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Old December 3, 2006, 01:25 PM   #1
slimshot
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Join Date: November 18, 2004
Location: Springfield, IL
Posts: 39
New Guy Questions

Just getting started with my Ruger Old Army. Have settled on shooting 30 gr of real FFFg black powder with lubed felt wads and Hornady .457 round balls, that seems to work best for 25 yard accuracy. I also have a Taylor conversion cylinder for it and have enjoyed shooting my regular .45 Colt cartridges, and some BP substitute cartridges. Lots of fun and attention at the range!
My early questions have been answered and early experimentation has been productive, but here are my latest questions as I go along....

First, what is the difference between "regular" American Pioneer Products FFFg powder and their FFFg under the Jim Shockey's Gold label? All I could get last week here was a pound of the Gold for BP substitute use with regular smokeless bullets. It worked well but it was about five bucks more expensive than the regular label. Next time I'd like to save that $5.
Second, I've got some Wonder Lube 1000+ that I've been using to lube wads and coat the cylinder pin, etc. What is Bore Butter? Is it used for the same things, or should I pick up some of that to? Do either of them cause a problem with APP powder use? I'm being careful to swab out between use of smokeless, substitute, and BP.
Third, what the heck is TC's Number 13 bore cleaner made of? It sure seems like mostly water, and some white colored additive. I'm sure that plain water and something that I have around the house will do the same job. Does it have some special powers, or did I just buy a bottle of snake oil?

Thanks for all the help that you guys have been in the past.
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Old December 3, 2006, 04:29 PM   #2
sundance44s
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Join Date: February 6, 2006
Location: Hernando , Ms.
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Sundance44s

First off the APP loose powder is pretty puney in cap and ball pistols ..don`t sight in with it unless you plan on staying with it ..if you suddenly switch to Goex or Pyrodex P your POA will change . No lubes needed for useing the APP ..a little dash of cold water or windex on the cylinder pin every now and then will keep things running . I beleive only the price is different on their products ..i`ve had pretty much the same results with all their products ...I don`t like their 2F powder at all its too chunky ,.,.like limestone pebbles ...makes me think of crush or run . really hard to measure out .
Bore Butter is like canola flavored crisco .
T/C Number13 is the same as moose milk ...whats in it who knows ? it is all natural product so it works well with B/P and the subs .
Here`s the low down on what works and whats cheapest ... i use windex/no amonia for cleaning ...olive oil for oiling ...
When it comes to blackpowder and the subs stay away from oils that are made from petroleum made products ...they will get things all sticky with the fouling made by B/P and the subs .
for over the ball lube ..in the winter crisco ..can`t be beat ..in the summer i mix crisco and beeswax for a over ball lube .....the plain crisco gets runny in the hot summer weather .
wonder wads .... its a wonder they are still in business ... i don`t know any shooters that use them .......something for the new guys to try i guess .
Hope this helps ..enjoy your shooting ...very rewarding sport . shoot often.
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Old December 4, 2006, 03:18 AM   #3
arcticap
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Join Date: March 15, 2005
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 3,166
Wonderlube and Bore Butter are essentially the same product.

Here's a post about the ingredients of TC #13:

"T/C had once stated that the Number 13 Bore Cleaner is food grade. That is true to a point.

Check the back label. "Contains: Polydimethysiloxane in an aqueous solution. Non-Toxic"

Polydimethysiloxane is nothing more than silicone oil. Food grade in that it is sometimes used to lubricate food processing machinery. Last time I looked the FDA allowed up to 600 parts per million in any food that may have come in contact with the machine lube.

The liquid is at least 90% water and about 10% silicone oil.

This type of "lube" has also been used in machine shops during the machining of metal parts. Used as a combination tool coolant and metal shavings remover. It also acts as a rust/corrosion inhibitor on the parts machined using it.

Use it in a fouled bore and then try another bore cleaner. You will find that the Number 13 Bore Cleaner is sometimes marginal in its ability to remove black powder bore fouling. The silicone oil actually kills the wetting action of the water in which it is mixed. It is not an aqueous solution as the label states. It is an emulsion. It is this emulsion that allows it to coat the metal surfaces with a coating of silicone oil.

The fun part is the claim, "All-Natural". Prior to 1947 this polydimethysiloxane did not exist, at least in this galaxy. Dow-Corning developed it when they played with modifying silicone for glass manufacturing.
My joke with the buckskinners was that you know it is "all-natural" cause it comes from a Dow-Corning plant. These big chemical plants have tank farms."

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fu...p?post/332289/
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