Stop saying I should get a semi auto, I love my revolvers!

[peggysue]

44 AMP said it all.

[UncleEd]

Yes, AMP makes excellent points.

[jmr40]

It's not just about ammo capacity. The semi that I carry most often only holds 6 rounds. But I find it more concealable, lighter, and more reliable than revolves of similar size. But I have no argument with someone who prefers a revolver.

[Mike Irwin]

If you're not carrying a geewhiz that holds 13+1 AND at least 4 spare magazines...

You're suicidal and don't care about life.

Or so I've been told over the years...

[CajunBass]

I started off carrying a XD-9. You know what? Those big magazines are HEAVY. That went on down the road quickly.

Now I carry a J-frame airweight, and a couple of speed strips. The only reason I carry the speed strips is I've got them. Shoot, I even carry aluminum case ammo to save weight. I got enough of my own to lug around without adding to it.

Now, if someone else wants to lug around a box or so of ammo, or an anvil for that matter, it's ok with me.

[OldMarksman]

Posted by abowlieb:

I carry Six in my pistol and two speed loaders. That is more then enough for anything I will run into.

That would probably be true--if you had any chance at all of reloading twice during a defensive encounter.

I would not expect to be able to reload once until after the event is over.

Do u expect 10 armed people to come after you?

No.

As a matter of fact, I do not expect anyone to come after me.

Do you think you will need all those rounds to kill, stop or scare one person?

I have absolutely no idea. I may, or I may not. That will be determined by whether I have to shoot in the first place; whether a psychological stop occurs, or if is necessary to effect a physical stop; and how many rounds I have to fire to hit something vital that will effect that physical stop.

By the way, if one is attacked, all indications are that one will face two or more assailants.

Do they think it will be like the old west where u duck behind a car n shoot at each other for 30mins?

Not those who have availed themselves of any training.

And that brings up a very important point. Enroll in a good defensive handgun shooting course. See how you do with your handgun. You will find that is is nothing like "target practice".

Then try some FoF training with simunitions, or perhaps a laser training facility with the gun "loaded" with various numbers of "rounds".

Either should give you some idea of how often your six rounds will suffice (you should certainly expect them to get you to safety sometimes), except that with laser training, any shot counties as a stop, and that is rather unrealistic.

In one of the Personal Defense Network premium videos (I do recommend subscribing), you can watch a well known trainer engage two armed robbers in a very sort scan of time--seconds, in fact--in a laser simulator at a Gander Mountain Academy. He ended up firing nine or ten shots very quickly--quickly enough, as it turned out, but he did miss with some of them. And again, each "hit" counted as a stop.

After all of that, decide for yourself.

[TailGator]

Six rounds versus thirty is a false dichotomy. There is nothing wrong with carrying a revolver if that is what you are comfortable with. I used to carry a S&W 642 every day but I switched to a Glock 26 a few years back. My reasoning went like this: In real shootings, including but not limited to police-involved shooting, there are a lot of misses; a hit rate of 20% was being bandied about back when I was making my decision. And everyone outside of Hollywood thinks that handgun rounds are less than stellar stoppers, to the extent that you would be hard pressed to find a trainer that doesn't advocate double- and triple taps. So, combining those two figures means that a five-shot revolver has enough ammunition to deal with one attacker if everything stays at the center of the averages. If you have more than one attacker, or if you miss one too many times, or if your single attacker is not incapacitated by two shots, or absolutely anything else is in the bottom half of the field from which the averages arise, you don't have enough gun.

OP, I am not making fun of your or anyone else's choice of a revolver in saying this; rather, I am explaining my choice in response to your derision of folks who choose pistols over revolvers. It wasn't paranoia that made me make my choice - it was math.

[DA/SA Fan]

That's absolute hogwash Mike! 17+1 and 2 spare mags is plenty.

[OldMarksman]

abowlieb, I really do recommend taking a good training course; look into the I.C.E PDN Tour, Tom Givens who also goes on the road, a session with Massad Ayoob, Mike Seeklander....

If you are close to a Gander Mountain Academy, look into what they have, including their simulation facility.

Claude Werner recently said that one of the things about people who have not had training is that they do not know what they do not know. Heck, that's really true or all of us, and we all start out that way to a very great extent.

I was very lucky to have a friend who had taken a two day Advanced Defensive Pistol Shooting Course course recommend it several years ago. Fortunately for me, it had been pared down to one day. And it was local.

I was AMAZED at how it differed from target shooting. We fired fast at close targets (steel), and that was a lot different from the "target practice" I had been doing. I later attended the I. C. E. PDN course called Combat Focus Shooting. At Gander Mountain Academies, it is called Dynamic Focus Shooting.

If you are not yet ready for any of that, there is something you can do that can be an eye opener. Watch some recordings of the Outdoor Channel's The Best Defense episodes. They have a lot of tips about how to avoid being mugged, robbed, stabbed, shot, car-jacked, kidnapped, etc. As an aside, one little thing to look for is how many shots (usually four or five) Mike Seeklander puts into an attacker, and how quickly (usually about a second). Again, that should be an eye opener.

Some I. C. E. PDN videos would be worth your time,too.

I hope you find this helpful.

[cliffhangernlv]

The two times I had to fire I used 3 rounds and 2 rounds. Luckily I didn't have to fight the 3rd Army, just one guy each time. Used a Walther PP .380 the first time. A SW 357 the second.
If you want more ammo, great. If you don't, also great.

[abowlieb]

Good post oldmanmark. I had plenty of training while I was assigned to 1st mar div 2/4 Echo company from 1999-2005. Im very confident in my training n I kept it up to speed since I got out. Thx for the helpful tips tho.

[Limnophile]

Auto pistol fans were touting the advantages of their pistol's magazine capacity 100years ago when the worlds auto pistols held 7 or 8 in the magazine!

Because that advantage was substantial, as it remains so today.

And note that it wasn't until about a half century after that [the introduction of the Browning P35], that police generally switched to the auto over the revolver.

Bureaucracies are notoriously slow to change. Also, most people are trained to think deterministically rather than stochastically in the face of uncertainty, an example of which is the question, "How many rounds are needed to stop a random bad guy in a random shooting incident?" A great book on the subject is The Flaw of Averages: Why We Underestimate Risk in the Face of Uncertainty -- http://flawofaverages.com/.

A large capacity is a comfort, NOT a guarantee.

Carrying a handgun is all about comfort; it provides no guarantees.

Despite the constant FANTASY gunfights on TV, a civilian defending themselves has no business throwing a lot of rounds downrange at an attacker. Providing your own "cover fire" works in the movies, but in real life its a poor idea. Police have a large organization behind them, and that group (city, county, state, etc) will pay their legal bills and for damages they inflict.

If a reasonable and prudent citizen draws his weapon and starts firing the last concern on his mind will be legal bills and damages. At that point it is almost certainly a matter of life and death. Being alive and impoverished beats being dead and rich.

YOU and I don't have that. We are legally responsible for every round we fire, where it goes, and what it hits. Lots of us, knowing there is only 6, try real hard to aim.

The FBI reports their agents miss their targets 70-to-80% of the time during shootouts with bad guys. When I was shopping for my first handguns in the early '80s, when almost all LEOs carried revolvers, the reported law enforcement gunfight miss rate was 5 out of 6, ie, 83%. With hit rates of 17-to-30%, one doesn't need to be a statistician to realize that a 6-shot revolver is a suboptimal sidearm.

[Cheapshooter]

abowlieb, all technical, and philosophical reasons to get a semi-auto aside, I think the peer pressure you are under would be a great excuse to buy a new gun. A semi-auto to fit their approval. Heck, that's a more sound excuse than several I've used in the past. Besides, you don't have to actually carry it. It's supposed to be concealed, and you don't have to let your buddies know you are still carrying you beloved wheel gun. Just whip out the auto at the rang for some shooting fun, and be in with all the "big kids"!

[Skeets]

+1 for M.To each,their own.You paid for it and it's yours! Do as you wish.

[g.willikers]

Revolver folks just naturally like going around in circles.
They like short track auto racing, too.
They's funny that way.

[SPEMack618]

If I can't do it with nine rounds of .45 ACP Ranger SXTs in the gun, and eight more in a spare mag, I think it's just my time.

And hell, the Ladyfriend carries one of them new fangled M&P Compact 9mms, so she'd better be in the fight too.

That being said, Leslie Coffelt did it in one shot. With a .38 Special.

[Skans]

Anyway I guess the whole point is if u carry a semi auto dont look down on us wheel gun guys like we dont have enough gun to get the job done. Shoot whatever u like and be happy with it and allow the next man to do the same .

Ok. I carry a semi-auto. I really don't care what others carry. At least one revolver (on my to-buy list) has as much firepower as most full-size semi-autos and even more firepower than my little DB9 that I carry: S&W 627 - 8 rounds of .357 in a relatively compact (2.6" barrel) revolver. A little chunky, but compact for what it is.....would make a nice BBQ gun too!

[Grant D]

I think NASCAR fans like Smith & Wesson revolvers, because the cylinder turns counter clockwise!

I just got back from my LGS where I bought my wife a S&W Model 642 Lady Smith.
Now she can give me back my Model 637 so I can carry it instead of my square butt blued model 36, or square butt nickel model 37. I'd rather not put the holster wear on them if I can help it.

90% of the time I carry a J frame OWB, with a LCP bug. The other 10% of the time is with a semi auto, usually a LC9, or one of my 1911"s.

[JN01]

You're carrying too many rounds, you need a double barrel derringer.

You need to make your selection based on your criteria and opinions, there is no need to justify it to anyone else.

I always say..If 'ya can't gett 'er done in 6, 'ya better practice a bunch!

This spray-n-pray mentality with 15 or more rounds is not for me.

Who says that you HAVE TO spray and pray with an auto or that you CAN'T with a revolver?

[abowlieb]

JN01 Im guessing the assumption comes from people saying I need a semi auto because of its higher capacity. I mean if you arent in a war zone or LEO why is it such a must to carry 30plus rounds? Like most people said before me it doesnt matter what the next man is carrying but I hear it from people.

Then you get the FBI reports of 20% of hitting ones target. Which IMO isnt what you face in a SD siituation. These situarions are normally shootouts, guys ducking behind cars, or houses. Firing back n forth. SD is up close n personal with few rounds fired. Normally the BG is only a few feet away from u. With the intent of taking on a easy target. These are diffent then the situations a LEO will face for the most part but these are juat my thoughts. Hopefully I wont have to worry about it but if I am walking the streets, there will be a wheelgun on the hip. At home I have a Benelli nova tactical for that.

[JN01]

I don't take issue with the statistics regarding the number of rounds likely to be fired, but with the cliche that anyone who carries a high capacity gun is going to irresponsibly blaze away while anyone with a six shooter is a dead eye marksman who is going to carefully take aim every time.

It depends on the shooter, not the hardware.

[abowlieb]

I agree 100% with that bro!

[Axelwik]

If you shoot more than 3 or 4 rounds you could be exposing yourself to prosecution, or at least a civil suit for using it as an offensive weapon instead of a defensive one. It's also very irresponsible to, "spray and pray."

For the tiny chance that I would have to use a firearm in self defense, and the even tinier chance that I would need more than 3 rounds, I feel that my little 5-shot J-frame is more than adequate.

[OldMarksman]

Posted by Axelwik:

If you shoot more than 3 or 4 rounds you could be exposing yourself to prosecution, or at least a civil suit for using it as an offensive weapon instead of a defensive one.

Do you have a supportable basis for that assertion?

Have you ever availed our self of any defensive use of force training?

Have you ever attended a course on the subject of use of force law?

For the tiny chance that I would have to use a firearm in self defense, and the even tinier chance that I would need more than 3 rounds, I feel that my little 5-shot J-frame is more than adequate.

The chance that one may need to use a firearm will become completely irrelevant should that need ever materialize; most objective analysis indicates that the potential for needing more than three rounds in a defensive encounter is not "tiny"; and in the event, what one may have "felt" beforehand is completely without meaning.

[Axelwik]

Old... you shouldn't take yourself so seriously. I was stating my opinion, nothing more.

But I could certainly see a prosecutor, especially in an anti-gun state, making a case over someone emptying a few 15-round magazines in a public place.