Rifled Barrels and Buckshot - Home Defense

pinetree · January 31, 2010, 09:19 AM

Looking at 870's & 500's, 20g. I see a combos with the normal vented long barrel and a 20" or 24" rifle slug. I would prefer a 20g because I like this round and my shoulder is beat up. I shoot 12g out of a Beretta semi, for ducks, geese and clays, but the 20g (OU) for dove and quail. Being a hunter, I want this gun to be a field back-up gun hence the combo approach.

I am leaning 870 because the rifled barrel is 20".

Questions:
1. Are 18.5" barrels available for 870 or 500 20g?
2. I know rifled barrels sling shot, but does it really make a material difference at ranges under 25yds?
3. Can I shot plain slugs out of a rifled barrel or do they need to be sabot rounds? The sabot rounds are 3x the cost.
4. Or screw-it and go 12ga. (this would give me a back-up for my trips to Canada)

Grandpatime · January 31, 2010, 09:33 AM

here sort through this list

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/defa..._id=122&page=2

Lee Lapin · January 31, 2010, 07:17 PM

I wouldn't want to use a rifled barrel for buckshot in a defensive gun even at short range. In fact, I will say definitively that I WOULD NOT use a rifled barrel on a defensive gun with buckshot, given any choice at all in the matter. Rifled barrels don't just sling buckshot, they open up patterns in a dounut shape most of the time. That means the middle of the pattern is EMPTY. You hit everything but what you're shooting at. No thanks, that's not for me.

There are gobs and bunches of new and used 18-20" 870 barrels out there in 12 gauge. Not so much so in 20 gauge, because very very few riot guns get sold in 20 gauge.

Remington's Country Store has $59 18" rifle sight 870 smoothbore barrels with the Marine Magnum type satin nickel finish for sale in Closeout right now, till they're all gone. For 59 bucks I wouldn't care if they were pink. I bought 3 of them- they're just fine for my uses. I could give a dead rat if the finish matches on a working gun.

The cheaper/easier approach would be to go with a 12 and shoot reduced recoil loads if recoil is an issue. Or plan on buying a factory new full price short smoothbore barrel, if you want decent buckshot patterns. Brenneke is now making their KO non-sabot slugs in 20 gauge, and if they work as well as the 12 gauge version does, that'll do just fine for anyone who wants to launch slugs out of a smoothbore barrel.

fwiw,

lpl

zippy13 · February 1, 2010, 01:19 PM

Yes, rifled barrels are designed for sabots -- In for a penny, in for a pound. Since you don't want the spend the extra on sabots, stay with a combo with smooth barrels that will shoot bird and buck shot as well as conventional slugs.

russian hammer · February 2, 2010, 10:31 AM

North American hunter has a line up of 20g's in this months magazine... Plus there is one of the best pictures of a dead turkey I have ever seen on the cover

You might find something that is suitable for home defense.

E,T, · February 2, 2010, 10:42 AM

What is a sabot slug? Thank You

markj · February 2, 2010, 04:57 PM

A sabot slug is used in a rifled barrel, in a smooth bore shotgun you can buy a slug that simulates this.

MagnumWill · February 2, 2010, 05:35 PM

Yeah, look at the Judge- with a .410, it'll drastically open up patterns within a few feet-and the barrel's only a few inches long. I'm sure if you've got a slugster barrel, it would only exaggerate the pattern more. I've never tried it, but I would just stick to a smoothbore unless you're planning on hunting deer at longer range.

Dave McC · February 2, 2010, 06:59 PM

Sabot is pronounced as in sabotage.

The slug is inside a sleeve,usually of plastic, so it doesn't contact the bore and rifling. Some,in the right barrels, are quite accurate.

zippy13 · February 2, 2010, 07:55 PM

E,T,
A sabot round has a projectile that's smaller in diameter than the gun's bore. The sabot itself is a carried that supports the projectile as it rides the rifling. Once clear of the muzzle, the sabot detaches. With the smaller diameter projectile, higher velocities can be obtained than with bore sized projectiles. In sporting arms they are common in shotguns and muzzle loaders. Pronounced (să-bō') with a silent t, sabot comes from the French word for shoe. The use of sabots goes back to muzzle-loading cannons when a wooden, or metal, disk was was attached to the projectile. These days, sabot ammunition can be found in artillery and small arms -- in both smooth-bore and rifled applications.

Various sabots and a 120mm Armor-Piercing, Fin-Stabilized, Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) tank round:

E,T, · February 2, 2010, 10:33 PM

So in my Charles Daly smooth bore it is ok to use regular slugs for shorter distances? Am i clear on this? There's a lot of great info.out there. Thanks, E.T.

zippy13 · February 3, 2010, 06:46 AM

E,T,
For your CD smooth bore, it's recommend you use only shot or conventional slugs. Size your shot or slugs based upon your anticipated shooting environment. If you lack the experience, Google can find you numerous charts that give choke and shot recommendations.

Your gun can safely fire sabots; but, without rifling to spin them up, you won't approach their accuracy potential. If you've priced sabot rounds, you'll realize they're not to be used casually. Most sabot shooters have a gun, or a special barrel, that is set-up with a slug sight and zeroed. Once zero is set/verified, subsequent sabot shots are for kills.

You can safely shoot shot in a rifled (sabot) barrel, but it's not recommended. Your patterns will suffer and you'll be facing a major clean-up getting the lead out of the rifling.

Unfortunately, some new to shotguns are sold combo guns with a rifled barrel without realizing the consequences. What they really wanted was a short HD smooth bore. Sabot shooting is a specialized aspect of shotgunning. It's usually in response to state game laws (or local safety regulations) prohibiting high powered rifles.

darkgael · February 3, 2010, 07:07 AM

Quote:

I know rifled barrels sling shot

A related question. The expression "sling buckshot" is new to me. What does it mean when a gun "slings" a load? I am familiar with the torus effect on a shot charge fired from a rifled barrel but this "slinging" seems to be something else.
Pete

Scattergun Bob · February 3, 2010, 07:15 AM

Quote:

The expression "sling buckshot" is new to me.

You got me on that one Pete

. Guess we need to ask the guru Mr. McC.

Good Luck & Stay Safe

Lee Lapin · February 3, 2010, 08:41 AM

Sling.

That's Southern for 'throw.'

Y'all...

lpl

MagnumWill · February 6, 2010, 09:15 PM

yes- "sling shot" = "torus effect"

tlm225 · February 7, 2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

I know rifled barrels sling shot, but does it really make a material difference at ranges under 25yds?

Absolutely!!

At one of our department qualification shoots a couple of years ago the officer next to me on the firing line fired off his six rounds of 00 buck at the 15 & 25 yard line, achieving 3 pellet strikes (out of 54 possible) on the target. My target, positioned 5' to the side of his picked up 5 "extra" hits.

We learned that he was using a new rifled barrel that he had installed in anticipation of our being authorized to use slugs in the near future. Our range master asked me to try our his gun to eliminate shooter error. I fired one round at 15 yards and had no hits. I then moved up to 7 yards and fired one round, getting 3 of the 9 pellets on paper. That rifled barrel turned his shotgun into a true "scattergun", you just didn't know where they would go.

zippy13 · February 7, 2010, 10:56 AM

I fired one round at 15 yards and had no hits. I then moved up to 7 yards and fired one round, getting 3 of the 9 pellets on paper. That rifled barrel turned his shotgun into a true "scattergun", you just didn't know where they would go.

Yikes! There should be a warning on the side of the barrel, that's scary.

January 31, 2010, 09:19 AM	#1
pinetree Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2001 Location: Cumming GA Posts: 626	Rifled Barrels and Buckshot - Home Defense Looking at 870's & 500's, 20g. I see a combos with the normal vented long barrel and a 20" or 24" rifle slug. I would prefer a 20g because I like this round and my shoulder is beat up. I shoot 12g out of a Beretta semi, for ducks, geese and clays, but the 20g (OU) for dove and quail. Being a hunter, I want this gun to be a field back-up gun hence the combo approach. I am leaning 870 because the rifled barrel is 20". Questions: 1. Are 18.5" barrels available for 870 or 500 20g? 2. I know rifled barrels sling shot, but does it really make a material difference at ranges under 25yds? 3. Can I shot plain slugs out of a rifled barrel or do they need to be sabot rounds? The sabot rounds are 3x the cost. 4. Or screw-it and go 12ga. (this would give me a back-up for my trips to Canada)

January 31, 2010, 07:17 PM	#3
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	I wouldn't want to use a rifled barrel for buckshot in a defensive gun even at short range. In fact, I will say definitively that I WOULD NOT use a rifled barrel on a defensive gun with buckshot, given any choice at all in the matter. Rifled barrels don't just sling buckshot, they open up patterns in a dounut shape most of the time. That means the middle of the pattern is EMPTY. You hit everything but what you're shooting at. No thanks, that's not for me. There are gobs and bunches of new and used 18-20" 870 barrels out there in 12 gauge. Not so much so in 20 gauge, because very very few riot guns get sold in 20 gauge. Remington's Country Store has $59 18" rifle sight 870 smoothbore barrels with the Marine Magnum type satin nickel finish for sale in Closeout right now, till they're all gone. For 59 bucks I wouldn't care if they were pink. I bought 3 of them- they're just fine for my uses. I could give a dead rat if the finish matches on a working gun. The cheaper/easier approach would be to go with a 12 and shoot reduced recoil loads if recoil is an issue. Or plan on buying a factory new full price short smoothbore barrel, if you want decent buckshot patterns. Brenneke is now making their KO non-sabot slugs in 20 gauge, and if they work as well as the 12 gauge version does, that'll do just fine for anyone who wants to launch slugs out of a smoothbore barrel. fwiw, lpl __________________ Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order! Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.

February 2, 2010, 10:42 AM	#6
E,T, Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Location: South Ms. Posts: 37	rifled slugs&buckshot What is a sabot slug? Thank You

February 2, 2010, 05:35 PM	#8
MagnumWill Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Location: Central Colorado Posts: 1,001	Yeah, look at the Judge- with a .410, it'll drastically open up patterns within a few feet-and the barrel's only a few inches long. I'm sure if you've got a slugster barrel, it would only exaggerate the pattern more. I've never tried it, but I would just stick to a smoothbore unless you're planning on hunting deer at longer range. __________________ Those who hammer their swords into plow shares will plow for those who didn't...

February 2, 2010, 10:33 PM	#11
E,T, Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Location: South Ms. Posts: 37	Sabot So in my Charles Daly smooth bore it is ok to use regular slugs for shorter distances? Am i clear on this? There's a lot of great info.out there. Thanks, E.T.

January 31, 2010, 09:33 AM	#2
Grandpatime Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2010 Posts: 121	here sort through this list http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/defa..._id=122&page=2

February 1, 2010, 01:19 PM	#4
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Yes, rifled barrels are designed for sabots -- In for a penny, in for a pound. Since you don't want the spend the extra on sabots, stay with a combo with smooth barrels that will shoot bird and buck shot as well as conventional slugs.

February 2, 2010, 10:31 AM	#5
russian hammer Member Join Date: September 3, 2008 Posts: 27	North American hunter has a line up of 20g's in this months magazine... Plus there is one of the best pictures of a dead turkey I have ever seen on the cover You might find something that is suitable for home defense.

February 2, 2010, 04:57 PM	#7
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	A sabot slug is used in a rifled barrel, in a smooth bore shotgun you can buy a slug that simulates this.

February 2, 2010, 06:59 PM	#9
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Sabot is pronounced as in sabotage. The slug is inside a sleeve,usually of plastic, so it doesn't contact the bore and rifling. Some,in the right barrels, are quite accurate.

February 2, 2010, 07:55 PM	#10
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	E,T, A sabot round has a projectile that's smaller in diameter than the gun's bore. The sabot itself is a carried that supports the projectile as it rides the rifling. Once clear of the muzzle, the sabot detaches. With the smaller diameter projectile, higher velocities can be obtained than with bore sized projectiles. In sporting arms they are common in shotguns and muzzle loaders. Pronounced (să-bō') with a silent t, sabot comes from the French word for shoe. The use of sabots goes back to muzzle-loading cannons when a wooden, or metal, disk was was attached to the projectile. These days, sabot ammunition can be found in artillery and small arms -- in both smooth-bore and rifled applications. Various sabots and a 120mm Armor-Piercing, Fin-Stabilized, Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) tank round:

February 3, 2010, 06:46 AM	#12
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	E,T, For your CD smooth bore, it's recommend you use only shot or conventional slugs. Size your shot or slugs based upon your anticipated shooting environment. If you lack the experience, Google can find you numerous charts that give choke and shot recommendations. Your gun can safely fire sabots; but, without rifling to spin them up, you won't approach their accuracy potential. If you've priced sabot rounds, you'll realize they're not to be used casually. Most sabot shooters have a gun, or a special barrel, that is set-up with a slug sight and zeroed. Once zero is set/verified, subsequent sabot shots are for kills. You can safely shoot shot in a rifled (sabot) barrel, but it's not recommended. Your patterns will suffer and you'll be facing a major clean-up getting the lead out of the rifling. Unfortunately, some new to shotguns are sold combo guns with a rifled barrel without realizing the consequences. What they really wanted was a short HD smooth bore. Sabot shooting is a specialized aspect of shotgunning. It's usually in response to state game laws (or local safety regulations) prohibiting high powered rifles.

February 3, 2010, 08:41 AM	#15
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	Sling. That's Southern for 'throw.' Y'all... lpl __________________ Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order! Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.

February 6, 2010, 09:15 PM	#16
MagnumWill Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Location: Central Colorado Posts: 1,001	yes- "sling shot" = "torus effect" __________________ Those who hammer their swords into plow shares will plow for those who didn't...

February 7, 2010, 10:56 AM	#18
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	I fired one round at 15 yards and had no hits. I then moved up to 7 yards and fired one round, getting 3 of the 9 pellets on paper. That rifled barrel turned his shotgun into a true "scattergun", you just didn't know where they would go. Yikes! There should be a warning on the side of the barrel, that's scary.