Best Option (car intrusion)

KingEdward · February 5, 2010, 12:06 PM

Due to an event (which happened to another tenant), I wanted to see what
the views/actions of the members here would be. Here is the scenario and what is your order of operations with similar situation?

I live in an apartment which fronts the parking lot (both the den and the bedroom windows). It's on the second floor and about 30 feet above where I park along side about 10 other cars.

It's 1 AM. Looking out the window I see one male standing next to my car near the trunk. I see another guy has broken into the car and is sitting in the passenger seat.

Here is what I will NOT do: exit the apartment with firearm and "challenge" perps.

Here is what I likely WOULD do:

1) call the police (where / what / who - get over here please)
2) jot down the description of the perps in small notebook
3) observe from vantage point and take pictures with cell phone
4) wait for the police (where I live, they would probably arrive in 3 min or less)

Here is what I would be tempted to do but try to keep level head:

1) call the police
2) slide open the window and rack the mossberg 500
3) when they look up, say "evening, what the *%()$ are you doing"
4) "The police are on the way"

While I would want to confront them in some way from the higher ground, and try to make them vamoose, logic says they are more likely to stay and get caught and I am more likely to remain anonymous to them if I call Police, jot down notes, observe, and wait.

What would you do if it were your apartment and your car?

TN law has castle doctrine. An intrusion into my apartment and fearing grave harm is clearer legally than out in the parking lot and messing with the car which is certainly NOT a threat to my person.

FreakGasolineFight · February 5, 2010, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Here is what I likely WOULD do:

1) call the police (where / what / who - get over here please)
2) jot down the description of the perps in small notebook
3) observe from vantage point and take pictures with cell phone
4) wait for the police (where I live, they would probably arrive in 3 min or less)

That is what I should do in that particular circumstance.

However, I have no doubt that in the given circumstance my natural dumb@$$ery and my love for my car in it's present, unbroken form would kick in and I'd slide the 'ol window back and point the 870 in their general direction.

Your way is a lot better than that, though.

Glenn E. Meyer · February 5, 2010, 12:25 PM

If you point a gun at someone, be prepared for return fire while you are making your speech. Might not happen but it can.

You want to risk it for property?

**OldMarksman** · February 5, 2010, 12:37 PM

Quote:

If you point a gun at someone, be prepared for return fire while you are making your speech. Might not happen but it can.

Excellent point.

And might that someone have a viable defense of justification?

Maromero · February 5, 2010, 12:55 PM

Get an alarm system installed on your car.

ClayInTx · February 5, 2010, 06:25 PM

Commercial alarms are generally worthless. Every good thief (is that an oxymoron?) out there knows how to disable it.

A friend of mine had his alarm equipped Corvette stolen in the middle of the afternoon in an open parking lot in full view of the office. The alarm never made the first beep.

I go with the scenario to call the police and lay low.

Brian Pfleuger · February 5, 2010, 06:33 PM

Grab the camera and dial 911.

I would make no effort to alert them to my presence at all. The more film time I get the better. Easier to identify them, more likely to catch them committing more crimes. Smile for the camera, dirt bag!

N.H. Yankee · February 6, 2010, 07:59 AM

I would opt for call the police take notes and wait, that's what we have insurance for. I have always said, ain't nothin worth going out the door for except the life of a loved one, call 911 and prepare to defend if it comes to battle.

I didn't worry about breakins with my last winter beater, my wife got a free turkey and forgot it in the trunk. The car sat all summer and when I went to get it ready for winter, I had thousands of maggots inside the car, and it STUNK. Sir can you describe the man who broke into your car, yes officer he's the guy covered with maggots.

Uncle Buck · February 6, 2010, 08:33 AM

Call the police and then engage the thieves in a conversation.

Hey, whatcha guys doing?

Breaking in to this guys car. Mind your own business.

Find anything good?

Couple of CDs and an old radio. Shut up and go back inside.

Yeah, the owner of that car is a real jerk, but he hasn't got anything worth stealing. You wanna know who does though?

What? Who? Where? What are you, crazy?

The little car down on the end, by the dumpster. That guy works on computers and has all kinds of tools and equipment in his car. He also lives at the other end of the parking lot.

Hopefully by this time the police have arrived. The more time you spend talking with them, the better you will be able to identify them.

Seriously though, if they have already broken into your car, the majority of the damage is done.

Confronting them at gun point is definitely not a good idea. The chances are if they are breaking into cars, they don't have any money and they will be able to get a good lawyer with your tax dollars. Call the police, remain vigilante and be patient.

Skans · February 6, 2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

That is what I should do in that particular circumstance.

However, I have no doubt that in the given circumstance my natural dumb@$$ery and my love for my car in it's present,

Ditto. I've had my car broken into several times. It is an invasion of my privacy, my freedom and my security, not to mention cost me quite a bit of money each time. The break-ins didn't happen in an appartment - happened at a previouse house I owned. The two times I called the cops out to make a police report, they 1) acted like I was taking up their valuable time; 2) told me not to expect to get my stuff back; 3) pretty much gave a crud about me or the fact that my stuff was stolen.

Sorry if this offends some people's sense of safety good judgment, but If I catch someone in the act of breaking into my car, I will grab my gun and confront them. I'm not going to rely on cops to protect me, my family or my stuff that I worked many hours to accumulate enough money to purchase. Yes, I am prepared to risk my life, my freedom and everythign I've got to do what I know is right.

My house. My land. My stuff. My responsiblity.

noyes · February 6, 2010, 12:44 PM

JVC Everio featuring 60GB HDD for up to 75 hours of recording

+

Deep cycle battery

+

Adaptor hooked to Deep cycle battery

One of the set ups I use. Can be set up in remote places .

Blue Steel · February 6, 2010, 01:46 PM

Rule #1: Don't leave anything in your car. If you car is burglarized for aftermarket stereo equipment or something installed that is one thing, but most of the reports I see are "I left my purse..." or "I left my laptop..." or the absolute worst "I left my gun..."

And expensive stereo equipment is an invitation to burglars, so save your money until you live somewhere with a garage.

As far as the scenario goes, if you live somewhere where you expect a timely police response I would go with call 9-1-1 while observing and not alerting the turds. Once you confront them, they will flee and probably escape which means they will be back at it again tomorrow night.

If you live in a rural area, or feel like they are getting ready to flee then you have to decide if you are going to confront them or not. This is a personal decision and I don't think one answer is right or wrong. If you decide to confront them I would do so while on the phone with 9-1-1, and from a position of cover. Use clear command verbiage and do not say anything that sounds like you are "trigger-happy".

"You...Don't move!....I have a gun...Don't move...I've called the police."

If challenged physically then defend yourself, if they flee then I would give a good description and direction of travel. I would not go armed, chasing someone into the dark while police are responding.

OuTcAsT · February 6, 2010, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Here is what I will NOT do: exit the apartment with firearm and "challenge" perps.

Here is what I likely WOULD do:

1) call the police (where / what / who - get over here please)
2) jot down the description of the perps in small notebook
3) observe from vantage point and take pictures with cell phone
4) wait for the police (where I live, they would probably arrive in 3 min or less)

^^ That is the most logical response !

Evan Thomas · February 6, 2010, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Here is what I likely WOULD do:

1) call the police (where / what / who - get over here please)
2) jot down the description of the perps in small notebook
3) observe from vantage point and take pictures with cell phone
4) wait for the police (where I live, they would probably arrive in 3 min or less)

Exactly.

Confronting the thieves in this situation is a bad idea, regardless of how long you think the police will take to arrive. You risk escalating the situation and getting shot yourself, and if you end up shooting someone, you will almost certainly be in a world of legal hurt, even if you shot because they approached and threatened you. (If you don't think this can happen, see this thread for a case in which a man followed two burglars while on the phone with 911, and shot one when the suspect approached his car and broke the window -- he was charged with first degree murder, IIRC.)

You're not a cop, or some sort of action hero. You do not have the power to detain someone in this situation: if they walk away, you can't shoot them for doing so. And it's not, in any case, worth shooting anybody over property.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldMarksman

Quote:

If you point a gun at someone, be prepared for return fire while you are making your speech. Might not happen but it can.

Excellent point.

And might that someone have a viable defense of justification?

I don't think so, given that "someone" is committing a crime at the time -- I think that would negate a self-defense claim by one of the thieves. But it would still be foolish to go out of your way to put yourself in a position to be shot at: the fact that you provoked the confrontation could well negate your own self-defense claim if you shot back.

LordofWar · February 6, 2010, 08:33 PM

Totally depends how I'm feeling that day

A.
1. Fit a drum mag in one of my AKs and spray like a cat marking its territory.

2. Threaten my insurance to get me a new car or they loose my corporate business. :P

OR

B.

1. Go out, verbally mate with their female maternal side of the family.
2. I'll see if they're really needy or some kids in for a quick buck for drugs/recreation. If they're needy I'll probably help them with some cash. If not I'll smack em and have them on their way. Correctional facilities are usually nurseries for career crooks. Considering they're trashing a car they're probably kids anyway.

Oh yeah I'll probably put on Mr BoomBastic or Bad to the Bone on full volume for in transit (my door to the car) entertainment. :P

KingEdward · February 8, 2010, 01:43 PM

thanks all on the replies.

I will keep my distance, observe, record, and give police the
best info possible.

property can be repaired/replaced.

BlueTrain · February 8, 2010, 02:12 PM

Remember me? I'm the guy that nothing ever happens to. Only that is a slight understatement. Something like this happened twice to me where I still live.

The first time was the second night we were there after having moved in. Some welcome! My wife woke me up in the middle of the night (don't remember at what time) and said she heard someone walking around outside. It was September, it was hot and the windows were open. When I looked out the window I spotted someone walking down the sidewalk. I didn't see anything wrong, so I went back to bed. The next morning I discovered that someone had managed to get into the car by way of the fabric sun roof and stolen the radio. This was a Renault and it was not a valuable radio but it was reported nevertheless.

The next thing that happened a few years later was when someone (definately more than one) turned over the same car. It was on the roof the next morning. I never heard a thing. The police came and took the report but there was no damage worth mentioning and I uprighted it by myself. Still, it was vandalism.

Two cases of bad luck. The local paper in their crime reports frequently list a list a lot of minor crimes like stolen license plates and other things from cars, vandalism now and then and the like.

Swampy459 · February 9, 2010, 10:35 AM

I walked out of the apartment one day and saw two rough looking guys breaking into a car with a slim jim. They looked like typical hip-hop gang types.

I took up position behind a gate and started shooting them. I shot each perp as much as possible. Then I zoomed in and shot them some more. My roommate was calling 911 while I was shooting them.

I shot them with my nikon camera btw :-) It turned out that the guys breaking in were the owners cousins that had borrowed the car. They had to sit there waiting for the actual owner to show up and back up their story though.

While talking to the police though, I was able to answer a LOT of questions because I had the camera in my hand and was able to zoom in and see the license plate number in the photo, (too far away to read with my eyes) as well as what color shirt each was wearing, what pants, what brand of shoes and the make and model of the car..... stuff I never would have been able to regurgitate from memory...

with a camera on every cell phone, use them!! I flip my video on and record even during odd encounters / meetings that are not threatening... "I never said that" ... "oh really? here's the video..."

Brian Pfleuger · February 9, 2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swampy459

with a camera on every cell phone, use them!! I flip my video on and record even during odd encounters / meetings that are not threatening... "I never said that" ... "oh really? here's the video..."

Word of caution.... this is not legal in some places..... know your laws.

cloud8a · February 10, 2010, 01:02 AM

Depends on my mood. Like right now I am pretty relaxed and happy, warm and have a beer. I would stay inside the house call the police and take pictures. I would though get my gun just in case they decided the car did not have enough and wanted to try the house.
Now if the kids have been screaming all day, my car had broke down on the interstate, and the dog had used the carpet as a toilet, I might take a couple of guys breaking into my car as the straw that broke the camels back. Call the cops, get the camera, draw down on the jerks and tell them to go away fast. But remember if you chose the last option, you must except the fact that you might die yourself, kill another person, and or spend the rest of your life dealing with the results of your mood because of one bad day.

February 5, 2010, 12:25 PM	#3
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	If you point a gun at someone, be prepared for return fire while you are making your speech. Might not happen but it can. You want to risk it for property? __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

February 5, 2010, 06:25 PM	#6
ClayInTx Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,066	Good hypothetical scenario. Commercial alarms are generally worthless. Every good thief (is that an oxymoron?) out there knows how to disable it. A friend of mine had his alarm equipped Corvette stolen in the middle of the afternoon in an open parking lot in full view of the office. The alarm never made the first beep. I go with the scenario to call the police and lay low.

February 5, 2010, 06:33 PM	#7
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Grab the camera and dial 911. I would make no effort to alert them to my presence at all. The more film time I get the better. Easier to identify them, more likely to catch them committing more crimes. Smile for the camera, dirt bag! __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

February 6, 2010, 07:59 AM	#8
N.H. Yankee Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2004 Location: Rural N.H. Posts: 1,586	I would opt for call the police take notes and wait, that's what we have insurance for. I have always said, ain't nothin worth going out the door for except the life of a loved one, call 911 and prepare to defend if it comes to battle. I didn't worry about breakins with my last winter beater, my wife got a free turkey and forgot it in the trunk. The car sat all summer and when I went to get it ready for winter, I had thousands of maggots inside the car, and it STUNK. Sir can you describe the man who broke into your car, yes officer he's the guy covered with maggots. __________________ The real danger to America is not abroad but within.. Having an open mind is a good thing, but not so open that your brains fall out! Save America, abort liberalism.

February 6, 2010, 08:33 AM	#9
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	Call the police and then engage the thieves in a conversation. Hey, whatcha guys doing? Breaking in to this guys car. Mind your own business. Find anything good? Couple of CDs and an old radio. Shut up and go back inside. Yeah, the owner of that car is a real jerk, but he hasn't got anything worth stealing. You wanna know who does though? What? Who? Where? What are you, crazy? The little car down on the end, by the dumpster. That guy works on computers and has all kinds of tools and equipment in his car. He also lives at the other end of the parking lot. Hopefully by this time the police have arrived. The more time you spend talking with them, the better you will be able to identify them. Seriously though, if they have already broken into your car, the majority of the damage is done. Confronting them at gun point is definitely not a good idea. The chances are if they are breaking into cars, they don't have any money and they will be able to get a good lawyer with your tax dollars. Call the police, remain vigilante and be patient. __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

February 5, 2010, 12:06 PM	#1
KingEdward Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Location: The Volunteer State Posts: 439	Best Option (car intrusion) Due to an event (which happened to another tenant), I wanted to see what the views/actions of the members here would be. Here is the scenario and what is your order of operations with similar situation? I live in an apartment which fronts the parking lot (both the den and the bedroom windows). It's on the second floor and about 30 feet above where I park along side about 10 other cars. It's 1 AM. Looking out the window I see one male standing next to my car near the trunk. I see another guy has broken into the car and is sitting in the passenger seat. Here is what I will NOT do: exit the apartment with firearm and "challenge" perps. Here is what I likely WOULD do: 1) call the police (where / what / who - get over here please) 2) jot down the description of the perps in small notebook 3) observe from vantage point and take pictures with cell phone 4) wait for the police (where I live, they would probably arrive in 3 min or less) Here is what I would be tempted to do but try to keep level head: 1) call the police 2) slide open the window and rack the mossberg 500 3) when they look up, say "evening, what the *%()$ are you doing" 4) "The police are on the way" While I would want to confront them in some way from the higher ground, and try to make them vamoose, logic says they are more likely to stay and get caught and I am more likely to remain anonymous to them if I call Police, jot down notes, observe, and wait. What would you do if it were your apartment and your car? TN law has castle doctrine. An intrusion into my apartment and fearing grave harm is clearer legally than out in the parking lot and messing with the car which is certainly NOT a threat to my person. __________________ "It'll happen fast once I start" - Charlie Waite

February 5, 2010, 12:55 PM	#5
Maromero Junior member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Location: Outside the continental U Posts: 752	Get an alarm system installed on your car.

February 6, 2010, 12:44 PM	#11
noyes Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 1,032	JVC Everio featuring 60GB HDD for up to 75 hours of recording + Deep cycle battery + Adaptor hooked to Deep cycle battery One of the set ups I use. Can be set up in remote places .

February 6, 2010, 01:46 PM	#12
Blue Steel Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 185	Rule #1: Don't leave anything in your car. If you car is burglarized for aftermarket stereo equipment or something installed that is one thing, but most of the reports I see are "I left my purse..." or "I left my laptop..." or the absolute worst "I left my gun..." And expensive stereo equipment is an invitation to burglars, so save your money until you live somewhere with a garage. As far as the scenario goes, if you live somewhere where you expect a timely police response I would go with call 9-1-1 while observing and not alerting the turds. Once you confront them, they will flee and probably escape which means they will be back at it again tomorrow night. If you live in a rural area, or feel like they are getting ready to flee then you have to decide if you are going to confront them or not. This is a personal decision and I don't think one answer is right or wrong. If you decide to confront them I would do so while on the phone with 9-1-1, and from a position of cover. Use clear command verbiage and do not say anything that sounds like you are "trigger-happy". "You...Don't move!....I have a gun...Don't move...I've called the police." If challenged physically then defend yourself, if they flee then I would give a good description and direction of travel. I would not go armed, chasing someone into the dark while police are responding. __________________ "I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts." -Will Rogers

February 6, 2010, 08:33 PM	#15
LordofWar Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2009 Location: Pakistan Posts: 646	Totally depends how I'm feeling that day A. 1. Fit a drum mag in one of my AKs and spray like a cat marking its territory. 2. Threaten my insurance to get me a new car or they loose my corporate business. :P OR B. 1. Go out, verbally mate with their female maternal side of the family. 2. I'll see if they're really needy or some kids in for a quick buck for drugs/recreation. If they're needy I'll probably help them with some cash. If not I'll smack em and have them on their way. Correctional facilities are usually nurseries for career crooks. Considering they're trashing a car they're probably kids anyway. Oh yeah I'll probably put on Mr BoomBastic or Bad to the Bone on full volume for in transit (my door to the car) entertainment. :P

February 8, 2010, 01:43 PM	#16
KingEdward Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Location: The Volunteer State Posts: 439	thanks all on the replies. I will keep my distance, observe, record, and give police the best info possible. property can be repaired/replaced. __________________ "It'll happen fast once I start" - Charlie Waite

February 8, 2010, 02:12 PM	#17
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	Remember me? I'm the guy that nothing ever happens to. Only that is a slight understatement. Something like this happened twice to me where I still live. The first time was the second night we were there after having moved in. Some welcome! My wife woke me up in the middle of the night (don't remember at what time) and said she heard someone walking around outside. It was September, it was hot and the windows were open. When I looked out the window I spotted someone walking down the sidewalk. I didn't see anything wrong, so I went back to bed. The next morning I discovered that someone had managed to get into the car by way of the fabric sun roof and stolen the radio. This was a Renault and it was not a valuable radio but it was reported nevertheless. The next thing that happened a few years later was when someone (definately more than one) turned over the same car. It was on the roof the next morning. I never heard a thing. The police came and took the report but there was no damage worth mentioning and I uprighted it by myself. Still, it was vandalism. Two cases of bad luck. The local paper in their crime reports frequently list a list a lot of minor crimes like stolen license plates and other things from cars, vandalism now and then and the like. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

February 9, 2010, 10:35 AM	#18
Swampy459 Junior Member Join Date: February 20, 2009 Posts: 5	Here's what I did... I walked out of the apartment one day and saw two rough looking guys breaking into a car with a slim jim. They looked like typical hip-hop gang types. I took up position behind a gate and started shooting them. I shot each perp as much as possible. Then I zoomed in and shot them some more. My roommate was calling 911 while I was shooting them. I shot them with my nikon camera btw :-) It turned out that the guys breaking in were the owners cousins that had borrowed the car. They had to sit there waiting for the actual owner to show up and back up their story though. While talking to the police though, I was able to answer a LOT of questions because I had the camera in my hand and was able to zoom in and see the license plate number in the photo, (too far away to read with my eyes) as well as what color shirt each was wearing, what pants, what brand of shoes and the make and model of the car..... stuff I never would have been able to regurgitate from memory... with a camera on every cell phone, use them!! I flip my video on and record even during odd encounters / meetings that are not threatening... "I never said that" ... "oh really? here's the video..."

February 10, 2010, 01:02 AM	#20
cloud8a Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 399	Depends on my mood. Like right now I am pretty relaxed and happy, warm and have a beer. I would stay inside the house call the police and take pictures. I would though get my gun just in case they decided the car did not have enough and wanted to try the house. Now if the kids have been screaming all day, my car had broke down on the interstate, and the dog had used the carpet as a toilet, I might take a couple of guys breaking into my car as the straw that broke the camels back. Call the cops, get the camera, draw down on the jerks and tell them to go away fast. But remember if you chose the last option, you must except the fact that you might die yourself, kill another person, and or spend the rest of your life dealing with the results of your mood because of one bad day.