Color case hardening

Pipefighter · February 12, 2016, 10:49 AM

Can anyone tell me how to get the color in steel. We are playing around in the shop trying to color some pipe for a bosses project. We have a torch and oil from the threading machine. I heated it and dipped it but didn't get what I am looking for. Can someone give me some advice on how to get the color. Thanks.

mete · February 12, 2016, 01:58 PM

CCH are oxide colors. A nice job is an art developed by years of trying ! Check gunsmithing books , maybe You tube .bring lots of patience.
Most of it is done by pack carburizing with some organic material included ,bone ,leather for example

James K · February 12, 2016, 03:17 PM

Coloring of steel can be done with a torch or with some mild acids, but there will be no actual hardening. The method described by Mete works, but requires some skill. Most industrial color case hardening today is done by using a hot cyanide salt bath, definitely not something recommended for a home or small shop environment.

Jim

Gunplummer · February 12, 2016, 05:39 PM

It is quite complicated. First you have to know what kind of steel you are using. You need a furnace that you can have some control over holding a set temperature. You need some type of recepticle that you can seal the steel in while in the furnace. As mentioned already, you need something with carbon to pack the steel in. This part alone is a lot of work if you go the old way. You need a large container to hold water to quench the steel in. It is not necessary, but I used to induce oxygen into the quench water. So a compressor would be nice.
If you only want to case harden without the color using a torch, buy some Kasenite. MSC and other supply houses carry it.

Pipefighter · February 12, 2016, 06:08 PM

I guess I thought it wouldn't be to complicated. All I was looking for is color. I heated to a dull red then dipped it in some threading machine oil. As it cooled some color came in it. A pink salmon and a little blue. I noticed there were places where I waved the torch and held it too long and it left white lines in it. It also made any grinding marks stand out. Also I was using A53 pipe.

**4V50 Gary** · February 12, 2016, 08:05 PM

Traditional recipe included:

Ground bone
Burnt leather

James K · February 12, 2016, 10:16 PM

To color using a torch, just polish the steel. Then with the torch set to a blue flame about an inch long, hold it to the item in spots or brush it slowly on the metal. That will color the steel, but with no actual hardening. Practice on some scrap steel and see how it comes out.

Jim

Gunplummer · February 13, 2016, 06:48 AM

Yes, bone and leather work, but you have to burn and crush down a lot of it to pack. Some bone fertilizer will work. If you don't care about hardness, you could try rolling the steel around in that stuff with a torch. I don't know, I never tried to color with out hardening. I tried adding all kinds of stuff and some did seem to change the color patterns. The really popular method the last few years is bone and charcoal, but from what I have seen, it does not bring out the bright yellow and gold colors very much. As mentioned earlier, cyanide is probably the best for color variation, but extremely dangerous to work with.

HiBC · February 13, 2016, 07:55 AM

Was it Brad Angier wrote a book on coloring etc,of metals?
Clyde Baker's book covered it,too.(Theseare OLD books,may be hard to find)
Oh,one more thing.

If you DO decide to try pack hardening with bone,charcoal,leather scraps,and maybe some salt or lime,for the colors....
You put it in a sealed box,and heat it up to carburizing temp,etc.

What you don't want to do is seal it all up in a vessel,like a pipe with two caps,where it will hold pressure.

Think about moisture,steam,and the pipe blowing up.

T. O'Heir · February 13, 2016, 01:05 PM

"...Traditional recipe included: Ground bone. Burnt leather..." Yep and literally baking the steel in that.
Doubt you'll get anything pretty with the steel in a pipe using heat. I'd find something to distract the Boss until he forgets the idea. snicker.
However, cold bluing will colour pipe steel though. And there are lots of formulas in Machinery's Handbook for colouring metals. All of which involve nasty acids and chemicals.

Gunplummer · February 13, 2016, 03:41 PM

I did not say "Stick it in a pipe and screw a cap on it". You have to be able to dump the whole mess into water. A clay seal around your "Lid" is fine.

HiBC · February 13, 2016, 04:59 PM

Gunplummer,did not mean to imply you did.
I just recalled a horrible accident back in the 60's in high school.Shop kidswanted to bend some pipe.Filled it with sand and capped it,then put it in the forge.It blew,put steel in the kids head.Sand was not dry.

Buzzard Bait · February 13, 2016, 06:28 PM

I would think the cheapest and most sure fire way to get good results would be to carefully wrap it up but it in a good box and send it to a professional who is experienced and has a shop set up to do that kind of work. From all I have read its not a home do it yourself type job
bb

Pipefighter · February 13, 2016, 08:31 PM

This is how the project turned out. You can on the end of the feet where I ground the capped ends. That was what I wanted to color. This goes in a man cave gun room. Don't blame me for the design.

Pipefighter · February 13, 2016, 08:39 PM

Obviously I don't know how to post pictures from an iPad.

F. Guffey · February 16, 2016, 11:02 AM

Color case hardening

I have a box of tempt sticks, that would be close to 46 tubes of what look like crayons. Does the OP want case hardening or color case hardening?

F. Guffey

Alex Johnson · February 17, 2016, 11:50 AM

True bone and wood charcoal color case hardening is not all that difficult if you have the right equipment. I routinely do it and have for years used it as a class project in one of my introductory manufacturing processes courses at UND. Though there are a lot of variables that come into play, this is our basic procedure.

Parts are polished to at least 320 grit by hand and than cleaned using denatured alcohol and allowed to dry. Meanwhile a 50/50 mix of wood and bone charcoal are combined. We use the charcoal purchased from Brownells, though there are other sources. We often wrap our parts with degreased black iron wire which can help with the patterns achieved.

My parts are packed in an inverted pipe crucible that sits on a steel carrier. I take care to make sure none of the parts are contacting the sides of the crucible and that the charcoal mixture is well packed. The parts are placed in the furnace and held at a temperature of about 1450F for at least two hours. Following this they are taken out of the furnace and dropped directly in the quench tank. Any air exposure will ruin the colors. This is an example of a project I did some time ago for a customer who wanted a really heavy throwing knife for hunting hogs. The casehardening actually isn't a bad heat treatment for such a knife.

One thing that people need to now is that if any of this is being used for a firearm you better have a good understanding of what you are doing. Improperly done you might end up with some really nice colors and a really dangerous, or wrecked firearms.

Gunplummer · February 18, 2016, 05:08 AM

What type of steel is that? That is really yellow for charcoal and wood. I used to induce air into the quench barrel. Stick an air hose in the bottom of the barrel with a bunch of holes drilled in a plug. I put it below the catch basket. This will help to give you more of a splotchy effect. I agree. Since Brownell's introduced their color case system, there are way to many people doing receivers that should not be.

Alex Johnson · February 19, 2016, 10:21 AM

The yellow is more from the photo than the actual part. Though it does have a good display of colors. The steel is just 1018 mild, though I have worked with other alloys. I don't go out of my way to add air to the water, but do add some water right before I quench which helps to oxygenate it a bit. I prefer the process of wrapping the parts in iron wire before packing because this greatly enhances the pattern and is much more consistent than airlines in the tank in my experience. I suspect some of the older color case hardening formulas actually added cyanide to the charcoal pack and this no doubt brought out some of the red colors.

Gunplummer · February 20, 2016, 04:02 AM

I tried adding seeds from apples, apricots, peaches, almonds, and all kinds of stuff that supposedly had cyanide in it. Did not seem to do much. I talked to one guy that was going to add some type of rat posien. I don't know if he ever did or not.

February 12, 2016, 10:49 AM	#1
Pipefighter Member Join Date: October 3, 2015 Posts: 26	Color case hardening Can anyone tell me how to get the color in steel. We are playing around in the shop trying to color some pipe for a bosses project. We have a torch and oil from the threading machine. I heated it and dipped it but didn't get what I am looking for. Can someone give me some advice on how to get the color. Thanks. __________________ You can shoot off of any horse one time.

February 12, 2016, 01:58 PM	#2
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	CCH are oxide colors. A nice job is an art developed by years of trying ! Check gunsmithing books , maybe You tube .bring lots of patience. Most of it is done by pack carburizing with some organic material included ,bone ,leather for example __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

February 12, 2016, 06:08 PM	#5
Pipefighter Member Join Date: October 3, 2015 Posts: 26	I guess I thought it wouldn't be to complicated. All I was looking for is color. I heated to a dull red then dipped it in some threading machine oil. As it cooled some color came in it. A pink salmon and a little blue. I noticed there were places where I waved the torch and held it too long and it left white lines in it. It also made any grinding marks stand out. Also I was using A53 pipe. __________________ You can shoot off of any horse one time.

February 12, 2016, 08:05 PM	#6
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	From Steele & Harrison's book on gonnesmithing Traditional recipe included: Ground bone Burnt leather __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 13, 2016, 07:55 AM	#9
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	Was it Brad Angier wrote a book on coloring etc,of metals? Clyde Baker's book covered it,too.(Theseare OLD books,may be hard to find) Oh,one more thing. If you DO decide to try pack hardening with bone,charcoal,leather scraps,and maybe some salt or lime,for the colors.... You put it in a sealed box,and heat it up to carburizing temp,etc. What you don't want to do is seal it all up in a vessel,like a pipe with two caps,where it will hold pressure. Think about moisture,steam,and the pipe blowing up. Last edited by HiBC; February 13, 2016 at 08:03 AM.

February 12, 2016, 03:17 PM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Coloring of steel can be done with a torch or with some mild acids, but there will be no actual hardening. The method described by Mete works, but requires some skill. Most industrial color case hardening today is done by using a hot cyanide salt bath, definitely not something recommended for a home or small shop environment. Jim

February 12, 2016, 05:39 PM	#4
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	It is quite complicated. First you have to know what kind of steel you are using. You need a furnace that you can have some control over holding a set temperature. You need some type of recepticle that you can seal the steel in while in the furnace. As mentioned already, you need something with carbon to pack the steel in. This part alone is a lot of work if you go the old way. You need a large container to hold water to quench the steel in. It is not necessary, but I used to induce oxygen into the quench water. So a compressor would be nice. If you only want to case harden without the color using a torch, buy some Kasenite. MSC and other supply houses carry it.

February 12, 2016, 10:16 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	To color using a torch, just polish the steel. Then with the torch set to a blue flame about an inch long, hold it to the item in spots or brush it slowly on the metal. That will color the steel, but with no actual hardening. Practice on some scrap steel and see how it comes out. Jim

February 13, 2016, 06:48 AM	#8
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Yes, bone and leather work, but you have to burn and crush down a lot of it to pack. Some bone fertilizer will work. If you don't care about hardness, you could try rolling the steel around in that stuff with a torch. I don't know, I never tried to color with out hardening. I tried adding all kinds of stuff and some did seem to change the color patterns. The really popular method the last few years is bone and charcoal, but from what I have seen, it does not bring out the bright yellow and gold colors very much. As mentioned earlier, cyanide is probably the best for color variation, but extremely dangerous to work with.

February 13, 2016, 01:05 PM	#10
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...Traditional recipe included: Ground bone. Burnt leather..." Yep and literally baking the steel in that. Doubt you'll get anything pretty with the steel in a pipe using heat. I'd find something to distract the Boss until he forgets the idea. snicker. However, cold bluing will colour pipe steel though. And there are lots of formulas in Machinery's Handbook for colouring metals. All of which involve nasty acids and chemicals. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 13, 2016, 03:41 PM	#11
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I did not say "Stick it in a pipe and screw a cap on it". You have to be able to dump the whole mess into water. A clay seal around your "Lid" is fine.

February 13, 2016, 04:59 PM	#12
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	Gunplummer,did not mean to imply you did. I just recalled a horrible accident back in the 60's in high school.Shop kidswanted to bend some pipe.Filled it with sand and capped it,then put it in the forge.It blew,put steel in the kids head.Sand was not dry.

February 13, 2016, 06:28 PM	#13
Buzzard Bait Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Republic of Texas Posts: 502	Pass I would think the cheapest and most sure fire way to get good results would be to carefully wrap it up but it in a good box and send it to a professional who is experienced and has a shop set up to do that kind of work. From all I have read its not a home do it yourself type job bb

February 13, 2016, 08:31 PM	#14
Pipefighter Member Join Date: October 3, 2015 Posts: 26	This is how the project turned out. You can on the end of the feet where I ground the capped ends. That was what I wanted to color. This goes in a man cave gun room. Don't blame me for the design. __________________ You can shoot off of any horse one time.

February 13, 2016, 08:39 PM	#15
Pipefighter Member Join Date: October 3, 2015 Posts: 26	Obviously I don't know how to post pictures from an iPad. __________________ You can shoot off of any horse one time.

February 16, 2016, 11:02 AM	#16
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Color case hardening I have a box of tempt sticks, that would be close to 46 tubes of what look like crayons. Does the OP want case hardening or color case hardening? F. Guffey

February 17, 2016, 11:50 AM	#17
Alex Johnson Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2000 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 812	True bone and wood charcoal color case hardening is not all that difficult if you have the right equipment. I routinely do it and have for years used it as a class project in one of my introductory manufacturing processes courses at UND. Though there are a lot of variables that come into play, this is our basic procedure. Parts are polished to at least 320 grit by hand and than cleaned using denatured alcohol and allowed to dry. Meanwhile a 50/50 mix of wood and bone charcoal are combined. We use the charcoal purchased from Brownells, though there are other sources. We often wrap our parts with degreased black iron wire which can help with the patterns achieved. My parts are packed in an inverted pipe crucible that sits on a steel carrier. I take care to make sure none of the parts are contacting the sides of the crucible and that the charcoal mixture is well packed. The parts are placed in the furnace and held at a temperature of about 1450F for at least two hours. Following this they are taken out of the furnace and dropped directly in the quench tank. Any air exposure will ruin the colors. This is an example of a project I did some time ago for a customer who wanted a really heavy throwing knife for hunting hogs. The casehardening actually isn't a bad heat treatment for such a knife. One thing that people need to now is that if any of this is being used for a firearm you better have a good understanding of what you are doing. Improperly done you might end up with some really nice colors and a really dangerous, or wrecked firearms. __________________ I thoroughly disapprove of duels. I consider them unwise and I know they are dangerous. Also, sinful. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet retired spot and kill him. - Mark Twain

February 18, 2016, 05:08 AM	#18
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	What type of steel is that? That is really yellow for charcoal and wood. I used to induce air into the quench barrel. Stick an air hose in the bottom of the barrel with a bunch of holes drilled in a plug. I put it below the catch basket. This will help to give you more of a splotchy effect. I agree. Since Brownell's introduced their color case system, there are way to many people doing receivers that should not be.

February 19, 2016, 10:21 AM	#19
Alex Johnson Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2000 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 812	The yellow is more from the photo than the actual part. Though it does have a good display of colors. The steel is just 1018 mild, though I have worked with other alloys. I don't go out of my way to add air to the water, but do add some water right before I quench which helps to oxygenate it a bit. I prefer the process of wrapping the parts in iron wire before packing because this greatly enhances the pattern and is much more consistent than airlines in the tank in my experience. I suspect some of the older color case hardening formulas actually added cyanide to the charcoal pack and this no doubt brought out some of the red colors. __________________ I thoroughly disapprove of duels. I consider them unwise and I know they are dangerous. Also, sinful. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet retired spot and kill him. - Mark Twain

February 20, 2016, 04:02 AM	#20
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I tried adding seeds from apples, apricots, peaches, almonds, and all kinds of stuff that supposedly had cyanide in it. Did not seem to do much. I talked to one guy that was going to add some type of rat posien. I don't know if he ever did or not.