Full length or neck only?

4T4MAG · March 7, 2012, 10:06 PM

Is it possible to only neck size with a full length die? If the brass is going to be fired in the same rifle every time, should I only neck size and not full length? This is for a 22-250 Rem.

Jimmie.. · March 7, 2012, 10:31 PM

What you are looking for is whats called partial sizing. Its actually better then neck sizing cause every round is always the same, no neck size this time and then 5 firings later full size.

Back your die out of the press at least 1/8 clearence between the shell holder and the die base. Now raise the ram with brass, and try to chamber it. If it chambers well then your done, if not screw the die in another quater or half turn and repeat process until it chambers in your gun with no problem.

AllenJ · March 8, 2012, 12:36 AM

You can neck size with a FL die. Adjust your die so that it is about 1/4 turn above the shell holder. Put a small amount of lube on the mouth of the case neck (don't forget to lube the inside as you would normally) and put it through the die. Now look for the line of lube on the neck and slowly adjust your die down until that lube ring is just above the shoulder. If you decide to only neck size on a regular basis you may want to invest in a Lee Collet Neck Sizer Die.

Here is another thread that may help you:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...w+to+neck+size

HiBC · March 8, 2012, 06:27 AM

I will confuse you by disagreeing.
To truly neck size without sizing the case body dia down,you need a neck sizing die.

Question:How far are you short sizing it? .010? .020? .030?.I don't know.

If you look at the cartridge drawing in your load manual,you will see the case body tapers about .060 over about 1.5,or about .040 an in.

So,if you back off .010,you will change the amount the case body is sized down by .0004,or less than 1/2 of one thousandth.

It will still get sized down.If it was getting sized .004,it will get sized .0036.

OK,now imagine you have a piece of banana cut to match the width of your hand.Wrap your hand around it and "size down" the banana.Notice the banana extrudes out the top of your hand.If you size down the diameter of a case,the shoulder moves forward just like the banana.A little shoulder bump is likely necessary to restore the shoulder .

A neck sizing die does not size down the case body,so it does not move the shoulder forward.

Note,a 22-250 has a lot of body taper.A .243 only has .019 over 1.560.or something near .012 or .013 taper per in..Backing the die up .010 would only change the amount the case is sized by about .00013,or a touch over one tenth of one thousandth of an inch.

(I am saying "about" because I am doing the numbers in my head)

4runnerman · March 8, 2012, 06:54 AM

What HiBC said. Yes you can,but not really. Buy the die. If you do some big time reading on it,it's about a 50/50 split as to if it is more accurate than full length sizing anyhow. It will extend your brass life for sure.

homesick · March 8, 2012, 07:49 AM

I am with 4runner on buying the die, but heres something to consider. In time your gona have to full length size them, from my experience 2 or 3 neck sizings and the loads become hard to chamber. Also if this is for accuracy and not case life most benchrest shooters full lenght size.
In my experience neck sizing did very little to extent case life, I seemed to have a lot of split necks when I did this. If you set your dies right for your rifle I dought you see much difference in case life.
I also found when neck sizing, then having to full lenght size my POI would change never much but enough to have to make scope adjustments.
If you set your FL die for your chamber case life should not be an issue.
What I mean by set your dies to fit your chamber. Most recently I bought my son a 7mm-08 (Ruger Hawkeye) we set every thing up and it shoots awsome, so I bought one (Rem model 7) his loads would not chamber in my model 7. ( well they would but you had to jump on the bolt) Thats what I mean by setting your dies to your rifle.
I have experienced this over the years, trying to custom handload for two rifles with one set of dies has not been very successful for me.

F. Guffey · March 8, 2012, 03:00 PM

4T4Mag, Yes you can, not only that, with a RCBS shell holder (#3 30/06 type for example and mileage may vary) the full length sizer die can form/sizes for short chambers that are .012 thousands shorter than minimum length/.017 thousands shorter than a go-gage length chamber all the way up, in thousands, to a practice .014 thousands over a minimum length size case/ .009 thousands longer than a go-gage length chamber. All of my full length sizer dies are versatile full length sizer dies. I have neck sizer dies, I have small base dies, I have case forming dies. my favorite die is the versatile full length sizer die and then, next, comes the trim/form die.

Again, the one thing I can not do is restore a case that has been fired 5 times back to minimum length to start over, every time, those cases have been 5 times.

It is much easier to determine the length of the chamber first, then size. Problem, convincing someone it is possible is almost impossible. I do not use fractional turns of the die, I do not wild guesses as in degree of turns converted to thousands, it has never been necessary for those that verify adjustments, as in 1/4 turn = .017 thousands, if the gap is verified the time to make the adjustment was wasted, I go straight to verify.

Then securing the lock ring to the die complicates adjusting the die, Dillon and Lee lock rings come without set screws, Dillon and Pacific dies came with a integral hex nut on the top of the die, the ideal is to hold the die adjustment with one wrench and secure/tighten the lock nut with the other.

Then there is determining if the press sized the case before lowering the ram, again, there are times the press wins and then there are times the 5 time fired cases whip the press.

F. Guffey

603Country · March 8, 2012, 10:46 PM

Partial resizing works just fine, and I've been doing it for many years for my 270 and 220. But it works best on cases with some body taper, like the two cartridges mentioned above. I've found that it doesn't work as well with my 223 and 260, so I've gone to neck sizing dies for them. As for a 22-250 case, I don't load for that one, so can't comment on which type resizing is best, though you really can't go wrong with a good neck sizing die.

And somebody may have mentioned that partial resizing only will work 3 or so times before you have to full length resize. In my experience, and with the cartridges I partial resize, that isn't correct. Heaven only knows how many times I partially resized my Norma 220 cases. I don't load them super hot, so that probably gets me more case life.

March 7, 2012, 10:06 PM	#1
4T4MAG Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2009 Posts: 162	Full length or neck only? Is it possible to only neck size with a full length die? If the brass is going to be fired in the same rifle every time, should I only neck size and not full length? This is for a 22-250 Rem.

March 8, 2012, 06:27 AM	#4
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I will confuse you by disagreeing. To truly neck size without sizing the case body dia down,you need a neck sizing die. Question:How far are you short sizing it? .010? .020? .030?.I don't know. If you look at the cartridge drawing in your load manual,you will see the case body tapers about .060 over about 1.5,or about .040 an in. So,if you back off .010,you will change the amount the case body is sized down by .0004,or less than 1/2 of one thousandth. It will still get sized down.If it was getting sized .004,it will get sized .0036. OK,now imagine you have a piece of banana cut to match the width of your hand.Wrap your hand around it and "size down" the banana.Notice the banana extrudes out the top of your hand.If you size down the diameter of a case,the shoulder moves forward just like the banana.A little shoulder bump is likely necessary to restore the shoulder . A neck sizing die does not size down the case body,so it does not move the shoulder forward. Note,a 22-250 has a lot of body taper.A .243 only has .019 over 1.560.or something near .012 or .013 taper per in..Backing the die up .010 would only change the amount the case is sized by about .00013,or a touch over one tenth of one thousandth of an inch. (I am saying "about" because I am doing the numbers in my head) Last edited by HiBC; March 8, 2012 at 06:38 AM.

March 8, 2012, 06:54 AM	#5
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	What HiBC said. Yes you can,but not really. Buy the die. If you do some big time reading on it,it's about a 50/50 split as to if it is more accurate than full length sizing anyhow. It will extend your brass life for sure. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

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March 7, 2012, 10:31 PM	#2
Jimmie.. Junior Member Join Date: March 6, 2012 Posts: 3	What you are looking for is whats called partial sizing. Its actually better then neck sizing cause every round is always the same, no neck size this time and then 5 firings later full size. Back your die out of the press at least 1/8 clearence between the shell holder and the die base. Now raise the ram with brass, and try to chamber it. If it chambers well then your done, if not screw the die in another quater or half turn and repeat process until it chambers in your gun with no problem.

March 8, 2012, 12:36 AM	#3
AllenJ Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,766	You can neck size with a FL die. Adjust your die so that it is about 1/4 turn above the shell holder. Put a small amount of lube on the mouth of the case neck (don't forget to lube the inside as you would normally) and put it through the die. Now look for the line of lube on the neck and slowly adjust your die down until that lube ring is just above the shoulder. If you decide to only neck size on a regular basis you may want to invest in a Lee Collet Neck Sizer Die. Here is another thread that may help you: http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...w+to+neck+size

March 8, 2012, 07:49 AM	#6
homesick Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: Central Florida Posts: 378	I am with 4runner on buying the die, but heres something to consider. In time your gona have to full length size them, from my experience 2 or 3 neck sizings and the loads become hard to chamber. Also if this is for accuracy and not case life most benchrest shooters full lenght size. In my experience neck sizing did very little to extent case life, I seemed to have a lot of split necks when I did this. If you set your dies right for your rifle I dought you see much difference in case life. I also found when neck sizing, then having to full lenght size my POI would change never much but enough to have to make scope adjustments. If you set your FL die for your chamber case life should not be an issue. What I mean by set your dies to fit your chamber. Most recently I bought my son a 7mm-08 (Ruger Hawkeye) we set every thing up and it shoots awsome, so I bought one (Rem model 7) his loads would not chamber in my model 7. ( well they would but you had to jump on the bolt) Thats what I mean by setting your dies to your rifle. I have experienced this over the years, trying to custom handload for two rifles with one set of dies has not been very successful for me.

March 8, 2012, 03:00 PM	#7
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	4T4Mag, Yes you can, not only that, with a RCBS shell holder (#3 30/06 type for example and mileage may vary) the full length sizer die can form/sizes for short chambers that are .012 thousands shorter than minimum length/.017 thousands shorter than a go-gage length chamber all the way up, in thousands, to a practice .014 thousands over a minimum length size case/ .009 thousands longer than a go-gage length chamber. All of my full length sizer dies are versatile full length sizer dies. I have neck sizer dies, I have small base dies, I have case forming dies. my favorite die is the versatile full length sizer die and then, next, comes the trim/form die. Again, the one thing I can not do is restore a case that has been fired 5 times back to minimum length to start over, every time, those cases have been 5 times. It is much easier to determine the length of the chamber first, then size. Problem, convincing someone it is possible is almost impossible. I do not use fractional turns of the die, I do not wild guesses as in degree of turns converted to thousands, it has never been necessary for those that verify adjustments, as in 1/4 turn = .017 thousands, if the gap is verified the time to make the adjustment was wasted, I go straight to verify. Then securing the lock ring to the die complicates adjusting the die, Dillon and Lee lock rings come without set screws, Dillon and Pacific dies came with a integral hex nut on the top of the die, the ideal is to hold the die adjustment with one wrench and secure/tighten the lock nut with the other. Then there is determining if the press sized the case before lowering the ram, again, there are times the press wins and then there are times the 5 time fired cases whip the press. F. Guffey

March 8, 2012, 10:46 PM	#8
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,996	Partial resizing works just fine, and I've been doing it for many years for my 270 and 220. But it works best on cases with some body taper, like the two cartridges mentioned above. I've found that it doesn't work as well with my 223 and 260, so I've gone to neck sizing dies for them. As for a 22-250 case, I don't load for that one, so can't comment on which type resizing is best, though you really can't go wrong with a good neck sizing die. And somebody may have mentioned that partial resizing only will work 3 or so times before you have to full length resize. In my experience, and with the cartridges I partial resize, that isn't correct. Heaven only knows how many times I partially resized my Norma 220 cases. I don't load them super hot, so that probably gets me more case life.