Pistol reliability tips - Page 2

marine6680 · August 31, 2012, 09:20 PM

The "whats your life worth" argument was brought back up again...

Its like some people don't understand the term "budget"...

Some people would love to own a nice HK, Sig, Colt, etc, etc... But they can't even afford to buy a used Glock.

There are people out there that find it hard to save $150 over the course of several months or more... Live paycheck to paycheck, always worried they can't pay rent this month... or the alternator on the car goes out, and now all they can afford to eat is pinto beans for the next month... You really expect them to save up $800+ for a new gun?

Then there are those that are not so bad off, but $400 dollars spent on something less than directly practical, like a tv or gun is a big consideration... and the intangible what if/maybe scenario of needing to defend oneself sometime in the unknown future is even more hard to justify.

When a bad guy is in front of you, the $150 Hi-point in your hands now... is a hell of a lot better than the $800 Sig still sitting in the display case at the gun shop.

Just because you can afford to spend the $800... even if you have to save for several months... Does not make you a better person or better as a gun owner... Don't forget that there are those much less fortunate than you... And they deserve to have the ability to defend themselves just like anyone else... they are not inferior just because they are poor.

I've lived the "pinto bean poor" life as a child... We were not on welfare or food stamps... My parents were too proud for that, both worked long hours to keep bills paid... They would work so long of hours, that me and my sister had to learn responsibility young. We got ourselves up for school and handled most of the household chores. (including cooking when we got old enough... about 12-13) I often lived in some shady trailer parks in small town Alabama... definitely some white trash places full of questionable motives.

One day when I was about 7, the sole of my shoes started coming loose, soon it got so bad that I let my parents know... my mom said I would have to wait until she could save up enough for a cheap pair, and that I might just need to use duck tape or something until then... My dad didn't like the idea of sending me off to school like that. We went to walmart and I got a cheapo pair of $10-15 shoes... that little bit of money spent on shoes wiped out our food budget, and we had to eat pinto beans every day for a week.

Did I or my family not deserve the same as everyone else? (At least within our capabilities anyway, we didn't do handouts)

Fortunately I am no longer in that situation, as I grew older, our lives improved, we managed to get into a house in a better neighborhood. I finished school and pursued well paying fields... and my mother is doing much better now. Finally got a decent paying job, and she is remarried to an engineer, they just built a real nice house as they approach retirement. She deserves it... she worked long hours sometimes two jobs and even attended college courses at night for a while.

Ok... end long tangent filled rant

farmerboy · August 31, 2012, 09:33 PM

You still wearing those Walmart shoes?

warningshot · August 31, 2012, 10:30 PM

I had to set the timing on my brand new Echo Chain Saw with 10 pound sledge hammer one time. Didn't hurt the hammer at all.

marine6680 · August 31, 2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

You still wearing those Walmart shoes?

Some tough shoes to last 25+ years.

snyper85 · August 31, 2012, 11:44 PM

+1 marine6680.

marine6680 · August 31, 2012, 11:55 PM

The post was a bit long and rant'y...

Basically, I find that the "whats your life worth" argument pointless and counter productive. It tends to come off as condescending or uninformed.

Some simply can not afford to spend a lot, we need to be willing to help and steer those people to something that not only can they afford but will also serve them well. Be it a cheap used S&W revolver, or an even cheaper Hi-point 9mm.

There are some cheap brands to avoid, but some function well despite the low cost and crude manufacturing.

farmerboy · August 31, 2012, 11:55 PM

+1 warningshot

osbornk · September 1, 2012, 09:10 AM

There is a difference between buying smart and buying the "best". I research the products I want and buy the most economical product that reliably gets the job done. You don't need a Mercedes to deiver the mail or a sledge hammer to drive a tack.

Winchester_73 · September 1, 2012, 09:20 AM

Quote:

The post was a bit long and rant'y...

Basically, I find that the "whats your life worth" argument pointless and counter productive. It tends to come off as condescending or uninformed.

Some simply can not afford to spend a lot, we need to be willing to help and steer those people to something that not only can they afford but will also serve them well. Be it a cheap used S&W revolver, or an even cheaper Hi-point 9mm.

There are some cheap brands to avoid, but some function well despite the low cost and crude manufacturing.

Wrong marine. Your post is wrong for many reasons the chief one being you actually didn't understand me at all. I will reply to what you said in the thread that you basically started about my post, which you completely misunderstood.

The sad thing is that I read my post before finalizing, re-read it, and purposely tried to make it non-offensive, accurate, fair, and truthful and yet still, people don't get the moral of the story.

Your reply to me is really a reply to everyone in your life who wronged you because of their snobbery, or a perception by you of them. Either way, your reply was out of sorts and baseless.

I really hope that nothing happens to anyone who is new to guns and concealed carry because of the crap that is sometimes posted on this forum.

farmerboy · September 1, 2012, 09:45 AM

New shooters or people who are just getting involved in guns are just like we once were. I when I was in junior high school bought pistols for $100.00. They weren't cheapos some were smiths some were Cheapos. But I started somewhere and now I know what I had, I understand what I want now and I got to do what has to be done to get it. My best gun so far is a Glock 22 gen 4 and new it only costed $419.00. For a gun that's not terrible expensive. And if I had no money or little money. I'd either save to pay the 400 in payments or buy a used gun for cheaper. They're out there from time to timeayne not around every corner but they are. But I wouldn't get a el cheapo and grind this, bend this and flitz this to make it shoot. In the end you still have a el cheapo that is unreliable and prob full of problems continually. I know the Op is talking about helping his gun function that's all, and is prob a great gun but then that one poster got panties in a wad about being poor and none of his post made sense to me. Everyone mainly will start out and upgrade through the years. Some will start off with Sigs or HKs. So, I dont care. I'm still doing what I'm going to do in the end., staying away from el cheapo. But I do love pinto beans.

marine6680 · September 1, 2012, 10:33 AM

I didn't mean to be overly sensitive... I'm not in a huge huff over here.

I just never find it a productive way to go about things.

I have people reply with that argument, and never actually contribute, they parrot the same thing several times in the same thread.

"Get something more expensive"
"I can't afford to"
"don't care do it anyway"

I'm not saying anyone in this thread has done so.

dgludwig · September 1, 2012, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Basically, I find that the "whats your life worth" argument pointless and counter productive. It tends to come off as condescending or uninformed.

In the context of deciding on which kind of gun to get to defend your life, whether you're poor or rich, I'm not getting why it's being "condescending or uninformed" to ask the question "what's your life worth" as a yardstick for making an informed choice. As the oldest of seven children living on the edge of poverty for all of my childhood, Marine, I can match your "sob story" with my sob story every year of my life growing up. But when it came time to get and decide on what kind of house insurance to get, my father made sure we had the right kind, even if beans became a menu staple, because he knew that in the event of a fire or some other catastrophe, "what's your home worth" was a valid question. Likewise, when choosing a firearm to be used for self-defense, I think it's entirely appropriate to ask the question: What's your life worth?

marine6680 · September 1, 2012, 07:59 PM

(Lets get off my life... as its really not that important to the point at hand.)

It isn't so much inappropriate in essence, but how its gone about.

Instead of "whats your life worth"

Say... This is a tool that may be needed to save your life one day, make sure its up to that task. Choose wisely in a budget you can afford, holding off a few weeks to have enough for something a little better may be a better way to go. Unless of course there is an immediate know danger to yourself and you need something soon.

Sure, it doesn't roll off the tongue as well... but it more clearly states the intended goal.

And admittingly, those in immediate danger are not very likely to be on here, but those in bad neighborhoods may be.

bedbugbilly · September 4, 2012, 07:56 PM

Wow. I tuned in to this thread as I thought thee might be some tips on insuring your handgun is maintained and reliable if needed. So far, we've had a debate over Dremel Tools . . . or maybe and advertisement . . . can't decide which yet . . . another debate over "what is your life worth" and some feuds.

What gives?

A handgun or any weapon is a piece of machinery and all machinery must be maintained. It doesn't matter if it's a cheap Saturday night special or a custom Colt . . . it needs to be maintained.

My tips:

1. If you carry a "pocket" gun, safety says it should be in some type of holster in the pocket which will prevent accidental firing yet allow it to be easily drawn. That said, some folks do sometimes carry their handgun (semi or revolver) in their pocket. I carry a 357 LCR on a belt holster but at times, I do slide it in to my pocket late at night if I'm taking the dogs out. The biggest problems with carrying in any pocket is "lint". It can accumulate and cause your weapon to not function or it can build up in the bore. Solution - make sure your weapon is unloaded and check the bore, cylinder (on a revolver) and other areas to make sure none has accumulated.

2. Check your ammunition regularly. Some folks keep the same ammo in their weapon for weeks on end, never checking it. Ynload your cylinder or clip on a regular basis and inspect your cartridges. On my LCR, I do this once a week at least and usually rotate ne cartridges into the cylinder. This also goes for speed loaders, etc. Make sure they are functioning properly.

3. Semi-auto magazines - check them on a regular basis to make sure they are going to feed the cartridge up. This is easily done by simply unloading them. Some will say that you don't need to "rest' a spring loaded magazine - I disagree. I had a 1911A1 for a long time that I kept a loaded magazine in and hidden for home protection. I kept several extra magazines loaded as well. Upon inspection of the magazines one time, I discovered week springs in two of them that wouldn't feed the cartridge properly. Both were magazines that I had purchased at a gun show - I have no idea of the mfg.

4. Clean your weapon on a regular basis. I do this for my CCW whether I've shot it or not. It's just a good practice to get in to.

5. Check your carry holster on a regular basis. I make custom holsters when I'm in AZ for the winter. In certain climates, the leather will dry out and it needs to be nourished like any other natural product. Unload your weapon and holster and un-holster your weapon to make sure that it doesn't hang up and it can be drawn quickly if need be.

Personally, I dont' see what the big hoopla is over when it comes to the price of a handgun and "what's your life worth". A person buys what they can afford. If you are going to use it for CCW, then put rounds through it and break it in - see which ammo shoots and functions best. The same goes for the caliber - it's whatever a person feels comfortable with. You like 357s or 9mm . . . great. My LCR is 357 and I carry it full of 38 spl. as I'm plenty comfortable that they will do the job. Only 5 shots . . . I'm comfortable with it for my normal situation. If I'm traveling in the boonies in AZ (we are 40 miles north of the border) I carry my SR9 as the situation is totally different than my usual trips to the city.

I'm mainly a "revolver guy". I own Colts, Smiths, Rugers, Heritage and others. I sold my 1911A1 as it wasn't my cup of tea . . . somebody bought it and I'm sure it is theirs which is fine. By putting $$$ as an indicator on how good a weapon is then I should be carrying my Colt Python since it is worth more than my LCR? Don't think so. The only reason I have kept the Python is for investment purposes . . . as a firearm, I hate it. To me it's a boat anchor. To the next guy, it might be the perfect gun.

In a SD situation . . . I don't care if you are seasoned LE or an ex seasoned combat veteran or somebody who has never been in a gun fight . . . you never know how you will react. Each time is different. When the chips are down, it's about knowing your weapon, being able to keep your head and reacting in a prudent and responsible manner. 50% is the weapon and 50% is what is behind the weapon.

If a person wants reliability . . . then keep your weapon clean, keep your ammo clean and practice, practice, practice. Regardless of the weapon, that's what "reliability" is all about.

dgludwig · September 5, 2012, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Clean your weapon on a regular basis. I do this for my CCW whether I've shot it or not. It's just a good practice to get in to.

Why would you clean (if by "clean", you mean really cleaning a weapon, not just wiping it down and giving it a cursory "once over") an already clean weapon? Seems unnecessarily redundant to me.

Winchester_73 · September 5, 2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

3. Semi-auto magazines - check them on a regular basis to make sure they are going to feed the cartridge up. This is easily done by simply unloading them. Some will say that you don't need to "rest' a spring loaded magazine - I disagree. I had a 1911A1 for a long time that I kept a loaded magazine in and hidden for home protection. I kept several extra magazines loaded as well. Upon inspection of the magazines one time, I discovered week springs in two of them that wouldn't feed the cartridge properly. Both were magazines that I had purchased at a gun show - I have no idea of the mfg.

This has been disproven many times. Apparently you bought cheap magazines. Springs aren't performing "work" unless they move, expand/contract. When they're extended or compressed, and left alone, they're fine. Since you have no idea the mfg of the mags, I'm willing to bet they were cheap knock offs.

Quote:

Say... This is a tool that may be needed to save your life one day, make sure its up to that task. Choose wisely in a budget you can afford, holding off a few weeks to have enough for something a little better may be a better way to go. Unless of course there is an immediate know danger to yourself and you need something soon.

Well I think to be offended (I don't know what to call your belief system about the question other than you being offended) you have to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, which you have. Since a CCW is meant to save your life, then I think, if asked appropriately, its a fair question to inspire someone to rethink buying a gun that needed internal work (the context of my thoughts in this thread). The gun was not worth the money saved and is not a trustworthy SD gun if when brand new, needed internal work. On the other hand, the work by the OP doesn't seem major, but the point is, it should have needed nothing of the sort if it was a good CCW to begin with. As a range gun, its a moot point - modifying to get it to work better.

Marine, stating it the way you suggested doesn't really get to the point as effectively. Sometimes its better to shake the person's "foundation" if you really want them to think, or re-think a choice. How we word this same basic question is like the difference between Charles Dickens and Hemmingway. Nothing wrong with Dickens, but short and to the point is often best. (I Know at times I will post a long winded post, but sometimes that is needed and I know Hemmingway wrote a few longer novels) Basically, the question that I pose is asked for the same reason that anyone would question a CCW, and somehow you find it offensive and/or counter productive. Coincidentally, by your own admission, you were mistreated by others who you claim were more "well-to-do" because of your upbringing. In reality, you are probably a better person in some ways now because of how you grew up. However, what this all boils down to is IMO, without your specific personal / social history, you wouldn't have your feelings about the question that some people pose the way I did. I can objectively judge a gun, and have my gun be judged the same way, without taking it personal. Others take it more personal than they should.

The "what is your life worth" is a question of appropriate spending, priorities, your life, etc and unless someone has your feelings, its not offensive at all IMO. I never used it to personally attack, to criticize a trustworthy gun (then suggest a H&K) or to make myself come off like I'm wealthy. I too earned my keep. Very few of the guns I have were given to me. I had to go out there, get "edumacated", get a job, and then go out and find guns that I liked. Many people who are "poor" could have made better choices in life, and others are very unlucky (true poor people), in bad situations, beyond their control, etc. In general, I assume that the person posting could make better decisions and acquire a better gun. Thats something perhaps that I need to re-think. Either way, I think being over sensitive to a question that you and other people take out of context is more pointless and counter productive than the original question can be viewed.

bedbugbilly · September 5, 2012, 03:07 PM

dgludwig - it may seem "redundant" to you but I carry in AZ where we often have high winds and dust and that fine dust can get into places you never thought possible . . . not to mention if I've carried in a coat pocket, etc. where lint can be picked up. I own and shoot a lot of different handguns . . and have for 50 + years. Cleaning on a regular basis for me does several things . . . it insures that barrel and chambers are clear, un-obstructed and clean and it also is a check on function and a reminder/refresher on the pistol that I'm carrying. If a person doesn't want to clean their pistol . . or if they've cleaned it after firing and don't want to do it again even though it may be a substantial time period between shooting sessions - that's their option. to some it may seem a OCD, but at least I know that my weapon is clear and functional. For the very few minutes it takes to run a patch down the barrel and through the chambers and then re-oil lightly, for me, it's time well spent.

In regards to semi-auto mags and the possibility of spring problems . . . I'm glad it has been "disproved" many times. Yes, the mags that I purchased may have been cheap ones and low quality. Again, checking this on a regular basis is a personal preference . . . if you are certain that you will never have a problem, then don't check 'em. I'm not a mechanical engineer nor do I profess to be . . . all I know is that I had a problem and I've known others who have as well. I find it interesting that so many do "mods" to their magazines - get the Dremel out and polish, etc. - why is this necessary if the magazine is a quality one? All it takes is a minute once in a while to thumb the cartridges out of a magazine to make sure that the spring is working properly and that there isn't a problem and then reload . . . but . . . if a person is 100% sure there won't be a problem with it, then don't do it.

It's kind of like an automobile . . . if it's working O.K., then why do any maintenance on it . . . after all, it's never given a problem . . . so when you go on a trip and it breaks down in the middle of nowhere . . . that's not the time to say "I should have gone over it before I left town . . . ".

wayneinFL · September 5, 2012, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Tried black powder once. Never could see where my bullets hit, by the time the smoke cleared, the dust had settled.

That's the whole point. You don't even have to hit the bad guy. Just empty a brace of cap and ball revolvers in his general direction and escape in the cloud of smoke.

Quote:

Why would you clean (if by "clean", you mean really cleaning a weapon, not just wiping it down and giving it a cursory "once over") an already clean weapon? Seems unnecessarily redundant to me.

I clean a carry gun at least once a month, usually just field strip, and patch the bore with break-free, wipe the crud out of the slide rails. I'm often surprised how much crud gets in there after a few weeks. This happens in pockets with a holster, without a holster, IWB, or OWB. I usually find I'm not cleaning a clean gun. In any case, I don't see what it hurts.

pete2 · September 6, 2012, 11:30 AM

A new gun should work without anything other than a field strip and clean. If the gun is clean and you have a good magazine it should work. If you have to go thru it and polish and debur then the mfg. failed to provide a serviceable product. We do get new guns that aren't up to snuff and it really makes me sick. It can be a Kimber, Browning, S&W, any brand but some mfgs let out more than their fair share. You wouldn't believe how many guns we got back at Bass Pro from one particular mfg.

Tactical Jackalope · September 6, 2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

A new gun should work without anything other than a field strip and clean. If the gun is clean and you have a good magazine it should work. If you have to go thru it and polish and debur then the mfg. failed to provide a serviceable product. We do get new guns that aren't up to snuff and it really makes me sick. It can be a Kimber, Browning, S&W, any brand but some mfgs let out more than their fair share.

Well said...

orionengnr · September 6, 2012, 07:11 PM

A number of far more qualified individuals than I seem to be of the opinion that the Dremel tool (in the wrong hands) has damaged/ruined more semi-auto pistols than rust, mechanical damage, and all other factors combined.

Having seen just a couple of examples myself, I tend to agree...

pete2 · September 7, 2012, 11:46 AM

There is no problem so large that a Dremel tool can't make it even larger.

August 31, 2012, 09:20 PM	#26
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	The "whats your life worth" argument was brought back up again... Its like some people don't understand the term "budget"... Some people would love to own a nice HK, Sig, Colt, etc, etc... But they can't even afford to buy a used Glock. There are people out there that find it hard to save $150 over the course of several months or more... Live paycheck to paycheck, always worried they can't pay rent this month... or the alternator on the car goes out, and now all they can afford to eat is pinto beans for the next month... You really expect them to save up $800+ for a new gun? Then there are those that are not so bad off, but $400 dollars spent on something less than directly practical, like a tv or gun is a big consideration... and the intangible what if/maybe scenario of needing to defend oneself sometime in the unknown future is even more hard to justify. When a bad guy is in front of you, the $150 Hi-point in your hands now... is a hell of a lot better than the $800 Sig still sitting in the display case at the gun shop. Just because you can afford to spend the $800... even if you have to save for several months... Does not make you a better person or better as a gun owner... Don't forget that there are those much less fortunate than you... And they deserve to have the ability to defend themselves just like anyone else... they are not inferior just because they are poor. I've lived the "pinto bean poor" life as a child... We were not on welfare or food stamps... My parents were too proud for that, both worked long hours to keep bills paid... They would work so long of hours, that me and my sister had to learn responsibility young. We got ourselves up for school and handled most of the household chores. (including cooking when we got old enough... about 12-13) I often lived in some shady trailer parks in small town Alabama... definitely some white trash places full of questionable motives. One day when I was about 7, the sole of my shoes started coming loose, soon it got so bad that I let my parents know... my mom said I would have to wait until she could save up enough for a cheap pair, and that I might just need to use duck tape or something until then... My dad didn't like the idea of sending me off to school like that. We went to walmart and I got a cheapo pair of $10-15 shoes... that little bit of money spent on shoes wiped out our food budget, and we had to eat pinto beans every day for a week. Did I or my family not deserve the same as everyone else? (At least within our capabilities anyway, we didn't do handouts) Fortunately I am no longer in that situation, as I grew older, our lives improved, we managed to get into a house in a better neighborhood. I finished school and pursued well paying fields... and my mother is doing much better now. Finally got a decent paying job, and she is remarried to an engineer, they just built a real nice house as they approach retirement. She deserves it... she worked long hours sometimes two jobs and even attended college courses at night for a while. Ok... end long tangent filled rant Last edited by marine6680; August 31, 2012 at 09:31 PM.

August 31, 2012, 10:30 PM	#28
warningshot Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2009 Posts: 995	I'm with snyper85 I had to set the timing on my brand new Echo Chain Saw with 10 pound sledge hammer one time. Didn't hurt the hammer at all.

September 4, 2012, 07:56 PM	#39
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Wow. I tuned in to this thread as I thought thee might be some tips on insuring your handgun is maintained and reliable if needed. So far, we've had a debate over Dremel Tools . . . or maybe and advertisement . . . can't decide which yet . . . another debate over "what is your life worth" and some feuds. What gives? A handgun or any weapon is a piece of machinery and all machinery must be maintained. It doesn't matter if it's a cheap Saturday night special or a custom Colt . . . it needs to be maintained. My tips: 1. If you carry a "pocket" gun, safety says it should be in some type of holster in the pocket which will prevent accidental firing yet allow it to be easily drawn. That said, some folks do sometimes carry their handgun (semi or revolver) in their pocket. I carry a 357 LCR on a belt holster but at times, I do slide it in to my pocket late at night if I'm taking the dogs out. The biggest problems with carrying in any pocket is "lint". It can accumulate and cause your weapon to not function or it can build up in the bore. Solution - make sure your weapon is unloaded and check the bore, cylinder (on a revolver) and other areas to make sure none has accumulated. 2. Check your ammunition regularly. Some folks keep the same ammo in their weapon for weeks on end, never checking it. Ynload your cylinder or clip on a regular basis and inspect your cartridges. On my LCR, I do this once a week at least and usually rotate ne cartridges into the cylinder. This also goes for speed loaders, etc. Make sure they are functioning properly. 3. Semi-auto magazines - check them on a regular basis to make sure they are going to feed the cartridge up. This is easily done by simply unloading them. Some will say that you don't need to "rest' a spring loaded magazine - I disagree. I had a 1911A1 for a long time that I kept a loaded magazine in and hidden for home protection. I kept several extra magazines loaded as well. Upon inspection of the magazines one time, I discovered week springs in two of them that wouldn't feed the cartridge properly. Both were magazines that I had purchased at a gun show - I have no idea of the mfg. 4. Clean your weapon on a regular basis. I do this for my CCW whether I've shot it or not. It's just a good practice to get in to. 5. Check your carry holster on a regular basis. I make custom holsters when I'm in AZ for the winter. In certain climates, the leather will dry out and it needs to be nourished like any other natural product. Unload your weapon and holster and un-holster your weapon to make sure that it doesn't hang up and it can be drawn quickly if need be. Personally, I dont' see what the big hoopla is over when it comes to the price of a handgun and "what's your life worth". A person buys what they can afford. If you are going to use it for CCW, then put rounds through it and break it in - see which ammo shoots and functions best. The same goes for the caliber - it's whatever a person feels comfortable with. You like 357s or 9mm . . . great. My LCR is 357 and I carry it full of 38 spl. as I'm plenty comfortable that they will do the job. Only 5 shots . . . I'm comfortable with it for my normal situation. If I'm traveling in the boonies in AZ (we are 40 miles north of the border) I carry my SR9 as the situation is totally different than my usual trips to the city. I'm mainly a "revolver guy". I own Colts, Smiths, Rugers, Heritage and others. I sold my 1911A1 as it wasn't my cup of tea . . . somebody bought it and I'm sure it is theirs which is fine. By putting $$$ as an indicator on how good a weapon is then I should be carrying my Colt Python since it is worth more than my LCR? Don't think so. The only reason I have kept the Python is for investment purposes . . . as a firearm, I hate it. To me it's a boat anchor. To the next guy, it might be the perfect gun. In a SD situation . . . I don't care if you are seasoned LE or an ex seasoned combat veteran or somebody who has never been in a gun fight . . . you never know how you will react. Each time is different. When the chips are down, it's about knowing your weapon, being able to keep your head and reacting in a prudent and responsible manner. 50% is the weapon and 50% is what is behind the weapon. If a person wants reliability . . . then keep your weapon clean, keep your ammo clean and practice, practice, practice. Regardless of the weapon, that's what "reliability" is all about. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

September 5, 2012, 03:07 PM	#42
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	dgludwig - it may seem "redundant" to you but I carry in AZ where we often have high winds and dust and that fine dust can get into places you never thought possible . . . not to mention if I've carried in a coat pocket, etc. where lint can be picked up. I own and shoot a lot of different handguns . . and have for 50 + years. Cleaning on a regular basis for me does several things . . . it insures that barrel and chambers are clear, un-obstructed and clean and it also is a check on function and a reminder/refresher on the pistol that I'm carrying. If a person doesn't want to clean their pistol . . or if they've cleaned it after firing and don't want to do it again even though it may be a substantial time period between shooting sessions - that's their option. to some it may seem a OCD, but at least I know that my weapon is clear and functional. For the very few minutes it takes to run a patch down the barrel and through the chambers and then re-oil lightly, for me, it's time well spent. In regards to semi-auto mags and the possibility of spring problems . . . I'm glad it has been "disproved" many times. Yes, the mags that I purchased may have been cheap ones and low quality. Again, checking this on a regular basis is a personal preference . . . if you are certain that you will never have a problem, then don't check 'em. I'm not a mechanical engineer nor do I profess to be . . . all I know is that I had a problem and I've known others who have as well. I find it interesting that so many do "mods" to their magazines - get the Dremel out and polish, etc. - why is this necessary if the magazine is a quality one? All it takes is a minute once in a while to thumb the cartridges out of a magazine to make sure that the spring is working properly and that there isn't a problem and then reload . . . but . . . if a person is 100% sure there won't be a problem with it, then don't do it. It's kind of like an automobile . . . if it's working O.K., then why do any maintenance on it . . . after all, it's never given a problem . . . so when you go on a trip and it breaks down in the middle of nowhere . . . that's not the time to say "I should have gone over it before I left town . . . ". __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

August 31, 2012, 09:33 PM	#27
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	You still wearing those Walmart shoes?

August 31, 2012, 11:44 PM	#30
snyper85 Member Join Date: June 25, 2011 Posts: 26	+1 marine6680.

August 31, 2012, 11:55 PM	#31
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	The post was a bit long and rant'y... Basically, I find that the "whats your life worth" argument pointless and counter productive. It tends to come off as condescending or uninformed. Some simply can not afford to spend a lot, we need to be willing to help and steer those people to something that not only can they afford but will also serve them well. Be it a cheap used S&W revolver, or an even cheaper Hi-point 9mm. There are some cheap brands to avoid, but some function well despite the low cost and crude manufacturing.

September 1, 2012, 09:10 AM	#33
osbornk Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2012 Location: Mountains of Appalachia Posts: 1,598	There is a difference between buying smart and buying the "best". I research the products I want and buy the most economical product that reliably gets the job done. You don't need a Mercedes to deiver the mail or a sledge hammer to drive a tack.

September 1, 2012, 09:45 AM	#35
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	New shooters or people who are just getting involved in guns are just like we once were. I when I was in junior high school bought pistols for $100.00. They weren't cheapos some were smiths some were Cheapos. But I started somewhere and now I know what I had, I understand what I want now and I got to do what has to be done to get it. My best gun so far is a Glock 22 gen 4 and new it only costed $419.00. For a gun that's not terrible expensive. And if I had no money or little money. I'd either save to pay the 400 in payments or buy a used gun for cheaper. They're out there from time to timeayne not around every corner but they are. But I wouldn't get a el cheapo and grind this, bend this and flitz this to make it shoot. In the end you still have a el cheapo that is unreliable and prob full of problems continually. I know the Op is talking about helping his gun function that's all, and is prob a great gun but then that one poster got panties in a wad about being poor and none of his post made sense to me. Everyone mainly will start out and upgrade through the years. Some will start off with Sigs or HKs. So, I dont care. I'm still doing what I'm going to do in the end., staying away from el cheapo. But I do love pinto beans.

September 1, 2012, 10:33 AM	#36
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	I didn't mean to be overly sensitive... I'm not in a huge huff over here. I just never find it a productive way to go about things. I have people reply with that argument, and never actually contribute, they parrot the same thing several times in the same thread. "Get something more expensive" "I can't afford to" "don't care do it anyway" I'm not saying anyone in this thread has done so.

September 1, 2012, 07:59 PM	#38
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	(Lets get off my life... as its really not that important to the point at hand.) It isn't so much inappropriate in essence, but how its gone about. Instead of "whats your life worth" Say... This is a tool that may be needed to save your life one day, make sure its up to that task. Choose wisely in a budget you can afford, holding off a few weeks to have enough for something a little better may be a better way to go. Unless of course there is an immediate know danger to yourself and you need something soon. Sure, it doesn't roll off the tongue as well... but it more clearly states the intended goal. And admittingly, those in immediate danger are not very likely to be on here, but those in bad neighborhoods may be.

September 6, 2012, 11:30 AM	#44
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	A new gun should work without anything other than a field strip and clean. If the gun is clean and you have a good magazine it should work. If you have to go thru it and polish and debur then the mfg. failed to provide a serviceable product. We do get new guns that aren't up to snuff and it really makes me sick. It can be a Kimber, Browning, S&W, any brand but some mfgs let out more than their fair share. You wouldn't believe how many guns we got back at Bass Pro from one particular mfg.

September 6, 2012, 07:11 PM	#46
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,177	A number of far more qualified individuals than I seem to be of the opinion that the Dremel tool (in the wrong hands) has damaged/ruined more semi-auto pistols than rust, mechanical damage, and all other factors combined. Having seen just a couple of examples myself, I tend to agree...

September 7, 2012, 11:46 AM	#47
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	There is no problem so large that a Dremel tool can't make it even larger.