IMR 4227 for 357 and Ruger 45 Colt

mmb713 · May 28, 2012, 01:58 PM

I recently bought a pound of 4227 to try as a replacement for N110. I emailed Hodgdon with a question but still haven't gotten a reply. I'm going to have to call them but in the mean time maybe someone here can answer my question and tell me what they know about this powder. Here is the email:

"I have been using N110 for years in 357 Magnum and Ruger-only 45 Colt but am about out of the last of an 8lb keg I purchased years ago. Since N110 is no longer sold except in 1lb canisters now and is hard to find and a lot more expensive I have decided to switch to one of your powders for full power 357 Magnum and hot 45 Colt. For mid-range loads I have already started using Universal and have worked up good loads. I just bought a pound of IMR 4227 and 158gr and 250gr XTPs to do some load work up. It is my understanding that the new IMR 4227 is actually your old H4227. The canister I just purchased is labeled made in Australia. I have used H4227 years ago and the color of the powder I just purchased is not the same as I remember. It is a dark gray. Can I use data for H4227, which you still publish and there is more of, or should I use data for IMR, which can vary considerably from data for H4227? I prefer extruded powders over ball powders and that is why I'm trying 4227 again. I know I will be giving up some velocity to H110/296 and Lil Gun but the velocity will be the same come winter. Thank you."

mehavey · May 28, 2012, 02:11 PM

Quote:

I just bought a pound of IMR 4227 ... actually your old H4227. The canister I just purchased is labeled made in Australia.

QuickLoad say IMR4227 and H4227 are pretty darn close. Six of one/half dozen of the other. See also:
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/re...tml#post649968

By any chance does it have an ADI identifier/equivalent # on it?
See:
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...r-equivalents/

But as for replacing V-N110 for what you've been using it for...
I'd bite the bullet and re-purchase the N110. That stuff's magic

Jim Watson · May 28, 2012, 06:27 PM

I'd get real radical and look on the Hodgdon WWW or FREE literature or magazine size annual reloading publication and see what loads they had for current production 4227.

I think it kind of hokey to bring in powder from Australia and CALL it IMR, but they have the distributorships and can do as they like.

mmb713 · May 28, 2012, 06:36 PM

I have Hodgdon's 2012 guide. It has a lot of data for H4227. Not so much for the IMR. Their online data is the same as in the guide. My question is can I use the H4227 data and is the Australian made IMR 4227 the same powder now as the H4227?

rclark · May 28, 2012, 08:31 PM

All I know is 20g of IMR 4227 under 255g SWC is a darn good load using a CCI-350 primer

. This isn't a 'hot' load either. It is my go to load at the moment in .45 Colt. I have not went higher with it, as I have no need for a hotter load. Around 1000fps is just right for me and I can shoot it in all my .45 Colt revolvers. I don't shoot jacketed so no experience there.

I did try it in .357 under 158g SWC, but I wasn't impressed... Tested from 10.2g to 14.0g. Again I don't shoot jacketed so no experience there.

YMMV.

mehavey · May 28, 2012, 11:04 PM

Quote:

My question is can I just use the H4227 data and is the Australian made IMR4227 the same powder as the H4227?

See Post #2 above and follow the links:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...54&postcount=2

GP100man · May 28, 2012, 11:30 PM

Will this help any ?? http://www.imrpowder.com/pdf_reload.html

mmb713 · May 29, 2012, 10:07 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. mehavey, very useful links. GP100man, (hey, I'm one too!) your link does have more data for IMR 4227 in 357 than Hodgdon's website but no data for the heavy bullets in 357 and nothing for Ruger-only 45 Colt

I think I have IMR specific data from Hornady so I guess I'll start there. I'm just curious if the Australian imported IMR 4227 is for sure the old H4227, in which case using that data would be no problem. Hodgdon needs to just come out and say one way or the other on its website. They already post identical data between the Hodgdon and Winchester powders that are identical.

mmb713 · May 30, 2012, 11:24 PM

Still haven't gotten an email back from Hodgdon and still haven't had a chance to call them. I did however email ADI about their AR2205 powder, which, according the link provided by mehavey, is/was H4227. This was my email:

"Is IMR 4227 that is now imported from Australia by Hodgdon Powder Company the same powder as your AR2205? Was AR2205 previously imported and marketed in the USA as Hodgdon H4227? Inquiring minds want to know..."

This was their response:

"Thank you for your enquiry from the 30th May with regard to reloading using ADI Sporting powders. ADI AR2205 is supplied to our partner Hodgdon Powder Company for distribution in the USA. This is the same product that is supplied to the Australian reloaders market.
We have been supplying Hodgdon with AR2205 for many years and plan to do so for years to come.
Refer to our website at www.adi-powders.com.au or our 5th edition handloaders’ guide for more information, warnings and reloading safety.
We thank you for using ADI Sporting Powders.
Yours sincerely,
ADI Technical Centre"

Not exactly coming right out and saying it directly but I think it is safe to infer that the Australian imported IMR 4227 is H4227.

buck460XVR · May 31, 2012, 12:33 PM

I posted in this same thread over at THR what Hodgdon replied when I e-mailed them with this same question. It will be interesting to see if their reply is different to you than it was to me.

May 28, 2012, 01:58 PM	#1
mmb713 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2011 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 421	IMR 4227 for 357 and Ruger 45 Colt I recently bought a pound of 4227 to try as a replacement for N110. I emailed Hodgdon with a question but still haven't gotten a reply. I'm going to have to call them but in the mean time maybe someone here can answer my question and tell me what they know about this powder. Here is the email: "I have been using N110 for years in 357 Magnum and Ruger-only 45 Colt but am about out of the last of an 8lb keg I purchased years ago. Since N110 is no longer sold except in 1lb canisters now and is hard to find and a lot more expensive I have decided to switch to one of your powders for full power 357 Magnum and hot 45 Colt. For mid-range loads I have already started using Universal and have worked up good loads. I just bought a pound of IMR 4227 and 158gr and 250gr XTPs to do some load work up. It is my understanding that the new IMR 4227 is actually your old H4227. The canister I just purchased is labeled made in Australia. I have used H4227 years ago and the color of the powder I just purchased is not the same as I remember. It is a dark gray. Can I use data for H4227, which you still publish and there is more of, or should I use data for IMR, which can vary considerably from data for H4227? I prefer extruded powders over ball powders and that is why I'm trying 4227 again. I know I will be giving up some velocity to H110/296 and Lil Gun but the velocity will be the same come winter. Thank you."

May 28, 2012, 06:36 PM	#4
mmb713 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2011 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 421	I have Hodgdon's 2012 guide. It has a lot of data for H4227. Not so much for the IMR. Their online data is the same as in the guide. My question is can I use the H4227 data and is the Australian made IMR 4227 the same powder now as the H4227? Last edited by mmb713; May 28, 2012 at 11:04 PM.

May 28, 2012, 08:31 PM	#5
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,618	All I know is 20g of IMR 4227 under 255g SWC is a darn good load using a CCI-350 primer . This isn't a 'hot' load either. It is my go to load at the moment in .45 Colt. I have not went higher with it, as I have no need for a hotter load. Around 1000fps is just right for me and I can shoot it in all my .45 Colt revolvers. I don't shoot jacketed so no experience there. I did try it in .357 under 158g SWC, but I wasn't impressed... Tested from 10.2g to 14.0g. Again I don't shoot jacketed so no experience there. YMMV. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

May 28, 2012, 11:30 PM	#7
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	Will this help any ?? http://www.imrpowder.com/pdf_reload.html __________________ GP100man

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May 28, 2012, 06:27 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,529	I'd get real radical and look on the Hodgdon WWW or FREE literature or magazine size annual reloading publication and see what loads they had for current production 4227. I think it kind of hokey to bring in powder from Australia and CALL it IMR, but they have the distributorships and can do as they like.

May 29, 2012, 10:07 PM	#8
mmb713 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2011 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 421	Thanks for the replies guys. mehavey, very useful links. GP100man, (hey, I'm one too!) your link does have more data for IMR 4227 in 357 than Hodgdon's website but no data for the heavy bullets in 357 and nothing for Ruger-only 45 Colt I think I have IMR specific data from Hornady so I guess I'll start there. I'm just curious if the Australian imported IMR 4227 is for sure the old H4227, in which case using that data would be no problem. Hodgdon needs to just come out and say one way or the other on its website. They already post identical data between the Hodgdon and Winchester powders that are identical.

May 30, 2012, 11:24 PM	#9
mmb713 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2011 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 421	Still haven't gotten an email back from Hodgdon and still haven't had a chance to call them. I did however email ADI about their AR2205 powder, which, according the link provided by mehavey, is/was H4227. This was my email: "Is IMR 4227 that is now imported from Australia by Hodgdon Powder Company the same powder as your AR2205? Was AR2205 previously imported and marketed in the USA as Hodgdon H4227? Inquiring minds want to know..." This was their response: "Thank you for your enquiry from the 30th May with regard to reloading using ADI Sporting powders. ADI AR2205 is supplied to our partner Hodgdon Powder Company for distribution in the USA. This is the same product that is supplied to the Australian reloaders market. We have been supplying Hodgdon with AR2205 for many years and plan to do so for years to come. Refer to our website at www.adi-powders.com.au or our 5th edition handloaders’ guide for more information, warnings and reloading safety. We thank you for using ADI Sporting Powders. Yours sincerely, ADI Technical Centre" Not exactly coming right out and saying it directly but I think it is safe to infer that the Australian imported IMR 4227 is H4227.

May 31, 2012, 12:33 PM	#10
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	I posted in this same thread over at THR what Hodgdon replied when I e-mailed them with this same question. It will be interesting to see if their reply is different to you than it was to me.