Primers and Military Semiautos

Cheapo · November 12, 2002, 10:33 PM

Hey, is there any ranking of commercial primer "hardness" or "sensitivity", or some other common knowledge about what primers are too "soft" to use in U.S. military semiautos?

I've heard that CCIs regular primers are generally hardest to ignite, as far as firing pin strike goes. Rumor or fact? Then there's the special-order CCI primer.

In other words, which ones are safe for the slam-fire problem, and which ones should I avoid?

Kilroy in Indy · November 12, 2002, 10:48 PM

I have always used the CCI LR primers in my M1 and have not had a problem with them. When I run out of the batch that I have now I will be getting the CCI #34 as they are supposedly equal to military primers in hardness.

I don't know where you are at but I have a local source for the CCI #34 so they are not special order for me

HTH
Kilroy in Indy

cheygriz · November 13, 2002, 12:50 AM

To the best of my knowledge, the only commercial primers that meet Mil-Spec are Remington 9 1/2, standard large rifle, Remington 7 1/2 small rifle bench rest, and the special order CCI.

I know many folks use other primers successfully in military rifles, but I personally think that if a Mil-Spec primer is available, and is high quality, and the same price as the others, then why not use it?

I started using Remington primers exclusively over twenty years ago, and have not had a single problem. I've used several hundred thousand in that time.

Stocking only one brand also simplifies logistics.

Steve Smith · November 13, 2002, 01:20 AM

Agree on Rem 7 1/2. CCI BR4's also have a good rep.

benewton · November 13, 2002, 06:37 PM

I've no idea of the all of the primers that I've used in the M1A I have, but there have been no slam fires to date.

Still, during this round of "stock up", I've gone to the CCI mil types for both the AR and M1A.

I figure that the cost differential, per shot, is minimal, and, for the price, safety makes sense.

But I agree with primer standardization for logistics: WSP and WLP for pistols, CCI for rifles.

HSMITH · November 13, 2002, 08:05 PM

I have had slam fires in an SKS, AK, M1 Garand, and an FN-FAL with commercial ammo and/or primers. It is just a matter of time until you have one too if using commercial ammo or regular primers. I use only military type primers from CCI when I load for a semi.

Poodleshooter · November 14, 2002, 01:52 PM

In several thousand rounds of .223 and a few hundred rounds of 7.62x39, I have never had a slamfire using CCI small and large rifle primers in my AR or AK.
Generally, Federal's are acknowledged to have the thinnest or weakest cups. They ignite easily (good for pistols, bad for military rifles). I use Winchester for everything except rifles, in which I use CCI. Admittedly this policy is due to price....

Poodleshooter · November 14, 2002, 02:03 PM

In several thousand rounds of .223 and a few hundred rounds of 7.62x39, I have never had a slamfire using CCI small and large rifle primers in my AR or AK.
Generally, Federal's are acknowledged to have the thinnest or weakest cups. They ignite easily (good for pistols, bad for military rifles). I use Winchester for everything except rifles, in which I use CCI. Admittedly this policy is due to price....

cheygriz · November 15, 2002, 12:11 PM

I've never used the CCI MiulSpec primers. Are they more expensive??

The Remington standard primers are MilSpec. Why pay more?

John Lawson · November 15, 2002, 01:48 PM

Had a long talk with an application engineer at CCI and was told that their primers are not "softer or harder" than any other primer on the market. They differ by having a lower anvil than some others. The implication is obvious.

alan · November 17, 2002, 06:53 PM

When I shot rifle competition with an M-1, at first I used RWS primers, they were what was available at that time and place. Later on, I used Winchester 81/2-120, their standard large rifle primer. Never had a slam fire with either primer.

Re handguns, CCI primers didn't work well in a Model 15 Smith I have, Winchester small pistol primers worked without problem. The CCI's were fine in pistols, heavier hamer hit. Supposedly, the CCI primers were a bit to hard for use in revolvers, or so the story went.

Sidebar thought. Using a Dillon 550, with Remington and or Federal Primers, I had problems with primers bring presented "on edge", rather than lying flat. They would get crushed, as you might imagine. Never had much of a problem with either Winchester of CCI primers. So far as I could tell, the problem was caused by the following. It appeared that the legs of the anvil, in Federal and Remington primers projected above the top of the primer cup. Winchester and CCI's didn't.

Peter M. Eick · November 19, 2002, 08:13 PM

I use the c-34's in my M1a's and have no problems. The only issue is that they are magnum equiv. You need to back down the powder charge a bit. I am down 1 grn from max load using imr-4895 with seirra's. I am not at my load desk, so I did not look up the charge. I think it was 39.5 grns, but that is a guess.

November 12, 2002, 10:33 PM	#1
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Primers and Military Semiautos Hey, is there any ranking of commercial primer "hardness" or "sensitivity", or some other common knowledge about what primers are too "soft" to use in U.S. military semiautos? I've heard that CCIs regular primers are generally hardest to ignite, as far as firing pin strike goes. Rumor or fact? Then there's the special-order CCI primer. In other words, which ones are safe for the slam-fire problem, and which ones should I avoid? __________________ Let us never forget that the only legitimate source of government power is the citizens. If WE cannot exercise a certain power, we cannot grant it to the state.

November 13, 2002, 01:20 AM	#4
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	Agree on Rem 7 1/2. CCI BR4's also have a good rep. __________________ Favor the X. Steve Smith NRA Life Member

November 15, 2002, 12:11 PM	#9
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	I've never used the CCI MiulSpec primers. Are they more expensive?? The Remington standard primers are MilSpec. Why pay more? __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

November 15, 2002, 01:48 PM	#10
John Lawson Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 1999 Posts: 281	Had a long talk with an application engineer at CCI and was told that their primers are not "softer or harder" than any other primer on the market. They differ by having a lower anvil than some others. The implication is obvious. __________________ "Politicians are bilgewater in the ship of state."

November 19, 2002, 08:13 PM	#12
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	I use the c-34's in my M1a's and have no problems. The only issue is that they are magnum equiv. You need to back down the powder charge a bit. I am down 1 grn from max load using imr-4895 with seirra's. I am not at my load desk, so I did not look up the charge. I think it was 39.5 grns, but that is a guess. __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

November 12, 2002, 10:48 PM	#2
Kilroy in Indy Junior Member Join Date: September 27, 2002 Posts: 2	I have always used the CCI LR primers in my M1 and have not had a problem with them. When I run out of the batch that I have now I will be getting the CCI #34 as they are supposedly equal to military primers in hardness. I don't know where you are at but I have a local source for the CCI #34 so they are not special order for me HTH Kilroy in Indy

November 13, 2002, 12:50 AM	#3
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	To the best of my knowledge, the only commercial primers that meet Mil-Spec are Remington 9 1/2, standard large rifle, Remington 7 1/2 small rifle bench rest, and the special order CCI. I know many folks use other primers successfully in military rifles, but I personally think that if a Mil-Spec primer is available, and is high quality, and the same price as the others, then why not use it? I started using Remington primers exclusively over twenty years ago, and have not had a single problem. I've used several hundred thousand in that time. Stocking only one brand also simplifies logistics. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

November 13, 2002, 06:37 PM	#5
benewton Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Location: NH Posts: 253	I've no idea of the all of the primers that I've used in the M1A I have, but there have been no slam fires to date. Still, during this round of "stock up", I've gone to the CCI mil types for both the AR and M1A. I figure that the cost differential, per shot, is minimal, and, for the price, safety makes sense. But I agree with primer standardization for logistics: WSP and WLP for pistols, CCI for rifles.

November 13, 2002, 08:05 PM	#6
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	I have had slam fires in an SKS, AK, M1 Garand, and an FN-FAL with commercial ammo and/or primers. It is just a matter of time until you have one too if using commercial ammo or regular primers. I use only military type primers from CCI when I load for a semi.

November 14, 2002, 01:52 PM	#7
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	In several thousand rounds of .223 and a few hundred rounds of 7.62x39, I have never had a slamfire using CCI small and large rifle primers in my AR or AK. Generally, Federal's are acknowledged to have the thinnest or weakest cups. They ignite easily (good for pistols, bad for military rifles). I use Winchester for everything except rifles, in which I use CCI. Admittedly this policy is due to price....

November 14, 2002, 02:03 PM	#8
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	In several thousand rounds of .223 and a few hundred rounds of 7.62x39, I have never had a slamfire using CCI small and large rifle primers in my AR or AK. Generally, Federal's are acknowledged to have the thinnest or weakest cups. They ignite easily (good for pistols, bad for military rifles). I use Winchester for everything except rifles, in which I use CCI. Admittedly this policy is due to price....

November 17, 2002, 06:53 PM	#11
alan Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Posts: 3,847	When I shot rifle competition with an M-1, at first I used RWS primers, they were what was available at that time and place. Later on, I used Winchester 81/2-120, their standard large rifle primer. Never had a slam fire with either primer. Re handguns, CCI primers didn't work well in a Model 15 Smith I have, Winchester small pistol primers worked without problem. The CCI's were fine in pistols, heavier hamer hit. Supposedly, the CCI primers were a bit to hard for use in revolvers, or so the story went. Sidebar thought. Using a Dillon 550, with Remington and or Federal Primers, I had problems with primers bring presented "on edge", rather than lying flat. They would get crushed, as you might imagine. Never had much of a problem with either Winchester of CCI primers. So far as I could tell, the problem was caused by the following. It appeared that the legs of the anvil, in Federal and Remington primers projected above the top of the primer cup. Winchester and CCI's didn't.

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