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August 20, 2009, 09:31 AM | #276 | ||||
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Originally posted by JohnKSa
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August 20, 2009, 09:35 AM | #277 | ||
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Again, this is much bigger than the shock factor. I, for one, am glad these two fellas did what they did - if only to spark the discussion and motivate some of us. It may have been foolish to some in the short-term, but these events and this debate reinforces the fact that we all need to be more active in changing the culture and attitude of this country around the second amendment. Then maybe, just maybe, seeing a rifle or gun openly carried anywhere won't be such a "big deal". Heck, maybe you won't even need to carry openly at a presidential town hall to make a point! BTW, I'm not singling anyone out with this post...just preaching to the "choir". BTW2, you can start by attending an Appleseed and becoming an instructor [/shameless plug]
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August 20, 2009, 09:49 AM | #278 |
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Never has the phrase "shooting yourself in the foot" been more appropriate. The people who post on these forums are a small percentage of gun owners, and an even smaller percentage of American's. The fact is that people ARE alarmed at a person walking around with an AR over his shoulder (or any other gun visibily displayed, when it's ONLY purpose is to make a statement). Nobody would be upset if the news was covering the opening of duck season and everyone had a rifle slung over their shoulder because it is appropriate for the time and place.
And not EVERY gun owner is entirely mentally stable. There's a guy I see at my range all the time. He's a Vietnam vet. He screams obscenities at the targets as he's shooting them, like "take that you slant eyed bastards", and "two to the chest, one to the head! See you in hell Charlie", etc. he refuses to wear eye and ear protection because "I'm not going to put them on when i have to light someone up for real!". The guy is nuts. I can see him standing at one of these rallies with his M1 carbine over his shoulder. This is going to explode in our faces. People like this are no friends of mine. Every one of my friends has asked me how I feel about this guy and if I would take my AR to a rally. The answer is a resounding NO. I think these people are idiots. The "Tree of liberty" sign is just icing on the cake. That, along with the presence of the gun, worn with maximum Rambo fashion in the mall ninja thigh rig, clearly stated what he meant to say. Of course he's not going to admit to that when he's interviewed. Last edited by Homerboy; August 20, 2009 at 10:07 AM. |
August 20, 2009, 10:31 AM | #279 | |
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Washington Post: "Leave the guns at home"
Leave the guns at home
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I hardly know where to start with this one, especially since the people he's screaming about came peacefully, participated peacefully, and left peacefully, in SPITE of repeated attacks ranging from attempts at physical intimidation to an outright foam-mouthed assault by Chris Matthews on his tv show.
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August 20, 2009, 10:40 AM | #280 |
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More references to the "gun lobby." Now maybe I'm going to the wrong ones, but I've never been to a single hotel or bed and breakfast that had a gun lobby. Or maybe it's a lobster that has pistol shaped claws, which I have also never seen.
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August 20, 2009, 10:44 AM | #281 |
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I'm really impressed by the race card... especially since the nicely dressed gentleman carrying the slung AR, who was shown so prominently on all of the news sites was, in fact, a black man.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/...protest.rifle/ Last edited by Fox1; August 20, 2009 at 10:45 AM. Reason: ETA: Link |
August 20, 2009, 10:49 AM | #282 |
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Interesting that race is brought up, as basically what the antis do to us is segregation. "Keep it at home" as to say "Keep away from us, we don't want that around." "What works in Wyoming doesn't work in New York/Chicago/California"...heard that one? They want "separate but equal."
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August 20, 2009, 11:03 AM | #283 |
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While I believe that the protesters at the event are supporting a position I agree with, IMHO their methods are tasteless and overwrought, and their actions are bound to bring strong negative attention to our cause. The administration's quiet acquiescence brings to mind the old political adage: When your opponent is committing political suicide, do not get in his/her way.
I would also support establishing a "No Loaded Firearms" zone around the President- say, a radius of a 1,500' or so. A sovereign nation has an obvious interest in protecting the safety of its chief executive, and such a zone would obviously be a "sensitive area" as defined in D.C. vs. Heller, and would therefore be constitutional. That said, I strongly, strongly disagree with the overall sentiment of the Dionne editorial. The fact that the men were armed is not a "threat" per se. It may be over-the-top, but the First Amendment protects their right to make statements that another person may find outrageous or distasteful.
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August 20, 2009, 11:41 AM | #284 |
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Perhaps we have a dividing line. People born after 68, and those born prior?
Perhaps the experiences in those time periods create just such emotional reaction to the presence of firearms around presidents? E.J. Dionne Jr.'s article overlooks, as do many others, including the media, that the SEIU (Who are they?) is using violence to intimidate at these meetings, and, it's not getting any press coverage. So, now that we have a dividing line, who should I vote for for congress? A 56 year old that says he supports the 2A, even though he's a doctor, or a 32 year old, that while he doesn't say he's 2A has been through Iraq? Last edited by Poseidon28; August 20, 2009 at 12:15 PM. |
August 20, 2009, 12:06 PM | #285 | |
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From the Washington Post article:
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August 20, 2009, 12:23 PM | #286 |
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The journalist is EJ Dionne
And while I will avoid going into a rant here, and will try to avoid making a purely political statement, I will say that I group the Post's Dionne with Paul Krugman over at the LA Times. Read a few of their editorials, the subjects won't really matter, and I think you'll find that the editorial cited in this thread is typical of either or both of them.
I don't think I've ever read an editorial from either man that I agreed with. Considering I read David Broder, David Ignatius, and Charles Krauthammer on a regular basis, and enjoy their insights (these three are dissimilar from each other), that makes Dionne and Krugman really stand out in a bad way for me. |
August 20, 2009, 12:28 PM | #287 | |||||
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Please go back, look at all the footage, pictures, and accounts, and show me where anyone even remotely, appeared to be alarmed at any of these events. (Save, of course, the NYT blatherings) The record shows that; not only were there no "Oh my gosh, he has a gun!!!" comments (other than Matthews) but even LE was well aware of all these protesters and even began to educate people about the protesters right to do so. Quote:
You do not seem to like people exercising their 1A rights; Quote:
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Maybe you feel you are supporting the cause by keeping your NRA membership? I am just puzzled at why you protest so loudly, over the otherwise "silent" protests of others ? Idiots ? Morons ? Really? Or are they simply the folks who put themselves on the "front lines" to promote the activism that is necessary to guarantee your own continuing freedom to "go to the range" or "pontificate" on the internet? Sometimes it is necessary to champion a cause, in an unusual manner, to keep it on the forefront. And sometimes people just stand on the sidelines, and yell at the action on the field.
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August 20, 2009, 12:39 PM | #288 | |
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I support his right to own that AR. I DO NOT support his insistence to carry it in an inapproarite setting, ESPECIALLY since his SOLE reason for doing that was to make a statement and get on TV. How much you want to bet he doesn't tote that thing with him when he strolls around Arizona? And my voicing MY distate for what these guys are doing is MY right. No distate for military veteran at all. MAXIMUN distaste for those who want to look like one. Halloween is still two months away. Mall Ninja's are clowns. Why did he choose THAT rig? And the Vietnam vet I see is nuts. No disaste for his status as a vet, just the fact that he has about 4 marbles rolling around his head. What "activism" am I involved in? I'm an NRA member. I have a job, a family, and a house to care for. My weekends aren't spent slinging my AR over my shoulder to get my face on TV. Guns are a PART of my life. They're not my life. Intention is what it's all about. My BS meter is PINNED when I see these clowns. They aren't "saviors" or "warriors for our cause". They're goofballs who are a detriment to our cause. There are so many better ways to get our point across, yet we put blinkey eyed dudes wearing a Cheaper than Dirt cheesey thigh rig on the altar and praise them? PLEASE! Last edited by Homerboy; August 20, 2009 at 12:45 PM. |
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August 20, 2009, 01:28 PM | #289 | |
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http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621
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August 20, 2009, 01:30 PM | #290 | |
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WildheismakingapointwellbeyondhighschoolmythAlaska ™ |
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August 20, 2009, 01:48 PM | #291 | |
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Orin Hatch and the NRA were right... we were gonna lose that case anyways. 2A is a 100% defensive fight. I'm gonna go buy another box of WWB down at Walmart now that I've done my due diligence and chest-pounded on an intarwebz thread. These types of people are the Rosa Parks of our movement, like it or not. |
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August 20, 2009, 01:56 PM | #292 | |
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Compared to some of the stuff I saw there all of the current stuff looks really mild to me.
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August 20, 2009, 01:59 PM | #293 | |
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Sorry AZ, there is a difference between civil disobedience in the face of unlawful or immoral conduct like Rosa Parks and safe little shock tactics for the look at me crowd. If those folks want to be Rosa parks, go march on San Franciscos City Hall with the guns, rather than playing mememeimsuchafeeedomfighter in gun safe Arizona. WildtheniwillagreewithyouAlaska ™ |
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August 20, 2009, 02:48 PM | #294 | |
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Homerboy
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I, for one, would be interested in seeing your ideas of how to better get this point across. Regardless of whether or not one agrees or disagrees with the actions of these two men, it seems to me that both were legally exercising a right secured to them under the 2nd Amendment; and apparently also recognized by the federal, state, and local law enforcement personnel at the events. Thinking about the 1st Amendment, I have often heard, "I may not agree with you, but will defend your right to say it to the death." (Paraphrasing Voltaire?) Perhaps we need a little more of that attitude when regarding others exercising their 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms.
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The lowest paid college major/degree in this country after graduation... Elementary Education. Now, go figure... Last edited by AZAK; August 20, 2009 at 02:53 PM. |
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August 20, 2009, 02:54 PM | #295 | |
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August 20, 2009, 02:55 PM | #296 | ||
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Last edited by Homerboy; August 20, 2009 at 03:04 PM. |
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August 20, 2009, 02:57 PM | #297 |
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I think the situation where a dozen people had rifles was a bad way to go about it,semi auto rifles are pretty offensive.The event where the man had a pistol on his leg was a better way to do it.Not in the hand and being a defensive weapon
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August 20, 2009, 03:00 PM | #298 |
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I personally would only carry a gun in an appropriate area that I see socially correct.I would not open carry a handgun exept for anywhere I would carry a rifle,such as a firing range or the woods
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August 20, 2009, 03:01 PM | #299 | |
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Peaceful demonstrations by gun owners outside courthouses where recidivist felons using guns in their crimes are released daily (or outside prisons where parole board hearing of the same are occuring). Most importantly, appointing spokesmen (or women) who don't give the willies to the rest of John Q Public. How about a Ivy League grad, captain of industry, politician, etc? Sure isn't some dude with an AR (don't you LOVE how the media continues to say ASSAULT RIFLE, even though it isn't? How about somebody with clout holding a press conference refuting THAT misnomer? My brother looked at my AR once and said "why do you have a MACHINE GUN?") Sending Elmer Fudd to be our representaive sure doesn't cut it. |
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August 20, 2009, 03:01 PM | #300 | ||
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