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August 19, 2009, 05:46 PM | #251 | ||
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Hmm.... Quote:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/...fle/index.html
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August 19, 2009, 05:58 PM | #252 | |
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Seeing hundreds of re-enactors with black powder guns doesn't raise a hair because of their attire. The same with seeing a cowboy at a theme park. It is something we are very used to. In most states, we never see a civilian walking around with a sidearm. As such, they are going to attract attention and intimidate those around them just by their presence. I once had my vehicle break down and towed to a garage where I had to leave it for repairs. I had to walk about 40 yards across the parking lot to my buddies' vehicle for a ride home while carrying an Uzi in plain view. The reaction of those that saw me was very interesting.
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August 19, 2009, 06:16 PM | #253 | |
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In my opinion, WI should be the next domino. Open Carry is already legal there and protected by the state constitution (and Gov Doyle even sarcastically indicated that he approves of OC). CC is not legal, and OC'ers are routinely harrassed by law enforcement.
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August 19, 2009, 06:51 PM | #254 |
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I don't think wearing a handgun or slinging an AR over you shoulder at a political gathering accomplishes anything remotely positive for gun owners.
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August 19, 2009, 07:06 PM | #255 | |
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August 19, 2009, 07:46 PM | #256 | |
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August 19, 2009, 08:23 PM | #257 | |
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I defend the right of the gun folks to make their statement, just as I defend the rights of nazis to march or the pro/con abortion crowd to wave pics of aborted foeti in front of pizza parlours or the Socialist Worker's party to wave pics of Che in Little Havana.... I find their messages equally trite and offensive. They aren't out to change minds, or engage in debate, or even foster debate.... WilditsalookatmethingAlaska ™ |
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August 19, 2009, 08:27 PM | #258 | |
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August 19, 2009, 08:27 PM | #259 | |
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August 19, 2009, 08:52 PM | #260 | |||||||||
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Originally posted by Glenn E. Meyer
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Originally posted by Wildalaska Quote:
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Originally posted by Tennessee Gentleman Quote:
As private citizens, what we ultimately want is for only those who wish us harm to be intimidated by our weapons. This concept obviously worked for Mr. Kostric as the thug in the youtube video, upon seeing Mr. Kostric's gun, decided to take his assaults elsewhere. Kostric's gun being present and visible acted as a deterrent and helped to prevent a situation in which it's use might have become neccessary. Originally posted by Glenn E. Meyer Quote:
Originally posted by Tennessee Gentleman Quote:
Originally posted by Hkmp5sd Quote:
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August 19, 2009, 09:12 PM | #261 | |
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August 19, 2009, 09:13 PM | #262 |
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i carry a gun all the time but i am just as worried about camoflaged extremists walking around with ar-15's at public political events as i would be seeing armed govt storm troopers marching down my street. i train in martial arts to protect my family and myself but i don't walk into a bar wearing a gi and black belt because it would be just asking for trouble. this isn't a bagdad market place, i don't want to see people at local flea markets carrying ar's or ak's and fireing them in the air because we have a 2nd amendment.
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August 19, 2009, 10:10 PM | #263 | |
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August 19, 2009, 11:25 PM | #264 | |||
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Excellent point, and I agree, the goal is becoming more reachable, it just needs to be done on a measured basis. Quote:
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August 19, 2009, 11:37 PM | #265 | |
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I don't care what they "think" of me but I do care how they vote and I know if they consistently vote against us it is not a good thing. I also know most of them do not own guns and so rather than give them a in-your-face attitude I want to either win them over to our side or at least have them be neutral on gun control and not help those who wish to take those rights away. I guess I am looking for results and I believe we will get them through our system. It is not a matter of me giving up any rights, I just don't want them taken away by a lack of votes while the choir is yelling "What part of shall not be infringed don't you understand!".
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August 20, 2009, 12:13 AM | #266 |
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The impression that I get is that it's not really about exercising rights as much as it is about protesting health care reform through intimidation.
If the political events were in any way, shape, or form related to gun control of any kind, perhaps open carry at such an event would make a more meaningful and relevant statement about our constitutional rights. To bear arms over health care reform is a different matter entirely, especially considering how volatile and poorly debated/reported it is. There is a particular focus in the media on irrational and belligerent opponents of health care reform. This, combined with other armed protesters who go as far as making implicit threats (tree of liberty posters) doesn't reflect well on on those who carried in Phoenix, and those who will in similar future protests. There may be some valid points about increasing the visibility and normality of open carry. However, I don't think this is the way to do it. |
August 20, 2009, 12:23 AM | #267 |
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I don't think anybody denies that what these guys were doing was legal, but that's a far cry from it being smart, or anything that should be approved of. It's a form of attention mongering, trying to create a public spectacle. Nothing more, nothing less--and it fosters a public impression of gun owners as being dangerous and obsessed with guns under all circumstances.
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August 20, 2009, 12:37 AM | #268 |
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The Libs don't get the fact that there are openly armed men attending a town hall where the President is slated to speak and there is absolutely no violence.
Conversely, there have been numerous cases documented in which unarmed (thank God) union activists from the SEIU have been assaulting people at town hall meetings. Arrests of citizens carrying lawfully owned firearms = 0 Arrests of unarmed SEIU members = 7
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
August 20, 2009, 12:50 AM | #269 | |
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http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/...protest.rifle/
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
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August 20, 2009, 01:34 AM | #270 | ||
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The overwhelming majority of the population of the U.S. (including gun owners) does not believe openly carrying firearms at high profile events such as Presidential Town Halls represents the private use of firearms in a positive light. Not even if no one is killed or hurt. It's upsetting and feels "wrong" to them. What's more, if they get upset enough and stay upset long enough they will push for laws to help them feel comfortable again and that will NOT be a positive thing for gun rights. Quote:
1. How it will be portrayed. 2. How many others feel. And that is not good for gun rights OR for the health care reform situation. How is it that everyone is forgetting the fact that carrying openly to high-profile events is NOT a new thing in the U.S.? The Black Panthers have been doing it for decades. The fact that the goals may be loftier does NOT change the fact that the general public is going to lump the two movements together because of the similar modus operandus.
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August 20, 2009, 02:00 AM | #271 | |
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August 20, 2009, 03:38 AM | #272 | |
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It seem to me that the mainstream media has not been a friend of the 2nd Amendment in recent times. Until someone formulates a reason for the media to change this stance, they do after all seem to always have the last word and can edit a nun's shopping list to sound like Hitler's daily to do list, I would suggest that the mainstream media is not the appropriate avenue to pursue change concerning the RKBA in the public mindset at this time. The mainstream media sells "Dirty Laundry", kudos to Don Henley singing this back in the day - 1982. If you want to change your world, maybe start out with your own little corner. Yeah, grass roots education. Get enough of your locals, especially the younger generation, to be aware of the 2nd Amendment (And the rest of our founding father's documents), and see and "feel" that it really is O.K. to see someone OCing in your "neighborhood", guns can put food on the dinner table, and also are a great form of discipline and recreation punching paper, and we are rolling down the right road. Give (Hypothetically of course) a baby, toddler, or pre-schooler, that have not been exposed to many opinions concerning guns, a firearm to look at and they have no fear. Children are educated as to "their" opinions on guns. To quote the musical South Pacific regarding "feelings and perceptions": You've got to be taught To hate and fear, You've got to be taught From year to year, It's got to be drummed In your dear little ear You've got to be carefully taught. Perhaps (adjusting my grass skirt and coconuts), we need to be active in educating those around us to what we believe are good values, starting in our own living rooms and working outward; including our beliefs concerning the 2nd Amendment.
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August 20, 2009, 05:30 AM | #273 |
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The problem here is that the negative portrayal of firearms is getting out, regardless of whether or not a law abiding citizen carries a gun. Every night on the evening news, we are assaulted by images and stories of criminals misusing guns. This is the image and the opinion that gets seared into Susie Soccermom's head.
Even when a television show portrays a citizen with a gun, it is never a good portrayal. The citizen invariably either kills an innocent by mistake, is quickly gunned down by the bad guy, or some other negative outcome. The media constantly portrays us as fools or incompetent. A law abiding, armed citizen, standing on the sidewalk not harming anyone, counteracts that negative image. If we never do so, allowing people to see that firearms are not always used for evil, our message and position are effectively silenced, and we concede the field to the opponents. The only message that gets out is this one: only cops and criminals have guns.
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August 20, 2009, 08:07 AM | #274 | |
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So? Quit relying upon the MSM to tell your story!
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By all means, openly carry in your local environments. Get like minded folks to do the same. Have "Open Carry" picnics at your local parks. Conduct open air firearms safety clinics. It doesn't start at the National level. It starts right here, right now, in your own home towns. |
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August 20, 2009, 09:04 AM | #275 | |
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