100 Yd pistol load - Page 2

Hammerhead · June 28, 2014, 01:35 PM

For IHMSA field pistol, I prefer 158 grainers for the 100 yard stage. The trajectory isn't that different.
I shot some 158 plated flat points over 5.5 Unique (~.38 spl load) yesterday at 100 yards from my .357, very happy with the results.

noylj · June 28, 2014, 10:40 PM

You should pull out a T/C Contender in 7mm TCU, .30-30, or .35 Rem--if single shot is allowed.
Isn't a handgun what you use to get to your rifle?

Nick_C_S · June 29, 2014, 01:48 PM

Quote:

I can think of no reason a wadcutter should become unstable at long range

From Speer #14, pg 873: "Wadcutters are popular for target shooting and are also very effective small-game bullets if the ranges do not exceed 50 yards. At greater distances, semi-wadcutters are better due to their superior downrange stability."

I just looked that up. I last read it some years ago. Over time, my mind managed to morph it into "wadcutters will start to tumble after about 50 yards for so." I suppose it is there via inference. At any rate, a wadcutter is not designed for long shots. And that's where my head was during the shoot last month.

My IDPA wadcutter round (actually a soft cast DEWC) averages 720 fps - just above power floor (708 fps). Tumbling or not, I'm sure there's a lot of drop over 100 yards ;-)

Hammerhead · June 30, 2014, 01:03 PM

Some commercial 148 grain hollow base wadcutter rounds will be 45º sideways at 50 yards, by 100 they are tumbling and very inaccurate. OTOH the Hornady 140 grain LFP 'cowboy' bullet will fly true to 100 yards at the same velocity.

**Unclenick** · July 3, 2014, 12:41 PM

That's the length of the bullet causing the issue, and guns that don't stabilize HBWC's well often do just fine with shorter DE or BB wadcutters, if they have the slow S&W barrel twist. I shot some Federal Match ammo loaded with HBWC's out of my then-new K-38, just to see how it would do, and at 25 yards they printed about 6" off bags. Not impressive. I'd also loaded some cast Lee Tumble Lube WC's at the time, and they cut the group size by just over half from the same bag setup. That probably was about all the gun was capable of at that time. It was before I reamed chambers and tweaked the timing and whatnot.

The main disadvantage of the solid WC's as compared to the SWC shape is the low ballistic coefficient makes it more vulnerable to wind and vertical stringing due to irregular velocity. The old revolver shooters often liked the S&W action best for tuning, but would put Colt barrels on them, both to get a faster 14" twist and because the S&W bores tended to be straight while the Colts would taper down very slightly toward the muzzle, which helps prevent a bullet from rubbing to a loose fit on the way down the tube. But those barrels would shoot even HBWC's well if you didn't drive them so fast that the bases blew out into skirts under muzzle blast. A lot of old timers said the Colt barrels would hold near an inch at 50 yards, when the Smith's would not come close. That's mainly the length of bullet being too great for the Smith's 18¾" SAAMI twist.

Nick_C_S · July 3, 2014, 04:43 PM

I learned a lot there Unclenick. Thanks.

"vertical stringing" ??

For my steel shoots and IDPA, I shoot Missouri Bullet Co's "PPC#2" BNH-12 148 DEWC. For practice, I shoot a hardcast version.

Both are extremely accurate - they go right where I point them, every time. At least at "normal" ranges - as opposed to my OP. I'm very pleased with the recipe. I'm getting SD's in the 5-6 fps neighborhood repeatedly, with 10-round samples.

**Unclenick** · July 3, 2014, 04:47 PM

Nick,

The vertical stringing referenced my earlier post and I meant it to apply only to targets far enough away that the trajectory arc gets steep. I should have reiterated that.

Nick_C_S · July 3, 2014, 05:54 PM

Looks like it's a term used more in the rifle world (I have no long guns). It was new to me. There's always good stuff to learn on TFL :-)

**Unclenick** · July 4, 2014, 09:32 PM

It will happen with handguns, too, but at a closer ranges than with rifles. It just means the bullet holes tend to print a group that's a string of holes dispersed mainly on a vertical line. Get really far away, like shooting at plank squares six hundred yards off with a revolver, and that will turn into a line along the ground fore and aft of the target between hits. Not exactly precision grouping, but fun to try to do. Sort of like I imagine English long bowmen must have felt estimating range of fall with arrows from three or four hundred yards.

July 3, 2014, 12:41 PM	#30
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	That's the length of the bullet causing the issue, and guns that don't stabilize HBWC's well often do just fine with shorter DE or BB wadcutters, if they have the slow S&W barrel twist. I shot some Federal Match ammo loaded with HBWC's out of my then-new K-38, just to see how it would do, and at 25 yards they printed about 6" off bags. Not impressive. I'd also loaded some cast Lee Tumble Lube WC's at the time, and they cut the group size by just over half from the same bag setup. That probably was about all the gun was capable of at that time. It was before I reamed chambers and tweaked the timing and whatnot. The main disadvantage of the solid WC's as compared to the SWC shape is the low ballistic coefficient makes it more vulnerable to wind and vertical stringing due to irregular velocity. The old revolver shooters often liked the S&W action best for tuning, but would put Colt barrels on them, both to get a faster 14" twist and because the S&W bores tended to be straight while the Colts would taper down very slightly toward the muzzle, which helps prevent a bullet from rubbing to a loose fit on the way down the tube. But those barrels would shoot even HBWC's well if you didn't drive them so fast that the bases blew out into skirts under muzzle blast. A lot of old timers said the Colt barrels would hold near an inch at 50 yards, when the Smith's would not come close. That's mainly the length of bullet being too great for the Smith's 18¾" SAAMI twist. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 3, 2014, 04:43 PM	#31
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	I learned a lot there Unclenick. Thanks. "vertical stringing" ?? For my steel shoots and IDPA, I shoot Missouri Bullet Co's "PPC#2" BNH-12 148 DEWC. For practice, I shoot a hardcast version. Both are extremely accurate - they go right where I point them, every time. At least at "normal" ranges - as opposed to my OP. I'm very pleased with the recipe. I'm getting SD's in the 5-6 fps neighborhood repeatedly, with 10-round samples. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

July 3, 2014, 04:47 PM	#32
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Nick, The vertical stringing referenced my earlier post and I meant it to apply only to targets far enough away that the trajectory arc gets steep. I should have reiterated that. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 3, 2014, 05:54 PM	#33
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Looks like it's a term used more in the rifle world (I have no long guns). It was new to me. There's always good stuff to learn on TFL :-) __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

July 4, 2014, 09:32 PM	#34
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	It will happen with handguns, too, but at a closer ranges than with rifles. It just means the bullet holes tend to print a group that's a string of holes dispersed mainly on a vertical line. Get really far away, like shooting at plank squares six hundred yards off with a revolver, and that will turn into a line along the ground fore and aft of the target between hits. Not exactly precision grouping, but fun to try to do. Sort of like I imagine English long bowmen must have felt estimating range of fall with arrows from three or four hundred yards. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 28, 2014, 01:35 PM	#26
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	For IHMSA field pistol, I prefer 158 grainers for the 100 yard stage. The trajectory isn't that different. I shot some 158 plated flat points over 5.5 Unique (~.38 spl load) yesterday at 100 yards from my .357, very happy with the results.

June 28, 2014, 10:40 PM	#27
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	You should pull out a T/C Contender in 7mm TCU, .30-30, or .35 Rem--if single shot is allowed. Isn't a handgun what you use to get to your rifle?

June 30, 2014, 01:03 PM	#29
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	Some commercial 148 grain hollow base wadcutter rounds will be 45º sideways at 50 yards, by 100 they are tumbling and very inaccurate. OTOH the Hornady 140 grain LFP 'cowboy' bullet will fly true to 100 yards at the same velocity.