Please join me in flaming these morons!

Preacherman · November 3, 2002, 10:48 PM

I'd like to draw the attention of all TFL'ers to the e-mail below, which I have just received. It reveals the absolutely horrendous insensitivity displayed by the Golden State Warriors of California. I've already sent them an e-mail, as requested by the sender, and I'd like to urge everyone to join in flaming these idiots as they deserve.

Many thanks.

Preacherman
__________

----- Original Message -----
Dishonoring an Honor Guard

Chuck,

I have been a subscriber to your newsletter for a few months now, and I thought you would be interested in this story...

I have been a police officer in the SF Bay Area for nine years, and I am a member of my department's Ceremonial Honor Guard. We perform parades, flag presentations, burial services and memorial services for fallen police officers, and other ceremonial functions. We perform our services for NO PAY (or any other compensation). We do it on our own time, and only for the honor of representing our country, our flag, our department, and those who have served before us.

On Friday (11/1/02), we sent a four-man flag detail (including me) to the Oakland Arena to present the colors at the Golden State Warriors basketball game. This was done as the result of a request by the Golden State Warriors. As you might expect, we brought the California flag, the United States flag, and two unloaded rifles for the ceremony.

When we got to the arena, we were asked by Warriors representatives to leave the rifles in our car. We were told that the Warriors front office did not want to "scare" anyone by having the rifles in the arena. Let me be perfectly clear about this...all four members of the Honor Guard are CURRENT police officers who were in FULL DRESS UNIFORM, including LOADED handguns. As a sidenote, we are ALL former military (2 Army, 2 Marine Corps) with over 50 years of military experience between us.

Our commander told the Warriors front office that we were prepared to do the presentation of the colors WITH the rifle element, but as a matter of principle, we would not go on without them. The Warriors front office left us in limbo for about an hour, before telling us they would not be needing our services that evening. We rolled up our flags, and left without delay.

I am still a bit in shock. Have we gotten to the point in this country that the sight of four uniformed police officers holding unloaded rifles in a ceremonial flag presentation causes panic among the public? To those in the Warriors front office, it seems we have. What a shame.

Jeff Snell

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Um, you know how I hate to stir up trouble (yeah, right), but if you're as ticked off at this most recent example of hysterical anti-gun, politically-correct stupidity as I am, then you might just want to join me in contacting the Public Relations department of the so-called "Warriors" front office at: [email protected], or call or write to:

Golden State Warriors
Department of Weenies
1011 Broadway
Oakland, CA 94607
(510) 986-2200

Here's what I'm sending. Borrow as you see fit. You can even cut and paste and simply write "Ditto" in the Subject line if you like:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

To whom it may concern,

It has come to my attention that Warriors' management refused to allow an Honor Guard of police professionals - all military veterans - to present the colors at Friday's game because the contingent included - along with the American and California state flags -two unloaded rifles which might "scare" people.

Are you folks nuts? What were you thinking?

You should immediately invite the Honor Guard back for the next Warriors home game and open up the activities with a personal apology delivered at center court by the hysterical "genius" who was responsible for this ridiculous decision.

What an insult to our public safety professionals and military veterans. You should be ashamed.

Chuck Muth
1315 Wilson Point Road
Middle River, MD 21220
[email protected]

cc: Jon Becker, Sports Editor, Oakland Tribune
[email protected]

*********************************
*********************************
Distributed by The Goldwater Club
Chuck Muth, President
P.O. Box 19893
Alexandria, VA 22320
E-mail: [email protected]
# # #

**Bud Helms** · November 3, 2002, 11:32 PM

Already posted here in L&P this AM, Preacherman.

Drjones · November 4, 2002, 03:56 AM

Oh, the bleating is deafening!!!

Baaaaaaaaahhhhhhh....

Yet another reason why I hate sports.

geegee · November 4, 2002, 08:59 AM

What is it about California? This is the same place that when hosting the Democratic National Convention before the 2000 elections, booed the Eagle Scout Color Guard as they marched in the American Flag to open a session of their convention

I suppose in all fairness, one couldn't say that all those booing were Californians, but really....

What a place. geegee

cor-man · November 4, 2002, 10:34 AM

Thanks folks for your comments, I've plajiarized the other letters to come up with one myself to send, here it is below.

If anyone wants to see the pic I attached lemme know and I'll email it to you, but you may have seen it around Halloween time, it's a pic of a middleaged out of shape guy in a "spiderman" costume....only he's not actually wearing spandex (it's just body paint, pretty gross but somewhat funny pic, I surely can't post it here).

------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]
------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected], [email protected]
------------------------------------------------------------

It has come to my attention that Warriors' management refused to allow an Honor Guard of police professionals - all military veterans - to present the colors at Friday's game because the contingent included - along with the American and California state flags -two unloaded rifles which might "scare" people.

This is as shameful as it gets; as YOUR STATE continues to spew out pure trash filmography depicting unsafe, illegal, profane uses of firearms, and glorifying such behavior.

Perhaps you think that the man in the picture attached would be more appropriate for a ceremony at one of your games.

Your ridiculous fear of guns sickens me to no end. Cities in YOUR STATE have more gang violence than any other, yet not one of those gangbangers is abiding by gun laws; so where do gun laws help stop violence? Gun laws only disarm LAW-ABIDING citizens; turning virtually every citizen into a defenseless victim. GEE, that's the very reason your criminals know they can commit so much violence. None of YOUR state's violence percentage per-capita ever occurs in MY state of Kentucky because we are allowed an effective means of self-defense.

As terrorists attack us on our soil, I'd like to see you on the front lines protesting the arming of our service men and women; so the world can see how ridiculous your anti-gun rhetoric is.

When you are attacked, and call the police, I hope an unarmed janitor comes instead, because you obviously have an irrational fear of guns.

The fact that these men; the VERY REASON you have freedom of speech and freedom of press, is something you reject because of your personal bias against the 2nd Amendment, is unconstitutional.

You are lying to yourselves just like the fabled ostrich sticking its head in the sand. When you're bent down sticking your head in the sand guess what's sticking up into the air just waiting to get poked? (oh that's right, many of YOU would enjoy that).

When men dressed in full uniform, with sidearms and rifles; presenting our colors walking by; some of us REAL AMERICANS have even been known to stand up and salute, knowing that persons like them who have the courage to take up arms are the very reason we live in a free society; without such people we would be in a soup line in Russia, or all speaking German.

Patriotism is understanding that freedom always comes at a price, and acknowledging the men and women who continue to watch the fort as we sleep soundly at night.

The Golden State Warriors apparently is a xxxx poor representation of "The Golden State". Second, it is a xxxx poor representation of "Warriors". You should be called the "The Fraidy-Cat State Wimps" as you are not fit to be representing any state in this union, and certainly I see no Warriors or bravehearts amongst you.

You should immediately invite the Honor Guard back for the next Warriors home game and open up the activities with a personal apology delivered at center court by the hysterical "genius" who was responsible for this ridiculous decision.

What an insult to our public safety professionals and military veterans. You should be ashamed.

------------------------------------------------------------

ehenz · November 4, 2002, 12:17 PM

cor-man,

You were making a good point up until your anti-gay comments, then your whole letter turned to crap.

We should try to keep our personal bias out of letters that are meant to address constitutional issues. Otherwise, we all sound like were from Kentucky, so to speak.

Regards,

ehenz

MicroBalrog · November 4, 2002, 01:09 PM

Good Day!
I've just hear about how the Warriors' management didn't allow Honor Guard of police professionals to present the colors at Friday's game because the contingent included two unloaded rifles which might "scare" people. This is just as sick as sick can get. The rifles, were, I repeat, unloaded, and presented no danger. Do you indeed believe that could scare people? I live in Israel, where off-duty soldiers carry assault rifles in the streets, and that doesn't scare anyone. The true reason is, I suspect, your employees' irrational fear of firearms (which, as many psychologists have pointed out, stems from fear of responsibilty and suppressed immaturity) and bigoted attitude towards gun ownership. I believe you owe these people an apology.
SY,
Boris Karpa, Bat-Yam, Israel
972-3-5080974

John Lawson · November 4, 2002, 03:41 PM

That is the land of peapickers, picnickers and plaquelickers.
So, what's unusual?

MikeK · November 4, 2002, 04:03 PM

Even in Montgomery County Maryland, the High School ROTC gets to use rifles in their ceremonies. They are probably not functional, but 'll bet most of the audience doesn't know that.

**Bud Helms** · November 4, 2002, 04:13 PM

cor-man,

Look at the bottom of your posting window and find the little blue PM bar. Click on it. Read your PMs. Talk to me via the REPLY button.

- sensop

Shalako · November 4, 2002, 04:41 PM

Umm, have you guys ever been to Oakland? Oakland, California? Its not exactly hometown, USA with apple pie, hot dog eating contests and a veterans day pararde with your Uncle Milton in it. I love that kind of stuff. Oakland is the poster child for the modern inner city, complete with crimes(homicides) of entertainment and a youth population mentored by angry felonious role models. Those folks you are mad at, the ones trying to rescue that cesspool, are trying to say if no one ever sees a gun maybe there will be less crime.

I'm pretty sure most there see guns everyday in a less than an uplifting manner. It's just that the samaritans of Oakland are burned out on any and all use of guns. Plus, uniforms and guns wouldn't usually evoke joy from the bulk of Oakland's populace.

Personally, I'd greatly appreciate seeing the honor guard and would emphatically support their servitude. Its about respect. I just don't think the inner city 'mindset' currently has the maturity to understand the responsible use of firearms.

I always try to remember, "Pick your battles." Oakland is a battle ground I try to stay the hell away from. My $.02

-Shalako

November 3, 2002, 10:48 PM	#1
Preacherman Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2002 Posts: 791	Please join me in flaming these morons! I'd like to draw the attention of all TFL'ers to the e-mail below, which I have just received. It reveals the absolutely horrendous insensitivity displayed by the Golden State Warriors of California. I've already sent them an e-mail, as requested by the sender, and I'd like to urge everyone to join in flaming these idiots as they deserve. Many thanks. Preacherman __________ ----- Original Message ----- Dishonoring an Honor Guard Chuck, I have been a subscriber to your newsletter for a few months now, and I thought you would be interested in this story... I have been a police officer in the SF Bay Area for nine years, and I am a member of my department's Ceremonial Honor Guard. We perform parades, flag presentations, burial services and memorial services for fallen police officers, and other ceremonial functions. We perform our services for NO PAY (or any other compensation). We do it on our own time, and only for the honor of representing our country, our flag, our department, and those who have served before us. On Friday (11/1/02), we sent a four-man flag detail (including me) to the Oakland Arena to present the colors at the Golden State Warriors basketball game. This was done as the result of a request by the Golden State Warriors. As you might expect, we brought the California flag, the United States flag, and two unloaded rifles for the ceremony. When we got to the arena, we were asked by Warriors representatives to leave the rifles in our car. We were told that the Warriors front office did not want to "scare" anyone by having the rifles in the arena. Let me be perfectly clear about this...all four members of the Honor Guard are CURRENT police officers who were in FULL DRESS UNIFORM, including LOADED handguns. As a sidenote, we are ALL former military (2 Army, 2 Marine Corps) with over 50 years of military experience between us. Our commander told the Warriors front office that we were prepared to do the presentation of the colors WITH the rifle element, but as a matter of principle, we would not go on without them. The Warriors front office left us in limbo for about an hour, before telling us they would not be needing our services that evening. We rolled up our flags, and left without delay. I am still a bit in shock. Have we gotten to the point in this country that the sight of four uniformed police officers holding unloaded rifles in a ceremonial flag presentation causes panic among the public? To those in the Warriors front office, it seems we have. What a shame. Jeff Snell - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Um, you know how I hate to stir up trouble (yeah, right), but if you're as ticked off at this most recent example of hysterical anti-gun, politically-correct stupidity as I am, then you might just want to join me in contacting the Public Relations department of the so-called "Warriors" front office at: [email protected], or call or write to: Golden State Warriors Department of Weenies 1011 Broadway Oakland, CA 94607 (510) 986-2200 Here's what I'm sending. Borrow as you see fit. You can even cut and paste and simply write "Ditto" in the Subject line if you like: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To whom it may concern, It has come to my attention that Warriors' management refused to allow an Honor Guard of police professionals - all military veterans - to present the colors at Friday's game because the contingent included - along with the American and California state flags -two unloaded rifles which might "scare" people. Are you folks nuts? What were you thinking? You should immediately invite the Honor Guard back for the next Warriors home game and open up the activities with a personal apology delivered at center court by the hysterical "genius" who was responsible for this ridiculous decision. What an insult to our public safety professionals and military veterans. You should be ashamed. Chuck Muth 1315 Wilson Point Road Middle River, MD 21220 [email protected] cc: Jon Becker, Sports Editor, Oakland Tribune [email protected] ******************************* ******************************* Distributed by The Goldwater Club Chuck Muth, President P.O. Box 19893 Alexandria, VA 22320 E-mail: [email protected] # # #

November 4, 2002, 10:34 AM	#5
cor-man Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2002 Location: KY Posts: 137	letter sent Thanks folks for your comments, I've plajiarized the other letters to come up with one myself to send, here it is below. If anyone wants to see the pic I attached lemme know and I'll email it to you, but you may have seen it around Halloween time, it's a pic of a middleaged out of shape guy in a "spiderman" costume....only he's not actually wearing spandex (it's just body paint, pretty gross but somewhat funny pic, I surely can't post it here). ------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected] ------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected], [email protected] ------------------------------------------------------------ It has come to my attention that Warriors' management refused to allow an Honor Guard of police professionals - all military veterans - to present the colors at Friday's game because the contingent included - along with the American and California state flags -two unloaded rifles which might "scare" people. This is as shameful as it gets; as YOUR STATE continues to spew out pure trash filmography depicting unsafe, illegal, profane uses of firearms, and glorifying such behavior. Perhaps you think that the man in the picture attached would be more appropriate for a ceremony at one of your games. Your ridiculous fear of guns sickens me to no end. Cities in YOUR STATE have more gang violence than any other, yet not one of those gangbangers is abiding by gun laws; so where do gun laws help stop violence? Gun laws only disarm LAW-ABIDING citizens; turning virtually every citizen into a defenseless victim. GEE, that's the very reason your criminals know they can commit so much violence. None of YOUR state's violence percentage per-capita ever occurs in MY state of Kentucky because we are allowed an effective means of self-defense. As terrorists attack us on our soil, I'd like to see you on the front lines protesting the arming of our service men and women; so the world can see how ridiculous your anti-gun rhetoric is. When you are attacked, and call the police, I hope an unarmed janitor comes instead, because you obviously have an irrational fear of guns. The fact that these men; the VERY REASON you have freedom of speech and freedom of press, is something you reject because of your personal bias against the 2nd Amendment, is unconstitutional. You are lying to yourselves just like the fabled ostrich sticking its head in the sand. When you're bent down sticking your head in the sand guess what's sticking up into the air just waiting to get poked? (oh that's right, many of YOU would enjoy that). When men dressed in full uniform, with sidearms and rifles; presenting our colors walking by; some of us REAL AMERICANS have even been known to stand up and salute, knowing that persons like them who have the courage to take up arms are the very reason we live in a free society; without such people we would be in a soup line in Russia, or all speaking German. Patriotism is understanding that freedom always comes at a price, and acknowledging the men and women who continue to watch the fort as we sleep soundly at night. The Golden State Warriors apparently is a xxxx poor representation of "The Golden State". Second, it is a xxxx poor representation of "Warriors". You should be called the "The Fraidy-Cat State Wimps" as you are not fit to be representing any state in this union, and certainly I see no Warriors or bravehearts amongst you. You should immediately invite the Honor Guard back for the next Warriors home game and open up the activities with a personal apology delivered at center court by the hysterical "genius" who was responsible for this ridiculous decision. What an insult to our public safety professionals and military veterans. You should be ashamed. ------------------------------------------------------------ Last edited by Bud Helms; November 4, 2002 at 03:58 PM.

November 4, 2002, 01:09 PM	#7
MicroBalrog Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2002 Posts: 1,165	here's mine Good Day! I've just hear about how the Warriors' management didn't allow Honor Guard of police professionals to present the colors at Friday's game because the contingent included two unloaded rifles which might "scare" people. This is just as sick as sick can get. The rifles, were, I repeat, unloaded, and presented no danger. Do you indeed believe that could scare people? I live in Israel, where off-duty soldiers carry assault rifles in the streets, and that doesn't scare anyone. The true reason is, I suspect, your employees' irrational fear of firearms (which, as many psychologists have pointed out, stems from fear of responsibilty and suppressed immaturity) and bigoted attitude towards gun ownership. I believe you owe these people an apology. SY, Boris Karpa, Bat-Yam, Israel 972-3-5080974

November 4, 2002, 03:41 PM	#8
John Lawson Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 1999 Posts: 281	That is the land of peapickers, picnickers and plaquelickers. So, what's unusual? __________________ "Politicians are bilgewater in the ship of state."

November 3, 2002, 11:32 PM	#2
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	Already posted here in L&P this AM, Preacherman.

November 4, 2002, 03:56 AM	#3
Drjones Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2002 Posts: 1,239	Oh, the bleating is deafening!!! Baaaaaaaaahhhhhhh.... Yet another reason why I hate sports.

November 4, 2002, 08:59 AM	#4
geegee Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2000 Location: North Texas Posts: 323	What is it about California? This is the same place that when hosting the Democratic National Convention before the 2000 elections, booed the Eagle Scout Color Guard as they marched in the American Flag to open a session of their convention I suppose in all fairness, one couldn't say that all those booing were Californians, but really.... What a place. geegee

November 4, 2002, 12:17 PM	#6
ehenz Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 1999 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 308	cor-man, You were making a good point up until your anti-gay comments, then your whole letter turned to crap. We should try to keep our personal bias out of letters that are meant to address constitutional issues. Otherwise, we all sound like were from Kentucky, so to speak. Regards, ehenz

November 4, 2002, 04:03 PM	#9
MikeK Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2000 Location: MD Posts: 566	Even in Montgomery County Maryland, the High School ROTC gets to use rifles in their ceremonies. They are probably not functional, but 'll bet most of the audience doesn't know that.

November 4, 2002, 04:13 PM	#10
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	cor-man, Look at the bottom of your posting window and find the little blue PM bar. Click on it. Read your PMs. Talk to me via the REPLY button. - sensop

November 4, 2002, 04:41 PM	#11
Shalako Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2002 Location: Sacto, PRK Posts: 102	Umm, have you guys ever been to Oakland? Oakland, California? Its not exactly hometown, USA with apple pie, hot dog eating contests and a veterans day pararde with your Uncle Milton in it. I love that kind of stuff. Oakland is the poster child for the modern inner city, complete with crimes(homicides) of entertainment and a youth population mentored by angry felonious role models. Those folks you are mad at, the ones trying to rescue that cesspool, are trying to say if no one ever sees a gun maybe there will be less crime. I'm pretty sure most there see guns everyday in a less than an uplifting manner. It's just that the samaritans of Oakland are burned out on any and all use of guns. Plus, uniforms and guns wouldn't usually evoke joy from the bulk of Oakland's populace. Personally, I'd greatly appreciate seeing the honor guard and would emphatically support their servitude. Its about respect. I just don't think the inner city 'mindset' currently has the maturity to understand the responsible use of firearms. I always try to remember, "Pick your battles." Oakland is a battle ground I try to stay the hell away from. My $.02 -Shalako