CZ Trigger feedback....Normal?

[redlightrich]

Hello, I have just picked up a CZ 75D Compact. I wanted something a little lighter and smaller than my 75 SP01, (which I love, but man is it big and heavy) in case I move from this restrictive state and want to carry.

Anyway, weighing in at 24oz, I take my new compact to the range, and took with me 100 rounds of 115g ammo. All factory made.

Anyway, being this is my first decocker gun, I wanted to try it. One thing I noticed is when I fire the first shot after decocking it, there is what appears harsh feedback to the trigger. It actually makes my trigger finger sting. The subsequent single action shots are fine.

I have not yet tried to rack the slide, manually release the hammer and fire double action from that position, but I did compare decocked vs single action multiple times. I took a brief break after 50 rounds, and when the line went hot, the same condition existed.

I certainly understand that this gun being lighter will feedback more than my very heavy SP01, but why is it so pronounced after the decocker was used. I have zero complaints about how the gun reacts in single action ( actually this gun, with a 3+ inch barrel is very accurate and handles well). I can absolutely live with the first round being "harsh", as I have experienced worse things. I would just like to understand what is actually occurring here.

Does anyone have any ideas? I don't seek to change anything, and I will not modify the pistol based on this, I am just curious.

By the way, as usual, CZ produces a very nice product. Yes, it is finished in a very utilitarian way. It isn't fancy or shiny. It is about as plain as can be, but always, it is very well made. You get the distinct feeling that this gun will last for a very long time. No failures of any type on either of my CZ's. Very reliable feeding and ejecting. Also, CGW sells a host of items to slick it up a bit if you want.

Thank you for any info you can provide on the first round feedback

Rich

[Idaho 45 Vaquero]

I have a CZ-75BD full-size. The double action trigger pull is a bit harsh, but I never noticed it to be really any harsher than any other double action automatic trigger. Mine has serrations on the trigger and if I shoot it a while, those my rub the joints on my finger a little red. Also, you have a lighter smaller gun so your hand might not have as much to grip onto.

Personally, with double action-single action pistols even those with a decocker, I never really use the double action trigger. I always manually cock my hammer back, even when doing tactical speed shooting, or drawing from my holster. I was raised on single action only revolvers, so cocking a hammer is just second nature to me.

[g.willikers]

Is there anything actually normal about a pistol that changes from double action to single action with successive pulls of the trigger?
Kind of weird in the first place, ain't it?

[Walt Sherrill]

I have heard of a number of folks who talk about experiencing the sort of "stinging" you've written about with CZs -- primarily in the compact models.

I've had a bunch of CZs -- 20+ -- and have never experienced it, but believe that it does occur, as it's mentioned from time to time on forums like this.

It's not USUAL and it's not appropriate, and I suspect that it can be easily remedied.

You might try visiting the CZ Forum [ http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?board=74.0 ] or call CZ's customer service line (at CZ-USA) -- I think you'll find a phone number in your owner's manual. See what they recommend. There's obviously something at play that causes this stinging.

[Sanity Challenged]

I mostly always fired my CZ pistols in single action, but playing around in some different divisions in the competitions I shoot had me starting in double action. A couple months ago I was debugging some variance in accuracy between my first 3 shots when starting from double action.

I found that when I put my finger where it naturally went for the first double-action pull, by the time the trigger broke my finger was vertically lower, and horizontally my finger was deeper on the trigger than my typical placement. This was why my 1st shot after DA was typically pretty bad, but after that my finger settled into its proper position and all subsequent shots were back where I expected them to be. I was able to play around with my finger placement until I could get a smooth, accurate pull in double action and still have my finger "home" when the trigger reset in single-action.

The difference in feedback to your trigger finger after a double-action pull could be a result of your finger position. Getting your finger lower on the trigger where the trigger is more curved, and where there is more leverage can result in increased feel of recoil, and having more of your finger on the trigger than your normal single-action position could amplify that as well.

Do some dry fire, single- and double-action, and pay attention to where your finger is when the hammer falls. You may be able to work out what is going on and find a smooth, accurate trigger pull that doesn't move your trigger finger position around.

Swapping in an 85c trigger may help as well if you are unable to find a smooth, accurate trigger pull that doesn't bite you. It is less curved, particularly on the bottom half of the trigger.

[Neal_G.]

I had a PCR about five years ago, and I never had any kind of trigger slap/sting from it. The mainspring was very heavy, and I should have dropped in a lighter one from CGW to lighten the DA, and cammy, but it smoothed out pretty good after 500+ rounds through it. Never warmed up to the PCR's serrated trigger though, I much prefer the standard steel Compact's trigger. There are enough videos on Youtube of complete disassembly of decocker CZ's like the 75BD, P-01, PCR, SP-01 Tactical, etc, so if your comfortable with it then you might want to try a complete tear down, inspection, and cleaning of all the decocker/trigger control parts.

Some CZ's have some real rough edges and machine marks on these pieces and they don't always seem to gell together as nice in some guns as others. This could be the reason your getting this trigger feedback. I've owned a PCR, SP-01 Tactical, SP-01 standard, and 75 Compact and never felt that, but some of my guns were inherently smoother in operation from the start than others.

[ferrarif1fan]

Does your CZ have have the trigger with the deep curve to it? I had a CZ P01 years ago and think I remember a little trigger sting. I thought that the deep curve of the trigger might have been "capturing" my finger in the trigger and therefore transmitting more of the recoil force to that finger. Just my guess.

[Nathan]

....when I fire the first shot after decocking it, there is what appears harsh feedback to the trigger. It actually makes my trigger finger sting.

Can you please clarify what harsh feedback is?

[chris in va]

It's called trigger slap, and no it's not normal. I've experienced it on an AK however.

Call David at Cajun Gun Works, I'm sure he could help.

[JohnKSa]

I've not experienced that with the CZ pistols I've fired, but after doing some searching on the internet it does seem that a few users have had trouble with trigger slap with these guns. Some people feel that it might be somehow related to the firing pin block.

I haven't been able to find anyone who mentions only experiencing trigger slap when using the DA trigger pull though. Very interesting and apparently unusual problem...

[JDBerg]

Originally Posted by Idaho 45 Vaquero:

I always manually cock my hammer back, even when doing tactical speed shooting, or drawing from my holster. I was raised on single action only revolvers, so cocking a hammer is just second nature to me.

Agree 100%. "IMHO", thumb-cocking the hammer of my HK P30 out of the holster is a effective technique since I've practiced doing it since I've owned the gun.

[redlightrich]

Thank you for the thoughts.. By harsh, I mean that when firing ONLY from the decocked mode, ( please note, the hammer is in the first safety notch at this point, not fully resting on the firing pin plate) there is a pronounced "sting" to my first pad of my trigger finger. It actually turned red at one point. Another point to know is my finger is fairly well seasoned. I play bass, and guitar, and work with my hands continually. I do not have delicate surgeon hands. My hands have had a lifetime of less than delicate treatment.
I am not afraid of this sting. And it wouldn't prevent me from a timely first shot, but I certainly would prefer it wasn't this way.
The shape of the trigger seems similar to my 75 SP01 ( the new black trigger with deep curve).
Maybe it is correct that the angle of decocked position trigger plays in. Again for clarity, single action is just fine. I can easily do a mag dump without any feeling of harshness or feedback.

I never expected this gun to shoot as softly as my SP01 or even my VP9 for different reasons, and for the most part, it is just fine.

Also, keep in mind, I can not carry in NJ, so until I escape to a free state( I am strongly considering moving northwest 25 miles to PA), I really don't need the decocker. I can simply rack the slide and lower the hammer ( like I do on my SP01 with a simple safety). The difference is only the long double action trigger will be the actual safety. That concept works fine on a revolver!!

Maybe the next time I am at the range, I can get someone to video my finger to see what is really happening. It is good to know that other people here have at least heard of this.

Again, I thank you all. This site has some very clever enthusiasts!!!

Rich

[Nathan]

Hmmm. Must be related to how the stirrup is disconnecting.