28 Rounds vs. 30 Rounds( In a 30 Round Magazine)

[Gunslick]

To craig- In my training career I have found you don't have to "slap" or beat the mag into the magwell, firmly insert the mag and as your hand leaves it lightly pull down to make sure it did in fact seat. Also as your weapon goes empty it is a good practice to cant the weapon and quickly inspect the chamber to make sure it did in fact go empty and did not malfunction. When you have explosions going off and coms in your ear you wont "feel" the bolt lock back like you think you would, you would most likely try and pull off another shot where the trigger will not click it will go all the way to the rear, this is where you check you chamber quickly while simotaniously flipping the rifle to the left (assuming right handed) and pushing magazine release, this will get the empty mag out of your way and yes you should be going for your next mag and insert as quickly as possible which is much easier to do with the bolt locked back which it will be if the rifle did in fact go empty.

[rickyrick]

This used to be urban lore passed on by old NCOs back in the day. I don't recall any real tactical doctrine that instructed soldiers to download magazines, but I heard it a bunch over 15 years in the army.

As a civilian I loose interest in loading mags after five rounds, plus it stretches out my shooting session.
I do have a requirement, as a civilian, that all my mags function at full capacity or they get the trash can if they cannot be repaired.

[Gunslick]

Likewise

[Jimro]

gunslick,

Might be a cultural thing about seating magazines. Kraigwy used an M16A1 in Vietnam. I carried M4s in Iraq and Afghanistan (did my fighting with a handset). Pat Roberts was rather fond of the "push/pull" seat and check method for ARs, and other instructors too, but my experience is that it doesn't work well with a closed bolt, at least not with issued M16s and M4s. The slap works great if you are seating a full mag on a closed bolt to get the latch to catch, especially when you are "topping off" by replacing a partially used mag with a fresh one. With the bolt locked to the rear a firm "push/pull" works quite well.

The old "SPORTS" remediation technique still works, Slap up on the bottom of the magazine, Pull the charging handle to the rear, Observe the chamber area, Release the charging handle, Tap the forward assist, Squeeze the trigger.

Nothing wrong with the push/pull seat and check technique, but it's dang hard to unlearn muscle memory.

Jimro

[Old Bill Dibble]

How do ya' go prone with a 30 round mag, or move around corners if the rifle needs to be canted?
Like bamaranger sez, 20 round mags seem more useful.

I don't understand why you can't? The military does it every day.

28 is much better. Nothing like watching someone panicky banging their weapon butt against the ground in a fire fight trying to get that top round to chamber because they thought they were smarter... Or watching the magazine drop out after a top off reload because it did not seat correctly. Good times...not.

Unless you are military or LE it won't matter much though, military especially. After running around in the outdoors for a few days/ weeks the amount of dust and dirt that works its way into a magazine tends to gum up the works a bit. Once it gets running it is not so bad but getting the first round to chamber and start the feeding process can be a sticky problem. It does not want to compress as easily or feed as easily. If you don't run around outdoors for weeks at a time this is less an issue. It can still collect dust bunnies in the trunk or cabin of a vehicle.

When the adrenaline is flowing (like when you come to a realization that you need to do something or be killed) the fine motor skills degrade quite a lot. You may slam that magazine home but you may not register that it was properly seated. You may not even get a click if it is loaded with 30 rounds, it might just snake in there. Or it may not.

[Jimro]

In the prone with a 30 round mag is easy, the mag rests on the dirt and you use it for additional support. You can get lower with a 20 round mag for sure, but if you are in the prone, you should be behind cover, or looking for cover.

If you need to cant the rifle, or move around corners, you just do it. If you have a red dot mounted, you can actually switch to your non-firing shoulder with an M4 to assist in "slicing the pie" fairly easily. Causes the firing wrist to get tight a little, but once you are done moving, it's less than a second to get the butt stock back in the normal shoulder pocket.

A lot of competitors now are using the exaggerated C clamp grip in order to keep the muzzle on target to lower stage times. That raises the support arm shoulder up high and cuts off a good bit of peripheral vision, so I recommend people use a vertical or angled forend grip if they have long arms, and a magwell grip if they don't. Heresy I know, but getting people to shoot fast and accurate isn't a one size fits all solution, and it gets even more fun when you start talking handguns (seriously). If I were training people to win competitions, I'd definitely be going with the exaggerated C clamp grip.

20 round or 30 round magazines aren't going to make much difference. Either the rifle will go bang when you need it to, or it won't. Either you'll have a reload available when you need it, or you won't. And if 18 rounds of 5.56 doesn't solve the problem, an extra 12 rounds probably aren't going to be the answer either. Doesn't hurt to have the extra 12 rounds though.

Jimro

[Gunslick]

I served as well Jimiro. Thanks for your service. Also to the NAM vet. My uncle was in NAM. He was a tanker. He was a mean bastard but he was my idol growing up..miss him.

[TXAZ]

I've had a lot of 30 round mags, never had a problem with 30 out of 30