Coworker's wife nearly got robbed/kidnapped/killed??

the possum · December 19, 2005, 10:30 PM

But the bad guys took off before they could carry out their plan, so we won't know for sure how bad things could have been. Here's the story.

Wife went to visit her father at a hospital in Saint Louis, and afterwards stopped for gas at a nearby station. The station was just off the Highway 40 on ramp, on Clayton Rd. for those who know the area. The place is lit up bright as day, and there were plenty of other people there at the time. She drove back by there with her husband, and he couldn't believe it happened in such a location.

She pulled up to the pump to fill the tank, and a van pulled up on the other side of the pump. (not sure if she had already filled her tank at that point, or just started, or what.) But then she noticed that the van did not have a gas flap on the close side- i.e., they had pulled up facing the wrong direction if they were gonna get gas. Two guys got out of the van, and apparently her spydie sense went off. Gotta give her credit for at least being aware and observant here. She ran back around and tried to get in the driver's side of the car, and the two guys chased her, and got ahold of the door before she could close it. One guy had both hands on the door trying to open it, and the other guy was pulling with one hand, and appeared to have a small pistol in his other hand. (I probably would have shat myself at this point.) She was screaming her head off, which alerted the attention of a hospital employee who was getting gas at the next pump. He hollered at the two bad guys, and started dialing his cell phone. When they saw him, they jumped back into their van and took off.

Turns out the van was stolen, and there were FIVE guys in it. Three have already been caught by police.

Her husband (my coworker) told her if something like that ever happens again, use the weapon in your hand first. Spray them good with gasoline. (he used the threat of this method to good effect himself once when he still worked in East Saint Louis) It was too late for that once she was already fighting them with the car door, but I say she should have floored it. Oh, wait, then again, I guess the car wouldn't have been running...

I dunno what else she could have done. Maybe just got the hell out of there the second she noticed they weren't there to get gas. (i.e., pulled up to the wrong side of the pump.) Then again, I've pulled up to the wrong side of the pump several times myself when driving my wife's car or something, so I may have rationalized my fear away too. Also keep in mind we live in Illinois where there's no CCW; she was just making a visit across the river. I don't know if she's the type to carry a knife or pepper spray or somethin'.

Eghad · December 19, 2005, 10:52 PM

gasoline bath would not be pleasent especially in the crotch area...

FirstFreedom · December 19, 2005, 11:11 PM

and esp. if lighted match is proffered as the bath's topper.

lucky lady - scary stuff.

the possum · December 19, 2005, 11:33 PM

Quote:

gasoline bath would not be pleasent especially in the crotch area...

I would think in the face and mouth/eyes would be more effective...

But a bullet can reach farther than a gas pump. Also note that she was aware. They knew she was aware. It was not enough in itself to prevent the attack.

They were scared off by the guy with the cell phone, but I doubt she could have produced a phone and dialed 911 in the time it took to run around the car. But she could have produced a gun... But then again, discussion of 9mm vs. .45 or revolver vs. auto seem kinda irrelevant when you can't carry any of 'em without risking a felony. (she has a career as a gov't employee, so I doubt she'd take such a risk.)

Sir William · December 20, 2005, 12:45 AM

If I read the story right, the police DID come and then found 5 suspects had been traveling in a stolen van? It is so reassuring to know that a report has the is dotted and the ts crossed after a stressful event. Where are the other 2 suspects? Was a weapon found? Was there video of the attempted carjacking? Deadly force would seem well justified in this instance. The spray of fuel to the face would be a deterrent but, dangerous for all. Kicking and screaming doesn't bring much attention. FIRE! FIRE! This would probably gain notice at a fuel station. I often suggest defleaing combs to women. These are steel delousing combs for domestic animals. They are good weapons and have a legit use.

the possum · December 20, 2005, 01:03 AM

I have only related what was told to me by my coworker. I asked specifically for some of these details, but I don't know if they have caught the other 2 guys, or if there was video footage, etc., as I have not spoken to him since.

I am sure the experience was rather eye opening to the lady, though again, I have not spoken to her about it either. Hopefully she will take some prudent measures on future visits. What exactly those measures may be, I don't know yet. Chances are if she ever has such trouble again, it won't be under the same circumstances, but honestly none of the "weapons" (i.e., pepper spray, combs, even small knives) that come to mind would really help a middle aged woman against five armed thugs, if they were determined.

Ares45 · December 20, 2005, 02:39 PM

Short of a firearm, nothing is going to help a gentle mannered middle age woman when she's up against 5 BG's. Good thing the BG's decided to run for it.

Thank God for CCW. If the body count had grown past two BG's or one of them decided to produce a weapon I would be forced to start thinning the gene pool.

Capt. Charlie · December 20, 2005, 03:35 PM

Just wondering. Do you think she was a random target, or were they specifically after her?

Double Naught Spy · December 20, 2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Coworker's wife nearly got robbed/kidnapped/killed??

Why the hype? Why not just say she was assaulted? That is the one crime that was definitely inflicted on the woman, but instead of indentifying it, you went the hypothetical route of other things that could have taken place. Besides, you left out one that is fairly common, carjacked.

BatmanX · December 20, 2005, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Why the hype? Why not just say she was assaulted? That is the one crime that was definitely inflicted on the woman, but instead of indentifying it, you went the hypothetical route of other things that could have taken place. Besides, you left out one that is fairly common, carjacked.

Wow. So cold.
Doesn't look like a car jacking - with 5 people?

CraigJS · December 20, 2005, 07:54 PM

Perhaps at first notice of something wrong she should have beat feet towards the station building. More people, more witnesses, more help? Very glad it worked out for her though..

Sir William · December 20, 2005, 10:15 PM

I am not certain but, if this is the location I am thinking of, there is a small concrete block attendant box only. There is a sliding drawer for transactions and a steel door and bulletproof windows. I don't believe that would offer much aid or any protection.

hso · December 21, 2005, 12:40 AM

If we assume that they wanted the car then the car may not have been the best place for her to go. If she had gone to the attendant or the other customer they would have been faced with the decision to go after her or focus on her vehicle splitting their reactions. They would have also been faced with being more easily seen by either the attendant or the other customer.

Her reaction was "normal", but perhaps not appropriate under the circumstances and certainly provides food for thought.

FirearmFan · December 21, 2005, 10:20 AM

Glad to hear she is ok. Five guys in a van doesn't sound like just a robbery. There a lot of other ways to go about robbing someone that are easier and don't bring a much attention. Either she was a random woman they wanted to harm and assault or she had been spotted by one of the guys and they took a liking to her. Either way I think she should be extra careful from here on in.

I know a couple of women who had been sexually assaulted when they were in high school and college. What was the statistic one woman attacked every four minutes. The trauma and mental scars it left is beyond words. And my girlfriend wonders why I get nervous when she goes running.

the possum · December 21, 2005, 07:34 PM

I really have no idea if she was a victim of random violence or if they specifically chose her for a reason. My guess (since I enjoy postulating as much as anyone) would be it was random or a matter of opportunity. I don't think she drives a fancy vehicle, and she does not quite fit the American "Barbie Doll" ideal of the womanly figure. And even if she did, the freezing weather prohibits skimpy clothing lately.

Quote:

Why the hype? Why not just say she was assaulted? That is the one crime that was definitely inflicted on the woman, but instead of indentifying it, you went the hypothetical route of other things that could have taken place. Besides, you left out one that is fairly common, carjacked.

Double Naught Spy-
I have to admit you have a valid point there. Any "hype" was not intentional. I suppose it was only human nature for me to ponder what could have happened, or what they were really trying to do, and I didn't even think of assualt. I was also perhaps a little excited/on edge when I origionally typed this, just after hearing about it.

Perhaps it could have been an attempt at carjacking, especially since the van they were driving was stolen, too. And if that were the case, then yes, it didn't do her any good to jump into the car first. But again, that's just hypothetical.

I am not familiar with the location myself. I do know that lots of gas stations in the city bolt their doors and do all their business through a little drawer thingie after a certain hour, but I'm not exactly sure what time it was when all this happened. From the story, I infer it was after dark, which is only about 4:30 or so now.

Today I saw her husband again for just a moment, and he said he didn't know if they caught the others yet. He said they were juveniles, but I don't think he really knows for sure.

December 19, 2005, 10:30 PM	#1
the possum Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 555	Coworker's wife nearly got robbed/kidnapped/killed?? But the bad guys took off before they could carry out their plan, so we won't know for sure how bad things could have been. Here's the story. Wife went to visit her father at a hospital in Saint Louis, and afterwards stopped for gas at a nearby station. The station was just off the Highway 40 on ramp, on Clayton Rd. for those who know the area. The place is lit up bright as day, and there were plenty of other people there at the time. She drove back by there with her husband, and he couldn't believe it happened in such a location. She pulled up to the pump to fill the tank, and a van pulled up on the other side of the pump. (not sure if she had already filled her tank at that point, or just started, or what.) But then she noticed that the van did not have a gas flap on the close side- i.e., they had pulled up facing the wrong direction if they were gonna get gas. Two guys got out of the van, and apparently her spydie sense went off. Gotta give her credit for at least being aware and observant here. She ran back around and tried to get in the driver's side of the car, and the two guys chased her, and got ahold of the door before she could close it. One guy had both hands on the door trying to open it, and the other guy was pulling with one hand, and appeared to have a small pistol in his other hand. (I probably would have shat myself at this point.) She was screaming her head off, which alerted the attention of a hospital employee who was getting gas at the next pump. He hollered at the two bad guys, and started dialing his cell phone. When they saw him, they jumped back into their van and took off. Turns out the van was stolen, and there were FIVE guys in it. Three have already been caught by police. Her husband (my coworker) told her if something like that ever happens again, use the weapon in your hand first. Spray them good with gasoline. (he used the threat of this method to good effect himself once when he still worked in East Saint Louis) It was too late for that once she was already fighting them with the car door, but I say she should have floored it. Oh, wait, then again, I guess the car wouldn't have been running... I dunno what else she could have done. Maybe just got the hell out of there the second she noticed they weren't there to get gas. (i.e., pulled up to the wrong side of the pump.) Then again, I've pulled up to the wrong side of the pump several times myself when driving my wife's car or something, so I may have rationalized my fear away too. Also keep in mind we live in Illinois where there's no CCW; she was just making a visit across the river. I don't know if she's the type to carry a knife or pepper spray or somethin'.

December 19, 2005, 10:52 PM	#2
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	gasoline bath would not be pleasent especially in the crotch area... __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member

December 20, 2005, 03:35 PM	#8
Capt. Charlie Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Steubenville, OH Posts: 4,446	Just wondering. Do you think she was a random target, or were they specifically after her? __________________ TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does *your* post make *you?* I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie

December 21, 2005, 12:40 AM	#13
hso Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2002 Location: Appalachia Posts: 170	If we assume that they wanted the car then the car may not have been the best place for her to go. If she had gone to the attendant or the other customer they would have been faced with the decision to go after her or focus on her vehicle splitting their reactions. They would have also been faced with being more easily seen by either the attendant or the other customer. Her reaction was "normal", but perhaps not appropriate under the circumstances and certainly provides food for thought. __________________ TANSTAAFL

December 21, 2005, 10:20 AM	#14
FirearmFan Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2005 Location: Philly Posts: 270	Glad to hear she is ok. Five guys in a van doesn't sound like just a robbery. There a lot of other ways to go about robbing someone that are easier and don't bring a much attention. Either she was a random woman they wanted to harm and assault or she had been spotted by one of the guys and they took a liking to her. Either way I think she should be extra careful from here on in. I know a couple of women who had been sexually assaulted when they were in high school and college. What was the statistic one woman attacked every four minutes. The trauma and mental scars it left is beyond words. And my girlfriend wonders why I get nervous when she goes running. __________________ "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway." -John Wayne 357. sig 229R HK p2000 in .40

December 19, 2005, 11:11 PM	#3
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	and esp. if lighted match is proffered as the bath's topper. lucky lady - scary stuff.

December 20, 2005, 12:45 AM	#5
Sir William Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2004 Posts: 3,261	If I read the story right, the police DID come and then found 5 suspects had been traveling in a stolen van? It is so reassuring to know that a report has the is dotted and the ts crossed after a stressful event. Where are the other 2 suspects? Was a weapon found? Was there video of the attempted carjacking? Deadly force would seem well justified in this instance. The spray of fuel to the face would be a deterrent but, dangerous for all. Kicking and screaming doesn't bring much attention. FIRE! FIRE! This would probably gain notice at a fuel station. I often suggest defleaing combs to women. These are steel delousing combs for domestic animals. They are good weapons and have a legit use.

December 20, 2005, 01:03 AM	#6
the possum Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 555	I have only related what was told to me by my coworker. I asked specifically for some of these details, but I don't know if they have caught the other 2 guys, or if there was video footage, etc., as I have not spoken to him since. I am sure the experience was rather eye opening to the lady, though again, I have not spoken to her about it either. Hopefully she will take some prudent measures on future visits. What exactly those measures may be, I don't know yet. Chances are if she ever has such trouble again, it won't be under the same circumstances, but honestly none of the "weapons" (i.e., pepper spray, combs, even small knives) that come to mind would really help a middle aged woman against five armed thugs, if they were determined.

December 20, 2005, 02:39 PM	#7
Ares45 Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2005 Posts: 211	Short of a firearm, nothing is going to help a gentle mannered middle age woman when she's up against 5 BG's. Good thing the BG's decided to run for it. Thank God for CCW. If the body count had grown past two BG's or one of them decided to produce a weapon I would be forced to start thinning the gene pool.

December 20, 2005, 07:54 PM	#11
CraigJS Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2005 Posts: 372	Perhaps at first notice of something wrong she should have beat feet towards the station building. More people, more witnesses, more help? Very glad it worked out for her though..

December 20, 2005, 10:15 PM	#12
Sir William Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2004 Posts: 3,261	I am not certain but, if this is the location I am thinking of, there is a small concrete block attendant box only. There is a sliding drawer for transactions and a steel door and bulletproof windows. I don't believe that would offer much aid or any protection.

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