Help. More Accuracy from my AR?

[Rangerrich99]

First things first. I'm not an expert rifleman. And I am certainly no expert with an AR (I'm a shotgun guy mostly). But I've spent some time in the last two years trying to improve my meager skills. I think I've made some headway, but it occurred to me that instead of going through the process completely by trial and error, I might ask the experts here for some feedback.

So I've decided to turn my Ruger 556E into a dedicated varmint rifle, mostly for prairie dogs, coyotes and possibly feral hogs. To that end I recently picked up a Vortex Diamondback 4x12 scope. Other than a bipod the rifle is stock. In this condition, I went to the range and after getting the scope/rifle zeroed, I shot 7 strings/ten rds each at 100 yds.

IMO, the results were satisfactory.

Best group measured .75 inches, dead center, 1.75 inches high of POA (from center of group). Largest group was 3.25 inches, 0.5 inch left of center, 1.5 inches high. Average group turned out to be about 1.8xx inches, 0.25xx inches left of center, about 1.5xx inches high.

Note: the trigger pull on this rifle is pretty heavy (according to Ruger about 8-9 lbs.). Time between shots averaged about 5-10 seconds.

Ammunition used: American Eagle .223 Varmint Tipped 50 gr.

All strings were shot from the bipod with a sandbag rest for the buttstock, from a bench.

When I increased the range to 200 yds, the groups opened up considerably. I won't bore everyone with all the numbers, but my best group turned out to be a 3 inch group about 0.5 inch right of center, 0.5 inches high of POA. The average of the strings was around 4 inches across.

Now to my questions:

Would a heavier bullet make a significant difference in my groups? I was considering something in the 62 grain range, though I've read on the Ruger forum that some are shooting 69 gr. with good results.

Would installing an aftermarket adjustable trigger be a better way to go towards improving accuracy? I found two companies that seem to have good reviews, the Elftmann Tactical Service Adjustable trigger, and the Geissele SSA-E Trigger Sys. Both systems offer 4 lb. pulls (not sure I want to go lighter than that at this time). The Elftmann also offers a 'sword' style trigger, but I'm not sure that this system would be appropriate for hunting.

I believe I can shrink my groups at 200 yds down to around 2-3 inches with a lot more practice and a better trigger or maybe a trigger/ammo combination, but maybe I'm just dreaming? Total round count through the rifle is around 3500 rds; the rifle is 5 years old.

I have a few other questions percolating in the back of my mind, but I figure we can start here.

Thanks in advance for all the replies.

[RickB]

A lot of emphasis is placed on the rifling twist rate of ARs, and how it relates to accuracy.
I was reading about the new "green" 5.56mm round being adopted by the U.S. military, and it was noted that group sizes were cut in half by changing from the standard M16/M4 twist rate of 1:7 to 1:9.
I have a 1:7, which should be best-suited for heavy bullets, but I've shot nothing but 55s in it, and have no complaints (low standards?).
If you are using mostly, or exclusively light bullets, such as 50 grainers, and you have a fast rifling twist, you might improve your accuracy by going to a slower twist barrel, or switch to a heavier bullet.

[MarkCO]

I'll assume that you have a 1:9 twist in your rifle, which is fine for the bullet weights you are shooting. That said, the results you are getting are likely close to the limits for your rig. Piston-Driven rifles are more difficult to get the accuracy potential out of the .223Rem 5.56Nato cartridges.

The Rugers I have looked at and shot have had decent barrel installation, so re-installing the barrel, which helps a lot of production ARs, won't likely help much.

Triggers have no affect on accuracy, unless you have poor technique, then they help mask it. But let's face it, no-one is perfect so a good trigger helps a little. I am not a fan of the Geissele, but there are a lot of good triggers out there. Based on your post, I might look at a CMC and call it good.

The ammo you have selected is pretty decent, but you will get better groups going to ammo like the Nosler, Black Hills or Hornady, with the associated increase in cost. Ammo alone may get you what you desire.

If you are shooting flat based bullets and getting 1.8" at 100 and 4" at 200, um that is about what to expect. The scope you choose, combined with your head position can give you as much as an inch of variation at 100 yards as well.

All in all, you are pretty darn close to the edge of what your rig can deliver unless you want to change uppers and optics. I doubt that a trigger will make much difference, but you will like it.

[Mobuck]

We've found that AE "tipped varmint" ammo produces some extremely good groups from 1-9 barrels. I'm talking .5" @ 100 yards.
My experience says the standard AR(ish) trigger is part of the problem. I don't mind a 5-6# trigger if it's smooth and predictable. I've used "match type" triggers but groups aren't much better than what I get from ALG triggers.

[marine6680]

A good trigger helps.

If the twist is 1 in 7, use heavier bullets. 62-69gr would work. Quality ammo may/should help.

[G.barnes]

I had the ruger 762. With the stock trigger I was all over the target. You could feel the rifle move slightly the trigger was so heavy. I installed a CMC 3.5# single stage and was constantly hit center after that. Bullet weight will make a difference especially the farther out the target gets.

[Rangerrich99]

Thanks guys. I think I'm going to start by trying some different ammo first, and start putting some $$ aside for that trigger. I just got off CMC's site, and their trigger is now neck-and-neck with the Geissele. Now I have to get in my research time.

[marine6680]

I love my Geissele... but the are a chuck of change.

[jeager106]

You mean a CHUNK of change don'cha?
Nothing wrong with your groups.
You will hit your game at the ranges appropriate for the caliber.
Triggers. Get a good one.

[Bart B.]

Triggers have a huge effect on the accuacy a given rifle can be shot with. The heaveir the pull, the more the rifle's aiming axis jumps off its intended point on the target. All that force is transmitted to the rifle when the sear releases and the trigger's finger lever comes to a stop. Simple physics. And nobody holds a firearm exactly the same for every shot, so the amount of movement the rifle points at will vary a tiny bit for every shot fired.

Consider the fact that the most accurate rifles fired have the lightest trigger pull weights; in small numbers of ounces. The mastering of a 4.5 pound trigger pull on service rifles used in competition is extremely important if one wants to shoot winning scores. And the 2-ounce pull on benchrest rifles shot in free recoil disturbs their point of aim about 1/500th MOA.

Consider the difference in an 8 pound double action trigger pull on a police service revolver to a 2 ounce one on a Hammerli free pistol used in the Olympics; just for grins. And you're trying to keep all fired shots inside 2 inches at 54 yards.

[tirod]

If trigger pull weight was absolutely an accuracy improver, it could be tested and exhibited in side by side comparisons. Unfortunately, it's not so easy.

And then others come along and refute the findings - like Mas Ayoob shooting a NYC 10 pound trigger in his Glock for a champioinship. Admittedly it's a tactical shoot, but still the trigger didn't keep him from winning. His expertise still came thru.

That was with a handgun, which is much more influenced by trigger weight than a rifle held up with the shoulder and supported on a bipod. Rifles don't move nearly as much as pistols do when pulling the trigger. Your breathing influences it more. All a light trigger does is surprise you by having a lighter stack weight.

Most target triggers also have very little travel, which is equally important in precision shooting. And a lot of AR triggers have a slack adjustment to remove it. That leaves you with a trigger that has almost no travel, with pressure building directly to sear release. That release happens when your sights are correctly aligned IF you are using the right technique of increasing pressure ONLY when they are.

Done right the firing of the weapon is not forseen - so you can't flinch, and you didn't jerk the trigger. That is why the pull weight of the trigger doesn't have as much influence. What target shooters get from the lighter weight is less muscle fatigue because of the long amounts of time they have their finger tensioned against the pull. A trigger with almost no travel, with a crisp break, is more important than what pull it is.

The tactical shooters are still using triggers in the 4 - 6 pound range, going to a .5 pound trigger in their work would be dangerous. If it's a shoot and move type competition, light triggers are unsafe. They are only recommended in square range position or bench shooting.

Therefore, be careful how far you go with a new trigger, as it may dedicate that gun to only one kind of shooting. With the 4x12 scope, it's already drifting to that purpose. Nothing wrong with it if it's expected and intended.

[tobnpr]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with some of the comments regarding the correlation between trigger quality, and the shooter's (not the weapon's) accuracy.

IMO, there's two very important distinctions with a trigger- one is pull weight, and the other is how clean, and repeatable the "break" is...

As mentioned, no one's perfect. A heavy pull- as Bart eloquently explained- will only exacerbate the sideways movement that's put on the rifle as the shooter's trigger press will force it to one side, or the other.

Knowing exactly when the sear releases is the second. Watching the crosshairs rise and fall with my heartbeat- it's critical that I know exactly at what point the trigger will break. Obviously, these effects are far more important trying to hit a 10" plate at 1000 yards than hitting the vitals on a game animal at 200. But, my guess is that a PDog at range is a pretty small target.

JMO, based on my own experience with triggers. I don't think the importance of a good trigger should be understated... as I also doubt you'll find any ranked competitors with 8 pound-pull triggers.

[Bart B.]

My first venture into competitive shooting was bullseye pistol. The major USN major command's small arms marksmanship instructor issued me a match grade M1911 and regular service ball ammo. I asked about getting some match ammo. He said I'd be issued match ammo when I could dry fire that M1911 with an empty 22 rimfire case sitting on its flat top front sight and it stayed there. Ten times in a row over 5 minutes. Why? - I asked. He said that's the first requirement to shoot good scores. If I couldn't hold the arm still when I shot it, why waste good ammo shooting it? Took me a while to do it. I also had to demonstrate I could keep my aiming eye open when the round fired in slow, timed and rapid fire.

When I started shooting rifle and was issued a 30-06 match grade Garand, he issued me match ammo with it. I asked about service ammo, but he said I'd already qualified to get it. Had I started with rifle first, I'd had to demonstrate the same trigger and eye control with a pistol as they're both in the same noise and 4-pound pull range and apply equally towards good scores with both.

In a training session, he mentioned anyone can tell if someone's got good marksmanship skills by watching them shoot. Not by looking at their target but by looking at their aiming eyelid and trigger finger. Neither should move at all when the round fires. No eye blinking nor finger flicking. If there's none of that, then it's worthwhile to look at their target.

[Nathan]

My advice for better accuracy. . . .

1) A new trigger would be a good start, but only helps if you are pulling the current trigger poorly.

2) If you are looking for 0-400 yard accuracy and willing to compensate for trajectory, I would suggest 40 - 50gr flat base bullets. You should load your own and fit the cases reasonably well to your chamber. Also, runout must be kept to a minimum.

3) A better rest. A concrete bench with a BR style FR and RR rest will be way better than a bipod.

[Rangerrich99]

"2) If you are looking for 0-400 yard accuracy and willing to compensate for trajectory, I would suggest 40 - 50gr flat base bullets. You should load your own and fit the cases reasonably well to your chamber. Also, runout must be kept to a minimum.

3) A better rest. A concrete bench with a BR style FR and RR rest will be way better than a bipod. "

First things first: thanks for the tips guys. I tried some different ammo weights (62 gr. and 55 gr.) last week, and even tried some 62 on some prairie dogs over the weekend. The results were mixed, but I'm attributing some of that to operator error. I had to re-zero my rifle with minimal ammo, time, and a gusty crosswind (up to 25 mph). Of course, in the field most of the dogs were beyond 300 yds, just to make things more challenging.

Now to the advice above. What exactly are we talking about when you say compensate for trajectory?

Also, what is runout?

And I agree with you about the bench rest. I was hoping to make do with the bipod and a couple rolled up towels, but after the frustrating day I had in the field, I found myself thinking the same thing.

Btw, can anyone recommend a good bench rest for an AR?

Thanks again.

[tobnpr]

Runout explained:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/techn...ncentric-ammo/

I think that for mostoff-the-rack AR's, bullet and case runout are non-starters. Seems to me that the action tolerances (or, lack thereof) would negate any time and effort spent trying to load ultra-precise ammunition.

Suggest you consider your bipod shooting form. Shooting off a bipod is not without technique as well, as you need to load it correctly for it work optimally.

[Nathan]

FR Rest
That is a good enough rest. Needs a rear rabbit ear bag.

Compensation for trajectory: You will need to adjust turrets or use a BDC to hit your target at longer ranges. This goes for wind also.

What 62 gr bullets? Penetrators are not an accuracy load!