Concealed Carry Illinois - Page 8

Luger_carbine · August 22, 2013, 08:52 PM

Quote:

In the tradition of the Old West, the Act does allow for employers to require its employees and visitors to “please check their guns at the door” so to speak.

In the tradition of the Old West

http://www.isba.org/sections/laborem...thedooremploye

hermannr · August 24, 2013, 09:54 PM

In this debate on what will happen to Chicago/IL MURDER stats... maybe it would be better to focus on use of a weapon in committing VIOLENT crime (Like rape, robbery etc)

I would bet that the new CC law will impact the robbery stats more than the homicide stats.

Beagle45ACP · August 28, 2013, 12:51 PM

I know the whole debate here in Illinois recently has been about concealed carry, but I was reading the synopsis for the bill HB0997, and it said

Quote:

Provides that the Department of State Police shall issue a license to a person to: (1) carry a loaded or unloaded handgun on or about his or her person, concealed or otherwise; (2) keep or carry a loaded or unloaded handgun on or about his or her person when in a vehicle; and (3) keep a loaded or unloaded handgun openly or concealed in a vehicle.

So to the best of my understanding that means that when everything is ironed out, we should have open carry in addition to concealed.

Source:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/Bill...85&LegID=71413

motorhead0922 · August 28, 2013, 03:07 PM

I see your point, Beagle. However, from the ISP web site FAQ's:

Quote:

Will persons be allowed to open carry?

No. "Concealed firearm" means a loaded or unloaded handgun carried on or about a person completely or mostly concealed from view of the public or on or about a person within a vehicle.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/firearms/ccw/ccw-faq.cfm

maestro pistolero · August 28, 2013, 04:30 PM

Based on the wording of the law, it seems that with the use of the word "or" it would indicate they must do one or the other, concealed OR open.

Beagle45ACP · August 28, 2013, 04:33 PM

Yeah, figured out where I went wrong. The part that I was reading was the "Synopsis as Introduced" so it looks like the bit about open carry must've been 86'd before the bill passed.

Jim March · August 28, 2013, 04:50 PM

Oh MAN I smell a really fun lawsuit in the works. Big money, too: it's a 100% bet that open-carry in Chicago will get guns pointed at you and then point to their written policy in defiance of the law...boom. "Policy and practice" lawsuit right there.

Bonus points if we point this out ahead of time, very publicly, get their qualified immunity stripped from 'em.

lefteye · August 28, 2013, 05:05 PM

The Illinois State Police website has a Concealed Carry FAQ page with a PDF of the legislation. The PDF identifies the bill as HB0183 rather than HF0997.

This is relevant FAC and answer

"Will persons be allowed to open carry?

No. "Concealed firearm" means a loaded or unloaded handgun carried on or about a person completely or mostly concealed from view of the public or on or about a person within a vehicle."

My interpretation:

It appears the words "mostly concealed" are intended to protect the person carrying the firearm from being considered to be violating the "concealed" carry requirement by "printing" or unintentionally allowing the firearm and/or holster to be seen.

godot · August 29, 2013, 03:00 PM

would be a disaster in large cites like Chicago. The police don't know if you have a CCW or not, so I'd expect to be asked to produce it 20 times a day. Also some people would feel threatened by the sight of so many guns. The non gunners have a right to live too.

Scimmia · August 30, 2013, 12:11 PM

Quote:

The non gunners have a right to live too.

Right to live, yes. Right not to be offended/irrationally afraid, no.

Lt. Skrumpledonk Ret · August 30, 2013, 12:16 PM

Now we're talkin'
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Anyone who open carries in the loop in Chicago can count on me buying them lunch. And I'll follow them around free of charge with a camcorderphone for the purpose of suing the cop who illegally detains them or worse.
Who will put it on the line for a $15,000 settlement?
This, THIS, is the civil rights movement of our time; and in 50 years we won't be discussing whether or not it made things worse.

hermannr · September 1, 2013, 10:52 PM

Godot: you need to read the US Supreme Court ruling in Delaware V Prouse. If LE was stopping everyone that OC'd or had their cc (Criminal Carry) exposed to check for a license....Chicago would go bankrupt sooner with all the 42 USC 1983 settlements.

godot · September 2, 2013, 06:44 PM

Bankrupting Chicago wouldn't take much. I don't understand how it's still functioning fiscally.

In the area of open carry, this is my read. On any political issue, maybe 15% of the population are strongly for and 15% are against. That leaves 70% who may lean one way or another but are basically ambivalent. IMO open carry would upset a lot of people who were previously indifferent. Again this is only my opinion, but it seems like poking a 70% bear with a stick for no reason.

These are my final words on the subject and understand other people taking opposing views.

Thanks for reading.

Carry_24/7 · September 3, 2013, 08:49 PM

I just received my FOID today...it took a solid 5 months. So, if the FOID is supposed to take 30 days, but in actuality it's 5 months, I believe we can safely say concealed carry will take 1 year+ from application to receipt of card.

Prof Young · September 5, 2013, 06:38 PM

Forum Readers

We are about to get the right to carry in Illinois recognized with some new laws. In the mean time I've heard that under current law, you can carry an unloaded gun and so long as the magazine is not in the same enclosure as the gun and you will meet the letter of the law in Illinois. My LEO step-son says it's true. Any insights here?

Live well, be safe
Prof Young

mrray13 · September 5, 2013, 10:41 PM

Mostly right. The magazine can be in the same case, just not in the weapon. In the case of a revolver, empty cylinder, speedloaders can be in same case. Wouldn't try carrying that way around Chicago. Oh, and I'm a deputy sheriff way down south.

You do have to have a valid FOID. Otherwise, it's a no go.

Mike38 · September 5, 2013, 11:57 PM

Carry an unloaded handgun, concealed while walking down the sidewalk in “Sometown, IL” with a full magazine right next to it?

I’m not going to be the test case for that one. No matter if a LEO told me it was fine to do so.

I live in a very gun friendly county in North Central Illinois. Bureau County to be exact. The Sherriff is a strong proponent of the right to keep and bear arms. But I still wouldn’t do it.

Mastiff · September 6, 2013, 12:02 AM

The handgun has to be in a closed case. This makes it TRANSPORTING a firearm, not concealed carry.

**Frank Ettin** · September 6, 2013, 12:19 AM

An issue here, as with off-body carry, is that if you have a gun with you for possible use in self defense, you will want the gun (1) secure and under your control; and (2) readily and quickly available in an emergency, the nature of which you can't reliably predict. When a gun is carried loaded in a properly designed holster worn on your belt (1) it is reasonably secure and under your control; and (2) if you know how you can put the gun to use quickly if necessary.

zukiphile · September 6, 2013, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike38

Bureau County to be exact.

I imagine you have a lot of problems with bureaucracy.

**Spats McGee** · September 6, 2013, 08:26 AM

Given that we already have a thread on Concealed Carry Illinois, I'm going to merge these threads.

mrray13 · September 6, 2013, 10:58 AM

Mastiff is correct, it has to be in an enclosed case. Holsters are not enclosed, however, things like fanny packs are. Things like the zippered case with a belt loop that came with my old p3-at are. And yes, the magazine can be in the case, just not in the gun. The statute is very clear. Of course most northern counties have the wrong interpretation.

Matter of point, a now retired ISP msgt. is the one who told me about how ISP went to Springfield and asked for clarification. It was explained to them exactly as I have explained it, and it was called "7 seconds to safety" by instructors and such. Meaning with the current law and practice, one should be able to clear their case, load their mag and be ready for work in 7 seconds.

**Frank Ettin** · September 6, 2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrray13

...one should be able to clear their case, load their mag and be ready for work in 7 seconds.

On the other hand, an assailant with a contact weapon can cover 7 yards in about 1.5 seconds.

At Gunsite, the standard at 7 yards we are expected to meet is two shots center of mass, from the holster, with movement (a step right or left) in 1.5 seconds.

In a violent encounter 7 seconds can literally be more than a lifetime.

Remember that this is not about speed for its own sake. It's simply that if you do need your gun, you have no way to know in advance how much time you'll have in which to put it to use. It's about how long it can take us to perceive the threat, determine the need to fire, deploy our gun and engage the threat with accurate fire, having made the decision that shooting is warranted.

So how much time will we have in which to do all of that? I have no idea and neither do you. It's going to all depend on what happens and how it happens. We might have lots of time, or we might have very little. We simply can't know in advance.

If we can't get done what we need to do in the time circumstances allow us, we will not be happy with the outcome. Good training and diligent practice can help reduce the time we need to be able to effectively do what we need to be able to do. And since I can't know how much time I'll have, I'd rather not give up time if I can avoid it.

mrray13 · September 6, 2013, 12:10 PM

I agree 100% Frank. But for years, that's all Illinois residents had, and in the case of most counties around Chicago, they didn't even have that, albeit illegally they didn't have it. With the new law, this will all be somewhat moot. Until that time however, there isn't any other option.

Truthfully, I hate it for the good folks.

**Frank Ettin** · September 6, 2013, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrray13

...Until that time however, there isn't any other option....

My point is that it really isn't a viable option.

August 28, 2013, 04:33 PM	#181
Beagle45ACP Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2012 Location: IL, USA Posts: 163	Yeah, figured out where I went wrong. The part that I was reading was the "Synopsis as Introduced" so it looks like the bit about open carry must've been 86'd before the bill passed. __________________ I have a mild interest in guns. Actually, I think the clinical term is "obsession," but that makes me sound like some kind of gun-nut. Which is fair, since I am. Wastin' away my future children's inheritance one box of ammo, range fee, and bottle of Hoppe's #9 at a time.

August 28, 2013, 04:50 PM	#182
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Oh MAN I smell a really fun lawsuit in the works. Big money, too: it's a 100% bet that open-carry in Chicago will get guns pointed at you and then point to their written policy in defiance of the law...boom. "Policy and practice" lawsuit right there. Bonus points if we point this out ahead of time, very publicly, get their qualified immunity stripped from 'em. __________________ Jim March

August 28, 2013, 05:05 PM	#183
lefteye Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Posts: 1,433	The Illinois State Police website has a Concealed Carry FAQ page with a PDF of the legislation. The PDF identifies the bill as HB0183 rather than HF0997. This is relevant FAC and answer "Will persons be allowed to open carry? No. "Concealed firearm" means a loaded or unloaded handgun carried on or about a person completely or mostly concealed from view of the public or on or about a person within a vehicle." My interpretation: It appears the words "mostly concealed" are intended to protect the person carrying the firearm from being considered to be violating the "concealed" carry requirement by "printing" or unintentionally allowing the firearm and/or holster to be seen. __________________ Vietnam Veteran ('69-'70) NRA Life Member RMEF Life Member Last edited by lefteye; August 28, 2013 at 05:10 PM.

August 29, 2013, 03:00 PM	#184
godot Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2004 Posts: 105	Open Carry would be a disaster in large cites like Chicago. The police don't know if you have a CCW or not, so I'd expect to be asked to produce it 20 times a day. Also some people would feel threatened by the sight of so many guns. The non gunners have a right to live too.

August 30, 2013, 12:16 PM	#186
Lt. Skrumpledonk Ret Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2012 Location: Oh, Jesus. Posts: 226	Open v Concealed Now we're talkin' I've said it before and I'll say it again: Anyone who open carries in the loop in Chicago can count on me buying them lunch. And I'll follow them around free of charge with a camcorderphone for the purpose of suing the cop who illegally detains them or worse. Who will put it on the line for a $15,000 settlement? This, THIS, is the civil rights movement of our time; and in 50 years we won't be discussing whether or not it made things worse. Last edited by Evan Thomas; August 30, 2013 at 12:22 PM. Reason: inappropriate language.

August 24, 2013, 09:54 PM	#177
hermannr Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2011 Posts: 730	In this debate on what will happen to Chicago/IL MURDER stats... maybe it would be better to focus on use of a weapon in committing VIOLENT crime (Like rape, robbery etc) I would bet that the new CC law will impact the robbery stats more than the homicide stats.

August 28, 2013, 04:30 PM	#180
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	Based on the wording of the law, it seems that with the use of the word "or" it would indicate they must do one or the other, concealed OR open.

September 1, 2013, 10:52 PM	#187
hermannr Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2011 Posts: 730	Godot: you need to read the US Supreme Court ruling in Delaware V Prouse. If LE was stopping everyone that OC'd or had their cc (Criminal Carry) exposed to check for a license....Chicago would go bankrupt sooner with all the 42 USC 1983 settlements.

September 2, 2013, 06:44 PM	#188
godot Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2004 Posts: 105	Open Carry Bankrupting Chicago wouldn't take much. I don't understand how it's still functioning fiscally. In the area of open carry, this is my read. On any political issue, maybe 15% of the population are strongly for and 15% are against. That leaves 70% who may lean one way or another but are basically ambivalent. IMO open carry would upset a lot of people who were previously indifferent. Again this is only my opinion, but it seems like poking a 70% bear with a stick for no reason. These are my final words on the subject and understand other people taking opposing views. Thanks for reading.

September 3, 2013, 08:49 PM	#189
Carry_24/7 Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2011 Posts: 801	I just received my FOID today...it took a solid 5 months. So, if the FOID is supposed to take 30 days, but in actuality it's 5 months, I believe we can safely say concealed carry will take 1 year+ from application to receipt of card.

September 5, 2013, 06:38 PM	#190
Prof Young Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Illinois - down state Posts: 2,404	Legal Concealed Carry in Illinois under the current law? Forum Readers We are about to get the right to carry in Illinois recognized with some new laws. In the mean time I've heard that under current law, you can carry an unloaded gun and so long as the magazine is not in the same enclosure as the gun and you will meet the letter of the law in Illinois. My LEO step-son says it's true. Any insights here? Live well, be safe Prof Young

September 5, 2013, 10:41 PM	#191
mrray13 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 911	Mostly right. The magazine can be in the same case, just not in the weapon. In the case of a revolver, empty cylinder, speedloaders can be in same case. Wouldn't try carrying that way around Chicago. Oh, and I'm a deputy sheriff way down south. You do have to have a valid FOID. Otherwise, it's a no go.

September 5, 2013, 11:57 PM	#192
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	Carry an unloaded handgun, concealed while walking down the sidewalk in “Sometown, IL” with a full magazine right next to it? I’m not going to be the test case for that one. No matter if a LEO told me it was fine to do so. I live in a very gun friendly county in North Central Illinois. Bureau County to be exact. The Sherriff is a strong proponent of the right to keep and bear arms. But I still wouldn’t do it.

September 6, 2013, 12:02 AM	#193
Mastiff Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Posts: 115	The handgun has to be in a closed case. This makes it TRANSPORTING a firearm, not concealed carry. __________________ What are the facts? Again and again and again—what are the facts? —what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts! -Robert A Heinlein

September 6, 2013, 12:19 AM	#194
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	An issue here, as with off-body carry, is that if you have a gun with you for possible use in self defense, you will want the gun (1) secure and under your control; and (2) readily and quickly available in an emergency, the nature of which you can't reliably predict. When a gun is carried loaded in a properly designed holster worn on your belt (1) it is reasonably secure and under your control; and (2) if you know how you can put the gun to use quickly if necessary. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

September 6, 2013, 08:26 AM	#196
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	Given that we already have a thread on Concealed Carry Illinois, I'm going to merge these threads. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

September 6, 2013, 10:58 AM	#197
mrray13 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 911	Mastiff is correct, it has to be in an enclosed case. Holsters are not enclosed, however, things like fanny packs are. Things like the zippered case with a belt loop that came with my old p3-at are. And yes, the magazine can be in the case, just not in the gun. The statute is very clear. Of course most northern counties have the wrong interpretation. Matter of point, a now retired ISP msgt. is the one who told me about how ISP went to Springfield and asked for clarification. It was explained to them exactly as I have explained it, and it was called "7 seconds to safety" by instructors and such. Meaning with the current law and practice, one should be able to clear their case, load their mag and be ready for work in 7 seconds.

September 6, 2013, 12:10 PM	#199
mrray13 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 911	I agree 100% Frank. But for years, that's all Illinois residents had, and in the case of most counties around Chicago, they didn't even have that, albeit illegally they didn't have it. With the new law, this will all be somewhat moot. Until that time however, there isn't any other option. Truthfully, I hate it for the good folks.