Double taps - got tips?

[Dino.]

My double taps are more like slow fire.

Any tips for practicing double taps to help my speed and accuracy would be greatly appreciated.

[gearhounds]

Practice, practice, practice. Mine really improved a few years back when I discovered thumbs forward, but I understand it is not the cure all for everyone. Try not to look through your sights, but over top of them. Since, for the most part, double taps are a close range phenomenon, they are best done instinctively. No doubt, aimed fire will result in tighter groups, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how well close range shooting can be done with instinctive point shooting.

[Dino.]

Thanks gearhounds.

I think my biggest problem is managing recoil for quick follow up shots.
I mostly practice double taps with my G17, so recoil shouldn't really be an issue ... but it is.

"Thumbs forward" is a good tip and a technique I already use.
"Looking over the sights" is another good one ... I'll have to try that.

[chadstrickland]

And it may just be me but if I am only shooting at 1 individual target I practice two sets of double taps or as the army now likes to call them "controlled pair"

[EEL92fs]

Onething if you are using a glock is with thumbs forward turn the support hand forward more and set strong hand thumb on back more.. This makes the weak hand pull the sights down and then the wrists dont move together. Some people do thumbs forward(I did) but have the strong hand thumb not back enough. moving it back more helped me.

Should look like this

[Dino.]

Excellent tip, EEL92fs. Thanks!

I can't wait to try some of this stuff out!.

[45Gunner]

May I suggest that you try triple taps. Two quick shots to center mass and by the time the third round is released you are usually looking at a head shot due to muzzle rise. I was taught that procedure while in the employ of a Federal Agency and I practiced and have come to really like it for eliminating your threat.

[chadstrickland]

Will have to try this, the is certainly intriguing, if only I can learn to do it properly

[mete]

The whole point of a double tap is to pull the trigger for the second shot before the recoil momentum of the first moves the gun.That means you don't wait at all for the second shot ! don't wait for the sights to line up perfectly, don't wait for anything.Double tap of course is for close range fast shooting.

[Dino.]

The whole point of a double tap is to pull the trigger for the second shot before the recoil momentum of the first moves the gun.That means you don't wait at all for the second shot !

I'm confused.

A big part of the recoil momentum is what causes the spent cartridge to be ejected and a fresh round loaded in the chamber. I'm not even sure one could pull the trigger before this sequence of events.

[chadstrickland]

Perhaps he ment that the shooter hasn't felt the full effect of the recoil...as in it happens so fast you don't realize it...idk

[Slopemeno]

A double tap is two aimed shots.

If you want to get better, compete. Join your local USPSA or IDPA league. Get squadded with shooters who are better shooters than you are.

The pressure of shooting in front of the peanut gallery will, at first, make you want to rush. You'll make mistakes, drop shots, etc. Eventually, you'll reach the frustration point and begin to work hard to see where each shot goes, quickly.

From my experience, people put way too much emphasis on how quickly they shoot, and don't bother to put emphasis on where those quick shots end up. Walking along your targets as they're scored with your squad as the RO calls out "one Alpha, one miss, one Charlie, one miss" makes the lesson sink in. Learn to see your front sight all the time- up and down in recoil. Focus on that.

BTW, first shot aimed, second shot unaimed is "The Hammer".

[jon_in_wv]

practice, practice, practice. Thats all there is to it. Start shooting fast pairs over and over. You will get faster pretty quickly. I started shooting faster about a month ago. Now I shoot WAY faster than I did and with no loss of accuracy. THere is a reason top competitors shoot thousands of rounds. Its take a LOT of practice to get good.

[mete]

I know there are photos of this somewhere .When a pistol like a 1911 is fired the slide comes back and the bullet leaves the barrel BEFORE the slide goes all the way back and stops against the frame.During that slide movement almost no recoil is felt. The real recoil starts when the slide hits the frame .The slide returns and when it is fully in battary you can fire again.
However it takes time for the frame to move back and before it does completely the gun is still on target for the second shot .
In theory then the second shot is made before momentum of the slide takes the gun off target. If you wait the gun goes off target !!
It's BANGBANG , not BANG, BANG ! It 's for close in , don't worry about precise aiming, no time for that.

[jon_in_wv]

Sorry but that doesn't make sense. You are saying the frame doesn't move when the slide comes back and somehow you can fire another round before the recoil of the first one?????? Sorry, not buying that.

[mete]

It's a fact even if I don't explain it well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqM_0...eature=related

Watch the difference between slow fire [muzzle rises high] in this video ,and rapid fire [muzzle rises only a small bit].

[Catfishman]

Post #5 - The picture of the thumbs forward grip.

Isn't the strong hand too high?

I know you're supposed to grip it as high as you can, but the top thumb appears to be beside the slide. Am I missing something?

[WANT A LCR 22LR]

Are you shooting at human shaped targets? Real BG don't have a "shoot here" x on them so the standard circular targets are out. A 1/2 man size at 12 ft is my usual practice with a couple of tries at longer / shorter distance.

The indoor range I sometimes use has a spot were the target will move around in the ventilation path. This gets used for real life moving target practice as the BG is unlikely to just stand there. Another practice trick is to turn the target over then run the target cable to where the light is shining from the back. This gives a shadow effect with fuzzy edge lines making it a bit more difficult pick out the center of the target. ( A real life situation might not have perfect lighting. )

[irish52084]

For me to improve, I changed my grip. I get as high and tight a grip as I can with as much surface area of my hands on the frame of the gun as possible. I find that my grip changes slightly for different pistols, but the principle is the same. Get as much contact between the pistol and your hands as possible and as high as possible and grip it firmly. I don't try to push pull the gun or any of that, I grip it hard like I probably will under stress. I certainly shoot much better now than I ever did before and most of it was grip adjustment.

Unless you're thumbs are pressing really hard against the slide, it shouldn't affect the function of the pistol. If you have a pistol like the the CZ75 with the slide inside the frame, you can get your thumbs a little higher.

[jon_in_wv]

Lets put it this way. Arguing or understanding the dynamic of WHY is nice but will it replace practice? No. Not one wit.

[Chainman]

From my days in the military, Double Taps are two aimed shots in quick succession. Usually talking about .25 seconds in between. Shoot, regain sight picture, shoot.

More importantly I was trained to use what we called "hammer pairs".
Not sure if this is the right terminology but what our instructors called it.
If this isn't quit right I apologize...been 10 years now since those fond by-gone days.

I still practice it though, and this is a very good helpful SD technique. As such I've never understood the need for the "faster shot recovery time of smaller calibers". I could never pull the trigger any faster on a M9 or Sig then I could a 1911 (actually slower due to trigger style). This works very very well to about 15yds for putting rounds on target in extremely quick succession .1sea?

I've always enjoyed single action pistols and given them a leg up in this style of shooting and 1911's are a pure joy for fast hammer pairs due to their trigger style.

The best way to actually describe a great hammer pair is to think of when you accidentally squeeze off two rounds on the range after a nice light trigger pull, that second round is usually within a few inches of the first. If you've never done this, you need to practice your trigger pull more and you'll know when you can do it on purpose.

Hammer pairs is the kind of shooting we do in SD. Line up Center of exposed mass (COEM) and shoot two shots as fast as you can pull the trigger. I've practiced for twenty years so mine typically land about 1" apart at COEM at 7yds, then move to the head on the third as you muzzle typically rises to that position anyways.

With enough practice you can extend to a hammer triple and usually keep them all in the size of a watermelon, rising straight up to the head. With even more practice you learn to control the pistol as an extension of you and usually from 15yds and under you should be able to pull the trigger as fast as possible and put the entire magazine through one ragged hole the size of a softball.


Always remember though, fire two shots but don't get mauled because you forget to reassess and apply more shots if required. This got most of our trainees as they would assume anything would stop after two shots. HENCE why the military went with training the Mozambique...not shooting to kill, shooting to stop the threat and this will usually stop the threat.

Guaranteed to stop any living animal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQKr2AkKDU&NR=1


USN 93-99
SBU Coxswain
Gitmo, Roosie Roads, Sabana Seca

[WC145]

Pull the trigger faster. Don't try to aim in between the two shots.

[jon_in_wv]

Not necessarily. I've been practicing fast aimed fire the last few months and I'm shooting .17 second splits USING the sights. It can be done. You have to train your eyes, mind, and you hands to work together. The dynamic is all about you and good techniques and practice, not forgoing techniques or sound shooting to go faster.

[moose_nukelz]

Pull the trigger faster. Don't try to aim in between the two shots.

I really do not agree with this statement. Dumping the magazine at the range is a lot different than trying to stop a threat out in town. A shooter needs to know where there rounds are going when they pull the trigger. Double taps/controlled pairs or what ever you want to call them take time and ammo to develop the skills to do them accurately. I am just telling you now it is going to take a lot of ammo and range time develop these skills and you have to keep doing it to stay proficient.

Take a few basic handgun courses to get a really good understanding of the basic fundamentals of shooting, then take a more advanced course that covers defensive/tactical shooting specifically. My buddy hooked me up with his copy of Magpul's pistol DVD and it was very good because they really break down the fundamentals and how important it is to have those down before moving on to more advanced techniques.

[C0untZer0]

Part of it is keeping a good grip with your left hand on the foregrip, part of it is keeping a snug weld to your shoulder.

The 930 SPX is really easy to do double taps with.

BLAM BLAM

All done...