GOA email about American Affordable Health Care Act and 2A rights

LDSGJA · February 24, 2011, 11:01 PM

So I got this email from GOA today about "Obama-Care" being "anti-gun" and how it needs to get defunded.

The email also talked about ATF, but how in the world is the healthcare reform law anti-gun? Seems like they are just gaming people into supporting them for things that have nothing to do with 2a rights.

Am I missing something?

Quote:

House Votes to Put Anti-gun ObamaCare and ATF on Chopping Block

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://gunowners.org

Thursday, February 24, 2011

Last Friday, the House tacked defunding of the anti-gun ObamaCare law onto the "continuing resolution," which is required to fund the federal government through September 30.

In a series of four votes, the House approved:

* An amendment offered by Rep. Denny Rehberg (R-MT) to defund ObamaCare for the next six months;

* Two amendments sponsored by Rep. Steve King (R-IA) to defund previously appropriated provisions of ObamaCare; and,

* An amendment offered by Rep. Jo Ann Emerson (R-MO) to defund IRS implementation of the "individual mandate," which is the ObamaCare requirement that forces Americans to cough up their medical information which could later be used by the FBI to block gun purchases (and forces them to buy government-approved insurance).

In addition, the House, by a sizable majority, adopted the Boren-Rehberg amendment to defund ATF's efforts to create a new gun registry for many multiple gun sales. (Rep. Dan Boren is a Democrat from Oklahoma.)

Gun Owners of America contacted every member of the House of Representatives prior to the vote on the Boren-Rehberg amendment. This is an important provision that will stop the ATF's attempts to illegally register gun owners.

Since last year, the ATF has been trying to require licensed firearms dealers (in some states) to report to the government the sale of two or more semi-automatic rifles that are .22 caliber or greater, that can accept a detachable magazine, and that are purchased by the same person within five business days.

The House's actions last week put us in a position where 41 senators can force Democrats to either:

1. Defund the anti-gun ObamaCare, plus ATF's unlawful gun registry; or

2. Shut down the non-essential functions of the Obama administration, including ATF.

Shutting down the ATF would represent a boon for gun owners' rights. (Click here to see GOA's report on the most recent egregious abuse by the ATF .)

The fight to defang the ATF -- and to repeal ObamaCare -- are two top priorities at Gun Owners of America.

Given that there are 47 Republicans in the Senate -- and 51 senators who purport to oppose ObamaCare's mandate that you buy insurance you don't want -- you would think that defunding ObamaCare and the ATF would be an imminently winnable fight, right?

Well, let's hope so. Because you can be sure of this... if the shoe were on the other foot, Senator Barack Obama (in 2008) would NOT have shied away from shutting down the non-essential functions of the Bush administration in order to get his way.

Heck, no!

The good news is that we have the vehicle to kill ObamaCare and the ATF's unlawful multiple sales registry -- if we just have the will to do so.

ACTION: Contact your two Senators and insist they filibuster any version of the "continuing resolution" which does not defund ObamaCare and bar funds for ATF's unlawful multiple gun sales registry.

You can click on the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center to send a pre-written message to your Senators.

carguychris · February 25, 2011, 11:34 AM

AFAIK the PPACA does not contain any provisions directly related to gun control.

The GOA, along with some other libertarian groups, has been fixated for some time on the electronic record-keeping requirements in PPACA. The electronic medical record system could theoretically someday be tapped by law enforcement and connected to the NICS system, presumably to deny people from buying firearms. OTOH the key phrase here is "theoretically someday". AFAIK the PPACA does not contain provisions directly allowing law enforcement to access these records for any specific purpose, much less expanding NICS.

There's also been some concern that the now-infamous Section 9006 over-$600 IRS transaction reporting requirement could be used as a form of backdoor gun registration, but the GOA press release doesn't seem to address this directly. One theory is that the ATF could use it to track over-$600 used-gun purchases by accessing IRS reports from FFLs. Another theory is that the insurance companies will somehow get this information too and use it to identify people who have bought guns so they can be charged higher rates for "unsafe" behavior.

More here:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2009...-aim-obamacare

My take? I don't think any of this is very credible, RKBA activists should have bigger fish to fry, and the GOA is pandering to people looking for every possible excuse to oppose Obamacare.

mehavey · February 25, 2011, 11:55 AM

Having worn the uniform for 34 years, I'm not exactly an anti-establishement guy. But I do worry about the increasing amount of personal information that is becoming both mandatory, and electronically compiled into databases.

I will simply observe that while such data may not now be used to the individual's detriment....

... it exists, and it eventually will be used for someone else's agenda.

"Trust me" doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy....

carguychris · February 25, 2011, 01:50 PM

Quote:

But I do worry about the increasing amount of personal information that is becoming both mandatory, and electronically compiled into databases.

I'm worried about this too.

However, although the PPACA mandates the creation of a medical records database (which largely already exists), it's not a gun database, and it would take several more legislative steps to make it into anything remotely resembling one.

Labeling a measure as "anti-gun" merely because it creates a database- any database- is a stretch IMHO. OTOH at least the GOA has been consistent about this in the past, as they don't have many nice things to say about the DHS or the TSA either.

jmortimer · February 25, 2011, 10:02 PM

It appears that not only is GOA rightly concerned about Government access to medical records and the potential to use information to infringe on the RKBA but also the amendments to the bill which are specifically related to firearms. Just becasue the bill relates to healthcare does not mean that crazy or good amendments will not be tacked on as is the case here. We need to get a civics lesson on the legislative process. Thank God for the GOA as their endorsements were followed by the voters in the last election and not the NRA endorsements and the good guys/gals took control of the house. What if the NRA endorsements had been followed and Pelosi were still the speaker of the house. Again, Thank God for the GOA.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 25, 2011, 10:45 PM

If data exists, the government will want to be able to access it.

That's not based on theory, that's based on history. Heck, various levels of government bend over backward to maintain databases they aren't supposed to maintain, using flimsy excuses like, "Well, the way we record these we might have missed someone, some time, so it's not a complete listing and therefore it's not a database." Does anyone seriously believe that the .gov won't be pounding at the doors to access a pile of records that third parties have neatly assembled and compiled?

Oh, yeah.

A long time ago, on (IIRC) The High Road (pre-split), someone suggested that if you ever need mental health care, drive to a city other than where you live, use an assumed name, and pay cash.

That was before the Patriot Act and Obamacare. Both of those laws IMHO simply show that the gentleman was remarkable prescient.

Standing Wolf · February 26, 2011, 08:22 PM

Quote:

If data exists, the government will want to be able to access it.
That's not based on theory, that's based on history.

Most unfortunately, that's correct. So-called "health care reform," unless it's unplugged, will make a great deal of private information accessible to a great many more people, more than a few of whom are openly declared anti-Second Amendment bigots. The best time to stop it is before a small-looking potential problem develops overnight into massive, systematic infringement.

Bartholomew Roberts · February 27, 2011, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmortimer

Thank God for the GOA as their endorsements were followed by the voters in the last election and not the NRA endorsements and the good guys/gals took control of the house. What if the NRA endorsements had been followed and Pelosi were still the speaker of the house. Again, Thank God for the GOA.

The NRA endorsed 58 Democrats in the House. Assuming all 58 had been elected, Rep. John Boehner would still be Speaker of the House. Realistically, there was never even the slightest danger that NRA endorsements would lead to Pelosi being elected Speaker of the House. In fact, some of the same Democrats the NRA endorsed (Heath Shuler) challenged Pelosi for her new position as Minority Leader. GOA in contrast, only endorsed 65 candidates in the House total compared to 282 for the NRA.

Currently, the House has 262 A-Rated members, of which 227 received an NRA endorsement.

johnbt · February 28, 2011, 10:34 AM

More GOA drivel.

John

P.S. - "If data exists, the government will want to be able to access it."

You don't think NSA already has access to everything? If they don't they aren't doing their job.

February 25, 2011, 11:34 AM	#2
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	AFAIK the PPACA does not contain any provisions directly related to gun control. The GOA, along with some other libertarian groups, has been fixated for some time on the electronic record-keeping requirements in PPACA. The electronic medical record system could theoretically someday be tapped by law enforcement and connected to the NICS system, presumably to deny people from buying firearms. OTOH the key phrase here is "theoretically someday". AFAIK the PPACA does not contain provisions directly allowing law enforcement to access these records for any specific purpose, much less expanding NICS. There's also been some concern that the now-infamous Section 9006 over-$600 IRS transaction reporting requirement could be used as a form of backdoor gun registration, but the GOA press release doesn't seem to address this directly. One theory is that the ATF could use it to track over-$600 used-gun purchases by accessing IRS reports from FFLs. Another theory is that the insurance companies will somehow get this information too and use it to identify people who have bought guns so they can be charged higher rates for "unsafe" behavior. More here: http://motherjones.com/politics/2009...-aim-obamacare My take? I don't think any of this is very credible, RKBA activists should have bigger fish to fry, and the GOA is pandering to people looking for every possible excuse to oppose Obamacare. __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

February 25, 2011, 11:55 AM	#3
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,886	Having worn the uniform for 34 years, I'm not exactly an anti-establishement guy. But I do worry about the increasing amount of personal information that is becoming both mandatory, and electronically compiled into databases. I will simply observe that while such data may not now be used to the individual's detriment.... ... it exists, and it eventually will be used for someone else's agenda. "Trust me" doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy.... Last edited by mehavey; February 25, 2011 at 12:00 PM.

February 25, 2011, 10:02 PM	#5
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	It appears that not only is GOA rightly concerned about Government access to medical records and the potential to use information to infringe on the RKBA but also the amendments to the bill which are specifically related to firearms. Just becasue the bill relates to healthcare does not mean that crazy or good amendments will not be tacked on as is the case here. We need to get a civics lesson on the legislative process. Thank God for the GOA as their endorsements were followed by the voters in the last election and not the NRA endorsements and the good guys/gals took control of the house. What if the NRA endorsements had been followed and Pelosi were still the speaker of the house. Again, Thank God for the GOA.

February 25, 2011, 10:45 PM	#6
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	If data exists, the government will want to be able to access it. That's not based on theory, that's based on history. Heck, various levels of government bend over backward to maintain databases they aren't supposed to maintain, using flimsy excuses like, "Well, the way we record these we might have missed someone, some time, so it's not a complete listing and therefore it's not a database." Does anyone seriously believe that the .gov won't be pounding at the doors to access a pile of records that third parties have neatly assembled and compiled? Oh, yeah. A long time ago, on (IIRC) The High Road (pre-split), someone suggested that if you ever need mental health care, drive to a city other than where you live, use an assumed name, and pay cash. That was before the Patriot Act and Obamacare. Both of those laws IMHO simply show that the gentleman was remarkable prescient.

February 28, 2011, 10:34 AM	#9
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	More GOA drivel. John P.S. - "If data exists, the government will want to be able to access it." You don't think NSA already has access to everything? If they don't they aren't doing their job.