"Camping" CCW - Page 2

WeedWacker · May 25, 2007, 01:41 AM

My vote is for the .357 mag. Good penetration and the shockwave will kill the smaller stuff

longtooth50 · May 25, 2007, 02:51 AM

.357. This gives the option to load it up for any heavy fur animal, heavy winter coats on two legged critters, hogs, black bear, ...
Then load it down to plink & it is affordable to shoot.

Duxman · May 25, 2007, 09:04 AM

Thanks for the insights guys.

Looks like I will be going 40SW until I get enough trigger time on my 357 mag. That seems like the best compromise.

slow944 · May 25, 2007, 10:50 AM

Hard to beat a S&W 357mag, it's what I carry during Deer season here in Texas. The 357 makes enough noise when fired that it will scare the beejeebies out of anything or anyone. Get a hunting round and practice with it before you go as to know POI with the round. I have a .40 S&W also but I prefer the 357.

ohioleadslinger · May 25, 2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

The 357 makes enough noise when fired that it will scare the beejeebies out of anything or anyone. Get a hunting round and practice with it

Them Brownies have been know to be dinner bell bears. Shots actually attract them because they know there may be a gut pile where the sound came from. But I doubt you would be shooting in the air for the heck of it and no brownies in VA. The odds are you would have more trouble out of two legged varmints, so enjoy your trip!

Godbless.....

Mannlicher · May 25, 2007, 04:33 PM

Where you camp can have an influence on what you carry, or if you carry at all.
In Florida, this past fall, a new law went into effect that allows CCW permit holders to carry a firearm, not necessarily just a hand gun, in State Parks, and National Forests.
National Parks are still closed to CCW, and firearms in general.

About all I ever carry on me is a .22 S&W Model 63 revolver. I have never needed it, but I usually have it with me. Close at hand, will be something more effective if a bad social situation occurs.

FirstFreedom · May 25, 2007, 05:07 PM

I think the prime consideration for a camping gun is weather-resistant - it can get a little wet and humid in tents where the gun is kept. Stainless steel or good resistant coating.

Beyond that, you'd probably want a fullsized gun in a decent caliber with a really good safety - strange uncontrolled environment; small hands might find the gun unwittingly.

allenomics · May 27, 2007, 08:46 PM

With today's ammo, I'd feel safe with a 9mm, like a Glock 17 and a couple of extra magazines. That's over 50 rounds of power!

MacGille · May 27, 2007, 08:54 PM

Why the hell would you conceal your gun? If you need it its better to have in at your side or in a shoulder holster. In Alaska I always carried a S&w 29 6 1/2" loaded with 240 gr. Jacketed bullets at 1400 fps. Then I got smart (relatively) and started carrying a Marlin 1895SS in 45-70. Just as easy to sling it, as carry a huge pistol in a shoulder holster and a LOT mor effective on Griz.

JAXX · May 27, 2007, 09:13 PM

Gotta agree with MacGille, if you're out in the woods, don't even try to conceal your weapon. Keep it within easy reach. If I'm out in the woods, my gun is in plain view all the time. I expect to see the same on other people that I may encounter. That being said, I think alot of people neglect another weapon/tool that is worth it's wait in gold out in the woods. A good dog. A good dog will discourage 99% of encounters out in the woods, and it'll lay down it's life for you and buy you valuable time in that chance meeting of the other 1%. They truly are "Man's best friend".

Duxman · May 27, 2007, 09:14 PM

Mac,

Open carry is illegal in VA state parks.

CC is OK. (With license)

If I could open carry I'd pack a rifle - in a battle sling. But such is not allowed by the current rules.

Hardtarget · May 27, 2007, 10:37 PM

I voted .357 simply because I like revolvers for the "outdoors" setting. Traditionalist in that respect. Maybe there were too many cowboy movies in my younger years.

Mark.

hexidismal · May 27, 2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

If I could open carry I'd pack a rifle - in a battle sling. But such is not allowed by the current rules.

As I said in post #3 my vote is still on the .357. If I were really conscerned though I might look into one of those Kel-Tec folding rifles in .223, the SU-16 series. The smallest of them is the SU-16D. Its only 20 inches folded closed, small enough to fit in a normal backpack. Not the quickest thing to access though.
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/su16d.html

Dave R · May 27, 2007, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Since most of the dangers in the woods - are primarily of the 4 legged variety

I disagree. The 2-legged predators are more dangerous, even in the woods. There have been high-profile murders in Yosemite, Arizona and others.

Not that that would change your choice...

FWIW, my choice is .45acp.

T. O'Heir · May 27, 2007, 11:22 PM

If she's afraid of Yogi, Wiley and Oilcan Harry, leave her at home. None of them are interested in you. You smell of nothing but trouble to all of them. They will avoid you like the plague.
Wild Dogs very likely aren't wild. In some places, people let Fido out to run. Legal or not. Dogs that are running in packs get shot by locals for chasing deer.

Slideman · May 27, 2007, 11:35 PM

.357Mag. Remington 125gr.SJHP 583 foot-pounds
.357Mag. Remington Med.Vel. 125g 413 foot-pounds
.40S&W Federal Hydra-Shok 180gr.JHP 361 foot-pounds
.40S&W Rem.Golden Saber 165gr.JHP 485 foot-pounds

The power difference between .357 mag and .40 is not THAT much. Shot placement is going to be far more important. The .40 is going to have more rounds available with or without reloads.

Personally I'm hankering for both a 10mm and a .44mag. Hiking in the woods is my excuse, but I know it is lame. The 13 rounds of .357 auto I carry constantly in my Glock is more than enough here in wolf country.

roscoe · May 28, 2007, 02:05 AM

Quote:

The power difference between .357 mag and .40 is not THAT much.

Only if you limit your ammo choices. Buffalo Bore and Doubletap have .357 ammo that will get you around 700 foot-pounds from a 4" revolver. That borders on .44 mag territory, and far exceeds anything in .40. Also, those heavy .357 rounds are available in hardcast and will penetrate like crazy. Now, if you step up to 10mm, that is another story entirely . . .

WeedWacker · May 28, 2007, 02:14 AM

Do they make handguns in 10mm?

MaineMan · May 28, 2007, 06:52 AM

You'll do fine and be well protected from Yogi and his cousins with a .357 magnum. It's really not necessary to carry a huge handgun it's more important to be able to use the one you have well enough and to know where inside that bag of fur, bones, claws and teeth you need to put that bullet to stop any thoughts of mayhem on your person or the SO, I'm sure she will be appreciative and the rewards can be great.
Unless you are going after those rare heavily armored Las Vegas Bears that require barrages of the latest 500 testosterone inducing magnums, a well constructed .357 will do the job plenty. Avoid the hollow points, they may or may not expand and if they expand too quickly they may just blow a crater in the outdside of Mr. Bruin and really get him ticked at you. A well constructed soft point or hard cast bullet is better.
Wardens up here are armed with SIG handguns firing the .357 SIG round. They have to put down injured animals, like bears and moose, and found that the .357 SIG did it better than the .40's they initially had.
Like one other poster said, if the bear is tearing your campsite garbage pile apart, let him have it and retreat to a safe place. No sense asking for trouble. If the bear runs, it may not specifically be an attack. They will run in the direction their nose is pointing when they sense danger. If your in the way, don't take it personal. Keep this mantra in your head "Bullet placement- bullet placement - bullet placement." Be familiar with what you choose and practice until you are sure you can put that bullet right where you need it to go.

BikerRN · May 28, 2007, 09:38 AM

Since you are going to be out in a "rural" or "wilderness" setting I would recommend the 40 S&W.

The reason I chose the 40 was because your odds of encounters with two legged predators is still your most likely occurance. You will be without cell phone coverage, immediate police response, no 911 and may have to "fight your way to safety".

I personally prefer Revolvers, but in this scenario I would go with the "autoloader" and at least one spare magazine. For what you described I would use my Glock 9mm loaded with 115 Grain +P+ JHP's. The reason I chose the 9mm is because I don't have a 40.

Biker

drinks · May 28, 2007, 09:17 PM

A friend lives in Alaska, he killed a coastal brown with a .44 mag. 180gr hp, but does not recommend it, preferring a .45-70 or up.
He knew an indian woman who killed a polar bear with a .22rf rifle, but she had to shoot it in the roof of the mouth.
I have no desire to be close enough to any bear, black, brown, grizzly or polar, to shoot it in the roof of the mouth.

I would feel a .357 in black country and a .44 mag. where the other bears live would be the minimum.
For Felis concolor, .38 sp or more should be plenty, the animal is mostly 125lb or smaller.

DougO83 · June 2, 2007, 09:28 AM

You have to be really careful about this. I haven't gotten to read all of the posts due to the speed of my office computer, I just don't have that kind of time. Anyway, some parks, especially state parks, are very touchy about your possession of a firearm on their property. This is most definitely the case in Texas where it is pretty heavily fined, if not an arrestable offense. Also, I was told by one of the park rangers down here that it is pretty hard to prove that your life was threatened by an animal to the point that you needed to usedeadly force. Things may have changed, I haven't looked into it lately. Just my two or three cents.

JoshB · June 2, 2007, 09:34 AM

I'd take a 44mag.
If you don't have a 44 [like me], go with a 45ACP. I've seen bears in the VA woods and I wouldn't want anything less than a 44mag or [at very least] a 45ACP.

obxned · June 2, 2007, 10:37 AM

What kind of camping? Camping in a National Forest campground that can be reached by car has different dangers than a camp site 3 days by horse from the trailhead.

Zombie Steve · June 3, 2007, 03:28 PM

.357 mag with full house loads works fine in Colorado. It seems to hit that sweet spot of power and shootability for me. I still worry about 2 legged critters more than 4 legged in the mountains.

View Poll Results: What is the optimum CCW for camping?
9mm is good enough	14	10.45%
40SW is a better choice	9	6.72%
38 special is perfect	6	4.48%
357 magnum is better	75	55.97%
22 LR is more than enough	5	3.73%
Other....	25	18.66%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

May 25, 2007, 01:41 AM	#26
WeedWacker Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Location: Body: Clarkston, Washington. Soul: LaCrosse, Wisconsin Posts: 1,591	My vote is for the .357 mag. Good penetration and the shockwave will kill the smaller stuff __________________ - Jon Disequilibrium facilitates accommodation. 9mm vs .45 ACP? The answer is .429

May 25, 2007, 02:51 AM	#27
longtooth50 Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Lufkin, Texas Posts: 95	.357. This gives the option to load it up for any heavy fur animal, heavy winter coats on two legged critters, hogs, black bear, ... Then load it down to plink & it is affordable to shoot. __________________ Carry 24-7 or guess right. NRA/TSRA Life Member Texas CHL Instructor - Angelina County.

May 25, 2007, 10:50 AM	#29
slow944 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: DFW,TX Posts: 406	Hard to beat a S&W 357mag, it's what I carry during Deer season here in Texas. The 357 makes enough noise when fired that it will scare the beejeebies out of anything or anyone. Get a hunting round and practice with it before you go as to know POI with the round. I have a .40 S&W also but I prefer the 357. __________________ I Have A 45 And A Shovel. Don't Mess With Texas! DFW,TX.

May 25, 2007, 04:33 PM	#31
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,209	Where you camp can have an influence on what you carry, or if you carry at all. In Florida, this past fall, a new law went into effect that allows CCW permit holders to carry a firearm, not necessarily just a hand gun, in State Parks, and National Forests. National Parks are still closed to CCW, and firearms in general. About all I ever carry on me is a .22 S&W Model 63 revolver. I have never needed it, but I usually have it with me. Close at hand, will be something more effective if a bad social situation occurs. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

May 25, 2007, 09:04 AM	#28
Duxman Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2005 Location: VA Posts: 1,294	Thanks for the insights guys. Looks like I will be going 40SW until I get enough trigger time on my 357 mag. That seems like the best compromise.

May 25, 2007, 05:07 PM	#32
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	I think the prime consideration for a camping gun is weather-resistant - it can get a little wet and humid in tents where the gun is kept. Stainless steel or good resistant coating. Beyond that, you'd probably want a fullsized gun in a decent caliber with a really good safety - strange uncontrolled environment; small hands might find the gun unwittingly.

May 27, 2007, 08:46 PM	#33
allenomics Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2007 Posts: 1,536	With today's ammo, I'd feel safe with a 9mm, like a Glock 17 and a couple of extra magazines. That's over 50 rounds of power! __________________ NRA Benefactor Life Member Knowledge is not power. Applied knowledge is power!

May 27, 2007, 08:54 PM	#34
MacGille Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2006 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 976	Why the hell would you conceal your gun? If you need it its better to have in at your side or in a shoulder holster. In Alaska I always carried a S&w 29 6 1/2" loaded with 240 gr. Jacketed bullets at 1400 fps. Then I got smart (relatively) and started carrying a Marlin 1895SS in 45-70. Just as easy to sling it, as carry a huge pistol in a shoulder holster and a LOT mor effective on Griz. __________________ If ye love wealth better than Liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animated contest of Freedom, go from us in Peace. We ask not your counsel or Arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. --Samuel Adams--<*ixoye><

May 27, 2007, 09:13 PM	#35
JAXX Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2007 Location: Northwest Wyoming Posts: 371	Gotta agree with MacGille, if you're out in the woods, don't even try to conceal your weapon. Keep it within easy reach. If I'm out in the woods, my gun is in plain view all the time. I expect to see the same on other people that I may encounter. That being said, I think alot of people neglect another weapon/tool that is worth it's wait in gold out in the woods. A good dog. A good dog will discourage 99% of encounters out in the woods, and it'll lay down it's life for you and buy you valuable time in that chance meeting of the other 1%. They truly are "Man's best friend". __________________ Lifetime member of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy

May 27, 2007, 09:14 PM	#36
Duxman Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2005 Location: VA Posts: 1,294	Mac, Open carry is illegal in VA state parks. CC is OK. (With license) If I could open carry I'd pack a rifle - in a battle sling. But such is not allowed by the current rules.

May 27, 2007, 10:37 PM	#37
Hardtarget Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2001 Location: Nashville, Tn. Posts: 683	I voted .357 simply because I like revolvers for the "outdoors" setting. Traditionalist in that respect. Maybe there were too many cowboy movies in my younger years. Mark. __________________ ...even a blind hog finds an acorn every once in a while.

May 27, 2007, 11:22 PM	#40
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	If she's afraid of Yogi, Wiley and Oilcan Harry, leave her at home. None of them are interested in you. You smell of nothing but trouble to all of them. They will avoid you like the plague. Wild Dogs very likely aren't wild. In some places, people let Fido out to run. Legal or not. Dogs that are running in packs get shot by locals for chasing deer.

May 27, 2007, 11:35 PM	#41
Slideman Member Join Date: December 20, 2006 Location: Idaho Posts: 78	.357Mag. Remington 125gr.SJHP 583 foot-pounds .357Mag. Remington Med.Vel. 125g 413 foot-pounds .40S&W Federal Hydra-Shok 180gr.JHP 361 foot-pounds .40S&W Rem.Golden Saber 165gr.JHP 485 foot-pounds The power difference between .357 mag and .40 is not THAT much. Shot placement is going to be far more important. The .40 is going to have more rounds available with or without reloads. Personally I'm hankering for both a 10mm and a .44mag. Hiking in the woods is my excuse, but I know it is lame. The 13 rounds of .357 auto I carry constantly in my Glock is more than enough here in wolf country.

May 28, 2007, 02:14 AM	#43
WeedWacker Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Location: Body: Clarkston, Washington. Soul: LaCrosse, Wisconsin Posts: 1,591	Do they make handguns in 10mm? __________________ - Jon Disequilibrium facilitates accommodation. 9mm vs .45 ACP? The answer is .429

May 28, 2007, 06:52 AM	#44
MaineMan Member Join Date: May 9, 2007 Posts: 17	You'll do fine and be well protected from Yogi and his cousins with a .357 magnum. It's really not necessary to carry a huge handgun it's more important to be able to use the one you have well enough and to know where inside that bag of fur, bones, claws and teeth you need to put that bullet to stop any thoughts of mayhem on your person or the SO, I'm sure she will be appreciative and the rewards can be great. Unless you are going after those rare heavily armored Las Vegas Bears that require barrages of the latest 500 testosterone inducing magnums, a well constructed .357 will do the job plenty. Avoid the hollow points, they may or may not expand and if they expand too quickly they may just blow a crater in the outdside of Mr. Bruin and really get him ticked at you. A well constructed soft point or hard cast bullet is better. Wardens up here are armed with SIG handguns firing the .357 SIG round. They have to put down injured animals, like bears and moose, and found that the .357 SIG did it better than the .40's they initially had. Like one other poster said, if the bear is tearing your campsite garbage pile apart, let him have it and retreat to a safe place. No sense asking for trouble. If the bear runs, it may not specifically be an attack. They will run in the direction their nose is pointing when they sense danger. If your in the way, don't take it personal. Keep this mantra in your head "Bullet placement- bullet placement - bullet placement." Be familiar with what you choose and practice until you are sure you can put that bullet right where you need it to go.

May 28, 2007, 09:38 AM	#45
BikerRN Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2007 Location: "State of Discombobulation" Posts: 1,333	Since you are going to be out in a "rural" or "wilderness" setting I would recommend the 40 S&W. The reason I chose the 40 was because your odds of encounters with two legged predators is still your most likely occurance. You will be without cell phone coverage, immediate police response, no 911 and may have to "fight your way to safety". I personally prefer Revolvers, but in this scenario I would go with the "autoloader" and at least one spare magazine. For what you described I would use my Glock 9mm loaded with 115 Grain +P+ JHP's. The reason I chose the 9mm is because I don't have a 40. Biker

May 28, 2007, 09:17 PM	#46
drinks Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Posts: 405	A friend lives in Alaska, he killed a coastal brown with a .44 mag. 180gr hp, but does not recommend it, preferring a .45-70 or up. He knew an indian woman who killed a polar bear with a .22rf rifle, but she had to shoot it in the roof of the mouth. I have no desire to be close enough to any bear, black, brown, grizzly or polar, to shoot it in the roof of the mouth. I would feel a .357 in black country and a .44 mag. where the other bears live would be the minimum. For Felis concolor, .38 sp or more should be plenty, the animal is mostly 125lb or smaller.

June 2, 2007, 09:28 AM	#47
DougO83 Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 389	Camping Carry You have to be really careful about this. I haven't gotten to read all of the posts due to the speed of my office computer, I just don't have that kind of time. Anyway, some parks, especially state parks, are very touchy about your possession of a firearm on their property. This is most definitely the case in Texas where it is pretty heavily fined, if not an arrestable offense. Also, I was told by one of the park rangers down here that it is pretty hard to prove that your life was threatened by an animal to the point that you needed to usedeadly force. Things may have changed, I haven't looked into it lately. Just my two or three cents.

June 2, 2007, 09:34 AM	#48
JoshB Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2006 Posts: 333	I'd take a 44mag. If you don't have a 44 [like me], go with a 45ACP. I've seen bears in the VA woods and I wouldn't want anything less than a 44mag or [at very least] a 45ACP. __________________ -Josh Deut. 12.32

June 2, 2007, 10:37 AM	#49
obxned Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2007 Location: OBX, NC Posts: 1,128	What kind of camping? Camping in a National Forest campground that can be reached by car has different dangers than a camp site 3 days by horse from the trailhead. __________________ “If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth.” Ronald Reagan I'm a proud member of a North Carolina *Committee of Safety*

June 3, 2007, 03:28 PM	#50
Zombie Steve Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2007 Location: Old Colorado City Posts: 527	.357 mag with full house loads works fine in Colorado. It seems to hit that sweet spot of power and shootability for me. I still worry about 2 legged critters more than 4 legged in the mountains.