Reenactors vs shooters. - Page 2

djdasher · July 22, 2013, 07:28 AM

Unfortunately, it's not only re-enactors. I have a friend who buys gun after gun. He tells me that he respects firearms, however his are among the poorest maintained that I can remember. He showed me a Colt .380 in chrome that he was carrying. The magazine was so rusted that I could barely get it out of the magazine well. He never batted an eye when I mentioned it. Totally oblivious to the need to maintain his equipment. Gees...

Hawg · July 22, 2013, 07:49 AM

Quote:

hmmm who doesnt want to pay 700 for a musket, 200 for a hat, and 900 for clothes, boots, etc just so that they can march in a line and make make believe as they "interactively live out someone elses intepretation" of something that happened 200 years ago?

I would have loved to have done it if I would have had the time.

Doc Hoy · July 22, 2013, 08:40 AM

It goes to the rationale that each of us use for being involved in the firearm associated life style.

There must be a dozen different reasons and I would say that primarily the reasons stem from the various pleasures we derive from the way of life.

I can tell you that depending upon what day it is, my love of the shooting lifestyle originates in at least four different places.

1. I like to fiddle with the firearms. I little light gun-smithing (if you can call it that).

2. I like the solace of shooting alone (I never ever shoot with anyone else present.)

3. I like the resourcefulness required to load the ammunition or to make the various components. Lube, wads, cards, bullets.

4. I like the process of making my products more consistent and then matching that consistency with results on the range.

5. I like the noise and smoke.

Notice I did not say much about the history. History is very interesting to me but apparently I am not willing to invest the time to get good at the history. Therefore, I would make a poor interpreter and consequently, re-enactment has little value TO ME.

Hawg likes the history.

Bill Atkins appreciates the beauty of the revolvers.

KWHI likes precision and consistent accuracy.

Fingers likes the collector aspect.

Mykeal likes sharing his expertise with others (To a certain extent I think we all do.)

Additionally I think we are all patriots with a unique appreciation for the real value in the 2nd amendment.

Just some thoughts.

Captchee · July 22, 2013, 12:10 PM

I have been rather reluctant to post to this topic , but here goes.

Myself I have been re-enacting in one for or another most all my life , my love of history is what got me started building muzzle loading firearms , long , long ago .
Some folks like the shooting aspect . In doing so , while they may not think of it as such , what they are doing is re-enacting the use of those old firearms by learning about them and studying the information surrounding their weapons of choice .
Then you have folks who enjoy both but shooting and the period dress . Thus they lean more to the shooting vs. the actual studied history even though they may in some semblance try and dress the part IE the western Rendezvous seen and IMO a who lot of the cowboy action events .

On top of that you have those who wish to dive even deeper into the subject and thus strive to recreate a time and lifestyle to as close a semblance as they can .
For those folks its a lot of times not about the firearms as much as its about the experience .
In fact for some , they don’t carry a firearm at all .
There are people who’s whole interest may be tailor work or period entertainment . For others its maybe the survival aspect .
I have one friend who’s main interest in re-enacting is clothing . He is a very fine tailor. Everything is hand stitched and must be of the correct material and pattern.
Another friend studies period entertainment, IE he studies the beverages , music … of the time .

For still others , the draw is sometime politics. Frankly that’s a subject that can be very interesting when one realizes just how much we all have screwed the pooch along the way .

For still others it’s a general knowledge and experience of the how and why things were done they way they were .

I would also have to agree that for those who do not use firearms as a base for their understanding , all to often those firearms are neglected . In some cases to the point IMO they would not be safe to fire a live round through , even though at one time the were built to do so .

When it all boils down , what they all have in common is the love of the experience for their area of study .

Captchee · July 22, 2013, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Additionally I think we are all patriots with a unique appreciation for the real value in the 2nd amendment.

Doc brings up a very good point that’s relative for many folks .

Yet at the same time how many people realize that the 2nd amendment was not actually written so close to the top of the list . The reality is that it was 4th on the list of importance . Amendments 1-3 were actually regulated the federal government .
it became 2nd after the rewrite

How many people today realize that the 2nd amendment was needed because our founding fathers were completely against having a standing army and that we did not have a active standing army in any context near what we do today tell after the US civil war.
that it originally stated ; to insure a free state

So maybe in the end what re-enacting does , is to try and give people some idea or at least a remembrance of what happened, why it happened and what the people actually faced and felt.
Frankly Imo its real hard once you have taken part in a good re-enactment , not to come away with a lot of understanding as well as a lot of questions .
Yet at the same time its often very easy to forget that your only firing blanks .

Standing on the side lines watching , is a completely different experience .
Thus one doesnt really know if it worth the money or not untell you actualy have the exsperiance then decide that you have to pay someone else for thier time .

Fingers McGee · July 22, 2013, 12:35 PM

Close Doc,

While I am a collector; I also like the history and use as well as the precision and accuracy - Why else would I spend my weekends in CAS competitions around the country?

SIGSHR · July 22, 2013, 04:54 PM

A big part of the appeal of reenacting for me is the emphasis on authenticity and period correctness-avoiding the dreaded label of "FARB"! The CAS people also insist on correct attire and looking the part,using firearms correct for the period.

Doc Hoy · July 22, 2013, 04:57 PM

Yes.... I was painting with a broad brush.

Hawg · July 22, 2013, 05:36 PM

Quote:

The CAS people also insist on correct attire and looking the part,using firearms correct for the period.

No, they don't. Dress just has to be close and if they went by correct firearms Rugers and Henry's wouldn't be allowed.

mehavey · July 22, 2013, 06:05 PM

If you want to hang w/ people who:

A. Care about the history
B. Care about the weapons
C. Care about the condition of those weapons
D. Care about shooting those weapons competitively as a team (which is why they care about the condition).....

Join the N-SSA

Fingers McGee · July 22, 2013, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSHR

The CAS people also insist on correct attire and looking the part,using firearms correct for the period.

That's NCOWS.

SASS and other unaffiliated clubs are not as strict. Snap front western shirt, jeans & boots will pass at any SASS match. You don't even need a hat in most shooting categories; but they are highly recommend to keep hot rifle brass from going down your neck.

n5lyc · July 23, 2013, 04:04 PM

I will say this, In my first post I only posted about the firearms as it is what mainly grated on my nerves.

But, there were others there, who took their aspect of the day more to heart.

There was a lady there and her daughter making shirts by hand, also a lady cooking over an open fire making biscuits in a cast iron dutch oven, another serving soup (raccoon soup, so they claimed, but I hate to tell them, that coon is not a white meat like the chicken breast that was in the soup. but the city folk didn't know any better.)

There was a couple of musicians there dressed in period clothes, with semi period instruments playing period music.

I asked one of the horse dudes about his McClellan saddle, (an original Union issue) he then gave me lessons about his and the others saddles, and their differences and histories. One guy had one modified to "confederate issue" with canvas skirts instead of leather, one even had an original Jenifer saddle. (the things you learn when you talk to an enthusiast on a particular subject.)

These are SOME of the reasons I like to go to things like this, to learn new things from someone with an entirely different knowledge base than the subjects i know about.

Some are there for the dress up, but even more are there because they feel very deeply about the historical era that they are re-living and trying to pass that knowledge and way of life and passion to another generation, or person.

mykeal · July 24, 2013, 06:36 AM

Sorry, I hate to do this, but sometimes it's necessary:

cavalry, not Calvary.

I mean this in a constructive way, not a critical way.

Hawg · July 24, 2013, 09:55 AM

Quote:

cavalry, not Calvary.

Cant believe I missed that.

n5lyc · July 24, 2013, 11:31 AM

And I hate the autocorrect feature on my ipad...
it does all sorts of things i don't want it to do...

But if it makes you happy.

Besides, I do like going to church.

Bill Akins · July 24, 2013, 12:50 PM

Depending on people's religious backgrounds, some may not have understood what you meant, but I caught your meaning N5lyc........

"Oh, the love that drew salvation’s plan!
Oh, the grace that brought it down to man!
Oh, the mighty gulf that God did span
At Calvary!"

Although I can't remember all the words, I remember singing that hymn in church as a boy. (Been a long time).

It is easy to misspell the two words their sound being so close (but not exact) and their spelling so similar. Especially for those who at a very early age learned to read "Calvary" by reading and singing from a hymnal before they learned about and read the word "Cavalry". I often accidentally default to writing "Calvary" myself when I mean "cavalry".
The easy way I remember to spell it correctly, is by remembering the mounted knight "Prince Valiant" who was called "Val". I just remember that the letters of "val" have to be together in the word, and that helps me to write "cavalry" instead of "calvary". But I still sometimes misspell it. Old repetitive reading comprehension habits are hard to break. And they spoke a great deal more about "Calvary" in church than they did "Cavalry".

.

mykeal · July 24, 2013, 01:52 PM

I suppose I should confess that the only reason I knew the difference was that I, too, frequently made that mistake, and was corrected many times. And yes, I do still make it, sometimes.

Bill Akins · July 24, 2013, 05:14 PM

The good book says "confession" is good for the soul as brother Mykeal has witnessed to us and testified brothers and sisters. (Can I get an Amen?) So before we pass the offering plates, and rise for the benediction, please turn to page 64 of our hymnals and sing "Calvary".

Deacon Bill will be happy to pick up the offering plates. The uh...church needs a stainless Rogers & Spencer so brother Bill can carry the "sword of the spirit" and bring the good word to those heathens (libs) in dangerous anti-gun country. The lord said, "let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one". Brother Bill doesn't have enough "swords", so dig deep brothers and sisters.

.

Fingers McGee · July 24, 2013, 06:40 PM

Amen!

**4V50 Gary** · July 24, 2013, 06:51 PM

Praise the Lord and bless the N-SSA.

Trouble with N-SSA is that they're not in California when I was there and they're not here in Colorado either. I'd love to talk history and shoot muzzle loaders. The only thing that would bug me is the wool uniform. Wool clothing in Colorado in the summer?

mykeal · July 24, 2013, 08:00 PM

Bless you, Brother Bill for that deeliteful service. I would dearly love to grace the plate and your acquisition of a stainless R&S with my few humble coins, but having just purchased two more 1860 Armies I find, alas, the larder is empty. I do hope the rest of the congregation can make up the difference as I'd hate to see you have to sell your garments - while that vision might lead to a 'religious experience' I'm not sure it's what the Lord really intended.

n5lyc · July 24, 2013, 11:03 PM

Making change in the offering plate...

I will leave my tithe in the plate for the good of the church of the N-ssa, but while I will place my Schneider & Glassick in the plate, I just might have to pick up the 1862 pocket police out of the plate..

Will I be condemned to hell for that?

mehavey · July 25, 2013, 06:29 AM

Rumor hath it that the archangel Michael still carries a `51 Navy.
I think his boss will understand the pining for a `62 Pocket.

Doc Hoy · July 25, 2013, 06:39 AM

Sam Colt did.

TemboTusk · July 25, 2013, 01:55 PM

I'm not a religious man, but the line

"Rumor hath it that the archangel Michael still carries a `51 Navy."

Conjured up a vivid image of Archangel Michael being such a badass that he does not need anything more than a sword in one hand a '51 Navy in the other!

You could make a movie with that visual!

July 22, 2013, 08:40 AM	#28
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	This is really a philosophical discussion, is it not? It goes to the rationale that each of us use for being involved in the firearm associated life style. There must be a dozen different reasons and I would say that primarily the reasons stem from the various pleasures we derive from the way of life. I can tell you that depending upon what day it is, my love of the shooting lifestyle originates in at least four different places. 1. I like to fiddle with the firearms. I little light gun-smithing (if you can call it that). 2. I like the solace of shooting alone (I never ever shoot with anyone else present.) 3. I like the resourcefulness required to load the ammunition or to make the various components. Lube, wads, cards, bullets. 4. I like the process of making my products more consistent and then matching that consistency with results on the range. 5. I like the noise and smoke. Notice I did not say much about the history. History is very interesting to me but apparently I am not willing to invest the time to get good at the history. Therefore, I would make a poor interpreter and consequently, re-enactment has little value TO ME. Hawg likes the history. Bill Atkins appreciates the beauty of the revolvers. KWHI likes precision and consistent accuracy. Fingers likes the collector aspect. Mykeal likes sharing his expertise with others (To a certain extent I think we all do.) Additionally I think we are all patriots with a unique appreciation for the real value in the 2nd amendment. Just some thoughts. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

July 22, 2013, 12:35 PM	#31
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Close Doc, While I am a collector; I also like the history and use as well as the precision and accuracy - Why else would I spend my weekends in CAS competitions around the country? __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

July 22, 2013, 04:57 PM	#33
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Fingers... Yes.... I was painting with a broad brush. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

July 23, 2013, 04:04 PM	#37
n5lyc Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2009 Posts: 180	I will say this, In my first post I only posted about the firearms as it is what mainly grated on my nerves. But, there were others there, who took their aspect of the day more to heart. There was a lady there and her daughter making shirts by hand, also a lady cooking over an open fire making biscuits in a cast iron dutch oven, another serving soup (raccoon soup, so they claimed, but I hate to tell them, that coon is not a white meat like the chicken breast that was in the soup. but the city folk didn't know any better.) There was a couple of musicians there dressed in period clothes, with semi period instruments playing period music. I asked one of the horse dudes about his McClellan saddle, (an original Union issue) he then gave me lessons about his and the others saddles, and their differences and histories. One guy had one modified to "confederate issue" with canvas skirts instead of leather, one even had an original Jenifer saddle. (the things you learn when you talk to an enthusiast on a particular subject.) These are SOME of the reasons I like to go to things like this, to learn new things from someone with an entirely different knowledge base than the subjects i know about. Some are there for the dress up, but even more are there because they feel very deeply about the historical era that they are re-living and trying to pass that knowledge and way of life and passion to another generation, or person. __________________ I make 2 predictions: ON THE DATE WHEN US TROOPS ARE ISSUED AN Energy Pulse Weapon, 1. The US Soldier will have on his person a version of the Colt 1911. 2. He will be aiming the NEW Weapon at someone carrying an AK. Last edited by n5lyc; July 24, 2013 at 11:31 AM.

July 24, 2013, 11:31 AM	#40
n5lyc Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2009 Posts: 180	And I hate the autocorrect feature on my ipad... it does all sorts of things i don't want it to do... But if it makes you happy. Besides, I do like going to church. __________________ I make 2 predictions: ON THE DATE WHEN US TROOPS ARE ISSUED AN Energy Pulse Weapon, 1. The US Soldier will have on his person a version of the Colt 1911. 2. He will be aiming the NEW Weapon at someone carrying an AK.

July 22, 2013, 07:28 AM	#26
djdasher Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Posts: 47	Unfortunately, it's not only re-enactors. I have a friend who buys gun after gun. He tells me that he respects firearms, however his are among the poorest maintained that I can remember. He showed me a Colt .380 in chrome that he was carrying. The magazine was so rusted that I could barely get it out of the magazine well. He never batted an eye when I mentioned it. Totally oblivious to the need to maintain his equipment. Gees...

July 22, 2013, 12:10 PM	#29
Captchee Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2013 Posts: 439	I have been rather reluctant to post to this topic , but here goes. Myself I have been re-enacting in one for or another most all my life , my love of history is what got me started building muzzle loading firearms , long , long ago . Some folks like the shooting aspect . In doing so , while they may not think of it as such , what they are doing is re-enacting the use of those old firearms by learning about them and studying the information surrounding their weapons of choice . Then you have folks who enjoy both but shooting and the period dress . Thus they lean more to the shooting vs. the actual studied history even though they may in some semblance try and dress the part IE the western Rendezvous seen and IMO a who lot of the cowboy action events . On top of that you have those who wish to dive even deeper into the subject and thus strive to recreate a time and lifestyle to as close a semblance as they can . For those folks its a lot of times not about the firearms as much as its about the experience . In fact for some , they don’t carry a firearm at all . There are people who’s whole interest may be tailor work or period entertainment . For others its maybe the survival aspect . I have one friend who’s main interest in re-enacting is clothing . He is a very fine tailor. Everything is hand stitched and must be of the correct material and pattern. Another friend studies period entertainment, IE he studies the beverages , music … of the time . For still others , the draw is sometime politics. Frankly that’s a subject that can be very interesting when one realizes just how much we all have screwed the pooch along the way . For still others it’s a general knowledge and experience of the how and why things were done they way they were . I would also have to agree that for those who do not use firearms as a base for their understanding , all to often those firearms are neglected . In some cases to the point IMO they would not be safe to fire a live round through , even though at one time the were built to do so . When it all boils down , what they all have in common is the love of the experience for their area of study .

July 22, 2013, 04:54 PM	#32
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	A big part of the appeal of reenacting for me is the emphasis on authenticity and period correctness-avoiding the dreaded label of "FARB"! The CAS people also insist on correct attire and looking the part,using firearms correct for the period.

July 22, 2013, 06:05 PM	#35
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,885	If you want to hang w/ people who: A. Care about the history B. Care about the weapons C. Care about the condition of those weapons D. Care about shooting those weapons competitively as a team (which is why they care about the condition)..... Join the N-SSA

July 24, 2013, 06:36 AM	#38
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Sorry, I hate to do this, but sometimes it's necessary: cavalry, not Calvary. I mean this in a constructive way, not a critical way.

July 24, 2013, 12:50 PM	#41
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	Depending on people's religious backgrounds, some may not have understood what you meant, but I caught your meaning N5lyc........ "Oh, the love that drew salvation’s plan! Oh, the grace that brought it down to man! Oh, the mighty gulf that God did span At Calvary!" Although I can't remember all the words, I remember singing that hymn in church as a boy. (Been a long time). It is easy to misspell the two words their sound being so close (but not exact) and their spelling so similar. Especially for those who at a very early age learned to read "Calvary" by reading and singing from a hymnal before they learned about and read the word "Cavalry". I often accidentally default to writing "Calvary" myself when I mean "cavalry". The easy way I remember to spell it correctly, is by remembering the mounted knight "Prince Valiant" who was called "Val". I just remember that the letters of "val" have to be together in the word, and that helps me to write "cavalry" instead of "calvary". But I still sometimes misspell it. Old repetitive reading comprehension habits are hard to break. And they spoke a great deal more about "Calvary" in church than they did "Cavalry". . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target". Last edited by Bill Akins; July 24, 2013 at 01:08 PM.

July 24, 2013, 01:52 PM	#42
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	I suppose I should confess that the only reason I knew the difference was that I, too, frequently made that mistake, and was corrected many times. And yes, I do still make it, sometimes.

July 24, 2013, 05:14 PM	#43
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	The good book says "confession" is good for the soul as brother Mykeal has witnessed to us and testified brothers and sisters. (Can I get an Amen?) So before we pass the offering plates, and rise for the benediction, please turn to page 64 of our hymnals and sing "Calvary". Deacon Bill will be happy to pick up the offering plates. The uh...church needs a stainless Rogers & Spencer so brother Bill can carry the "sword of the spirit" and bring the good word to those heathens (libs) in dangerous anti-gun country. The lord said, "let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one". Brother Bill doesn't have enough "swords", so dig deep brothers and sisters. . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target". Last edited by Bill Akins; July 24, 2013 at 05:25 PM.

July 24, 2013, 06:40 PM	#44
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Amen! __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

July 24, 2013, 06:51 PM	#45
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Bless the Cavalry on Calvary! Praise the Lord and bless the N-SSA. Trouble with N-SSA is that they're not in California when I was there and they're not here in Colorado either. I'd love to talk history and shoot muzzle loaders. The only thing that would bug me is the wool uniform. Wool clothing in Colorado in the summer? __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 24, 2013, 08:00 PM	#46
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Bless you, Brother Bill for that deeliteful service. I would dearly love to grace the plate and your acquisition of a stainless R&S with my few humble coins, but having just purchased two more 1860 Armies I find, alas, the larder is empty. I do hope the rest of the congregation can make up the difference as I'd hate to see you have to sell your garments - while that vision might lead to a 'religious experience' I'm not sure it's what the Lord really intended.

July 24, 2013, 11:03 PM	#47
n5lyc Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2009 Posts: 180	Making change in the offering plate... I will leave my tithe in the plate for the good of the church of the N-ssa, but while I will place my Schneider & Glassick in the plate, I just might have to pick up the 1862 pocket police out of the plate.. Will I be condemned to hell for that? __________________ I make 2 predictions: ON THE DATE WHEN US TROOPS ARE ISSUED AN Energy Pulse Weapon, 1. The US Soldier will have on his person a version of the Colt 1911. 2. He will be aiming the NEW Weapon at someone carrying an AK.

July 25, 2013, 06:29 AM	#48
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,885	Rumor hath it that the archangel Michael still carries a `51 Navy. I think his boss will understand the pining for a `62 Pocket.

July 25, 2013, 06:39 AM	#49
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	God did not make men equal... Sam Colt did. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

July 25, 2013, 01:55 PM	#50
TemboTusk Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2012 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 139	I'm not a religious man, but the line "Rumor hath it that the archangel Michael still carries a `51 Navy." Conjured up a vivid image of Archangel Michael being such a badass that he does not need anything more than a sword in one hand a '51 Navy in the other! You could make a movie with that visual!