Procedures for better accuracy?

cptmclark · November 20, 2007, 08:17 PM

I've been happily shooting my TC Hawkin for many years. I just replaced the barrel with a GM 28 inch twist (50 cal). I have found a hunting load that shoots OK. Now my request is for advice to improve on this OK accuracy.
I shot 100, 110, and 120 GO FFG charges with the 240 gr TC Shockwave bullet. I tested others, but none tested better than this bullet with these charges. I settled on 110 FFG, and it delivers 2 moa accuracy. I know, I know, that's plenty good for hunting. Nevertheless, I'd like to get better accuracy, just because I like to do that. (100 and 120 groups were slightly larger, but I shot only one group with each. They were consistent with no flyers, and shot to the same elevation.
I start with a clean oily bore from home, dry swabbed as dry as I can make it. (rem oil is my rust preventer and seems to leave almost no residue, plus will pass through the nipple for complete coverage.)
I swab between shots with a slightly damp patch and a dry patch. That keeps me from having to really clean it indefinately, during the range session. Occasionally I'll need two of each patches, maybe after five or more shots. I'm shooting at 50 and at 100 yards.
Naturally I'd like to get more velocity, but not at the expense of accuracy. Some have suggested "conditioning" with bore butter, but I'm not seeing how that would work with sabots.
All Ideas will be appreciated.

Hawg · November 20, 2007, 08:38 PM

the 1:28 twist is a fast twist for using conical bullets. Ditch the sabots and try Lee R.E.A.L. or Maxi balls or something of the like. You should also ditch the RemOil in your bore and use a natural lube like Bore Butter

K.A.T. · November 20, 2007, 09:11 PM

I have a TC Hawkens with the same barrel you have. I've been hunting with it for 10 years. I shoot the 348 grn. Powerbelt and the 320 gr. TC Maxi-ball. It will shoot either bullet without having to change the sights. I do use a felt wad over the powder when using the Maxi-ball. I don't use sabots, because the other two bullets are easier to load.

I was getting 3 to 4 inch groups at a 100yds. using loose powder. I would have a couple of shots within an inch apart then the next one would be out 3 or 4 inches. At that time, I was thinking that I was not packing the powder the same for each shot, and that was causing the difference.

I thought the easy way to solve this is to shoot pellets instead of loose powder, but the sidehammer is not designed to do that. I found that loading 20 grns. of loose powder first, then two 50 grn. pellets works perfect. My groups dropped to an inch and half consitently at 100yds.

There is a lot of bullets and powder I didn't try that could have helped I guess, but I was just playing around and found something that worked well in my rifle, so I still use it today. 20 grns. of loose pyrodex, two 50 grn. pyrodex pellets, 348 grn. powerbelt. I know it sounds crazy, but it works for me, and it is deadly on deer.

arcticap · November 21, 2007, 02:02 AM

I don't think that you should change anything.
You're shooting deer, not groups.
What if it's caused by your barrel warming up?
What if your sights limit obtaining better long range accuracy because the sights are cruder than using a magnified riflescope?
What if your barrel needs to be bedded in order to perform better?

Just think about how if you aim for 2 inches away from a deer's heart, your bullet may still hit it. Now that's what I would call accurate enough....

cptmclark · November 21, 2007, 10:29 AM

Thanks guys. I'll try the suggestions. About "good enough"; you are certainly right. However, if your passion is tight groups, then the game is not just about hunting. I do have it scoped (hate to see a scope on my beloved sidelock, but at 64 it lets me keep shooting well). Since making and shooting accurate rifles is my thing, I don't want to just "assume" that the good performance I'm getting is enough. Certainly I'll take it hunting with good confidence. Can't shoot better than that hunting anyway. HOWEVER I still apppreciated ideas about how to squeeze out a bit more accuracy, just cause I like to do that. Also, if some of you stinkpole afficianados have ideas about how to get more velocity (for flatter trajectory= a few more effective yards) without sacrificing accuracy, I'd like to learn about that too. (example: Has anyone tried the 200 gr bullets in the 28 inch twist 50 cal?) I don't have the formula for optimal bullet weight/length for twist. I'd need it for 44, 45, and 50 cal bullets.
So far, chronograph readings are going up linearly (sort of) with powder increases, so I know the complaint that it's just getting blown unburned out the barrel is not true, at least at these charges.

Much obliged

arcticap · November 22, 2007, 02:48 AM

This leading outfit offers different sabot sizes to better fit barrels of various dimensions. Trying out another sabot is better than buying another barrel!

Go to the bottom of the company's web page to read about their different sabot sizes for different bore tightnesses:

Quote:

If you experience accuracy problems with our standard sabots and hot
charges, the HPH Series is the sabot of choice for you.

The big difference between Black HPH12 and HPH24 is HPH24 is .002" smaller
in loaded diameter. Loaded diameter is a sabot with a bullet inserted.
With a .452 diameter bullet the HPH12 is .507-.508" diameter, the HPH24 is .505"-.506" diameter.
If you have a tight loading rifle you may want to choose the HPH24
or if you have a very tight rifle, consider our 3Petal-EZ.
However, if you shoot a Savage muzzleloader with smokeless powder the HPH24
may not fit tight enough to consistently ignite the smokeless powder.
The HPH12 is the stronger of the two sabots although both usually shoot very well with hot charges.
3Petal-EZ easiest loading MMP sabot.
Loaded diameter .502"-.504"

They also sell a Ballistic Bridge Sub-Base which "provides an Additional Gas Seal Cushion/protection of Sabot Base - Improved Accuracy!"

http://www.mmpsabots.com/

Another brand is Harvester Sabots:

http://www.harvesterbullets.com/

Here's some other sabots (Nosler may be rebranded and made by MMP):

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...30%20%43%41%4C

These are said to be among the most accurate bullets. Check out the Dead Centers among others:

http://www.prbullet.com/

I guess that you have your work, I mean FUN!, all cut out for you!

November 20, 2007, 08:17 PM	#1
cptmclark Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 432	Procedures for better accuracy? I've been happily shooting my TC Hawkin for many years. I just replaced the barrel with a GM 28 inch twist (50 cal). I have found a hunting load that shoots OK. Now my request is for advice to improve on this OK accuracy. I shot 100, 110, and 120 GO FFG charges with the 240 gr TC Shockwave bullet. I tested others, but none tested better than this bullet with these charges. I settled on 110 FFG, and it delivers 2 moa accuracy. I know, I know, that's plenty good for hunting. Nevertheless, I'd like to get better accuracy, just because I like to do that. (100 and 120 groups were slightly larger, but I shot only one group with each. They were consistent with no flyers, and shot to the same elevation. I start with a clean oily bore from home, dry swabbed as dry as I can make it. (rem oil is my rust preventer and seems to leave almost no residue, plus will pass through the nipple for complete coverage.) I swab between shots with a slightly damp patch and a dry patch. That keeps me from having to really clean it indefinately, during the range session. Occasionally I'll need two of each patches, maybe after five or more shots. I'm shooting at 50 and at 100 yards. Naturally I'd like to get more velocity, but not at the expense of accuracy. Some have suggested "conditioning" with bore butter, but I'm not seeing how that would work with sabots. All Ideas will be appreciated.

November 20, 2007, 09:11 PM	#3
K.A.T. Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: Gainesville,Ga. Posts: 80	Green Mountain Barrel I have a TC Hawkens with the same barrel you have. I've been hunting with it for 10 years. I shoot the 348 grn. Powerbelt and the 320 gr. TC Maxi-ball. It will shoot either bullet without having to change the sights. I do use a felt wad over the powder when using the Maxi-ball. I don't use sabots, because the other two bullets are easier to load. I was getting 3 to 4 inch groups at a 100yds. using loose powder. I would have a couple of shots within an inch apart then the next one would be out 3 or 4 inches. At that time, I was thinking that I was not packing the powder the same for each shot, and that was causing the difference. I thought the easy way to solve this is to shoot pellets instead of loose powder, but the sidehammer is not designed to do that. I found that loading 20 grns. of loose powder first, then two 50 grn. pellets works perfect. My groups dropped to an inch and half consitently at 100yds. There is a lot of bullets and powder I didn't try that could have helped I guess, but I was just playing around and found something that worked well in my rifle, so I still use it today. 20 grns. of loose pyrodex, two 50 grn. pyrodex pellets, 348 grn. powerbelt. I know it sounds crazy, but it works for me, and it is deadly on deer. __________________ Never mind the dog, beware of the Colt!

November 21, 2007, 10:29 AM	#5
cptmclark Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 432	Wisdom Thanks guys. I'll try the suggestions. About "good enough"; you are certainly right. However, if your passion is tight groups, then the game is not just about hunting. I do have it scoped (hate to see a scope on my beloved sidelock, but at 64 it lets me keep shooting well). Since making and shooting accurate rifles is my thing, I don't want to just "assume" that the good performance I'm getting is enough. Certainly I'll take it hunting with good confidence. Can't shoot better than that hunting anyway. HOWEVER I still apppreciated ideas about how to squeeze out a bit more accuracy, just cause I like to do that. Also, if some of you stinkpole afficianados have ideas about how to get more velocity (for flatter trajectory= a few more effective yards) without sacrificing accuracy, I'd like to learn about that too. (example: Has anyone tried the 200 gr bullets in the 28 inch twist 50 cal?) I don't have the formula for optimal bullet weight/length for twist. I'd need it for 44, 45, and 50 cal bullets. So far, chronograph readings are going up linearly (sort of) with powder increases, so I know the complaint that it's just getting blown unburned out the barrel is not true, at least at these charges. Much obliged

November 20, 2007, 08:38 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	the 1:28 twist is a fast twist for using conical bullets. Ditch the sabots and try Lee R.E.A.L. or Maxi balls or something of the like. You should also ditch the RemOil in your bore and use a natural lube like Bore Butter

November 21, 2007, 02:02 AM	#4
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	I don't think that you should change anything. You're shooting deer, not groups. What if it's caused by your barrel warming up? What if your sights limit obtaining better long range accuracy because the sights are cruder than using a magnified riflescope? What if your barrel needs to be bedded in order to perform better? Just think about how if you aim for 2 inches away from a deer's heart, your bullet may still hit it. Now that's what I would call accurate enough....