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Old January 23, 2008, 05:51 PM   #1
SpringBob1911
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Going progressive LnL AP or Dillon? Help me decide please.

I will soon get a progressive press to upgrade my old RCBS single stage.

I have never used a progressive, but have been searching the web for a couple months and reading a lot.

The LnL AP groupies say buy a Hornady LnL AP

The Dillon guys say go blue and don’t look back, stating superior quality and world renown customer support, something about a No BS life time warranty.

Ok, I have been reading horror stories on various forums related to the LnL AP;

I have read of many cases of the die bushings popping out, getting new ones from Hornady and then they still pop out! I like the idea off all dies coming out with a tool head, seems faster to change to a diff caliber.

I have read that the 5th station can’t use a FCD unless you pay Hornady for their proprietary one!

I have read of powder measures that come coated inside with grease or oil, and guys ruining powder, what to hell!

I hear of powder measures with the powder through expander dies, not working and powder going all over the place. And a bear to adjust, Also of powder drops weights all over the scale. Oh just buy a optional micrometer powder bar they say

Then the stories of primer system problems, primers flipping, jamming and running out all over.

Ejector wire breaking constantly.

I almost forgot the case feeder issues.

But you get a 1000 free bullets they say. And the LnL AP is less money.

I wonder if one doesn’t get what one pays for?

I have tried to find a used Dillon, you NEVER see any, wonder why?

So please help me decide red or blue?

Thanks

Bob
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Old January 23, 2008, 06:21 PM   #2
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Now you know why I bought the Lee Classic Turret. I have had zero priming problems and 200 rounds per hour is fast enough for me. I haven't used either of the two you mentioned but feel they will both serve you well. They both have a lifetime warranty and little quirks. It just depends which quirks you can live with. I have also heard a lot of good things about the RCBS Pro 2000. I would have a hard time picking which one I would want out of those three. Good luck.
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Old January 23, 2008, 07:15 PM   #3
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You might try Ebay.
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Old January 23, 2008, 08:02 PM   #4
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Ok, I have been reading horror stories on various forums related to the LnL AP;

Then you probably also saw plenty of folks who hadn't had a lick of trouble with their LNL (maybe because they read and follow instructions?).

I have read of many cases of the die bushings popping out, getting new ones from Hornady and then they still pop out! I like the idea off all dies coming out with a tool head, seems faster to change to a diff caliber.

Depends on how you want to use it. If you only ever have one load per cartridge, then tool heads can be more convenient. But if you have different loads for the same cartridge (i.e. plink/target/hunting etc.) being able to just change a seating die and preset powder charge insert is simpler and much more cost effective than a whole new die plate, PM, and a complete set of dies.

I have read that the 5th station can’t use a FCD unless you pay Hornady for their proprietary one!

Last time I looked, the Lee FCD was proprietary, and you had to pay for it... Besides when needed, the FCD can be modified to work with the ejector wire or in many cases, the ejector wire can work just fine with the FCD.

I have read of powder measures that come coated inside with grease or oil, and guys ruining powder, what to hell!

Do you bother to read and follow instructions that come with your equipment? If not, don't bother, neither brand will suit you.

I hear of powder measures with the powder through expander dies, not working and powder going all over the place. And a bear to adjust, Also of powder drops weights all over the scale. Oh just buy a optional micrometer powder bar they say

Setting the powder through expander up on either press is probably the trickiest part of the whole job. Once adjusted, both systems allow you to swap out preset powder dies, but only Hornady allows you to swap out metering inserts without emptying the PM or using tools (or buying a whole new powder measure). I've seen quite a few Hornady, RCBS or Lee powder measures on Dillon presses, but practically no Dillon PMs on any other brand of progressive press. That ought to tell you something.

Then the stories of primer system problems, primers flipping, jamming and running out all over.

The two people I know personally that have Dillon 550's both prime by hand off press, because of too many problems with the priming system on the press.

Ejector wire breaking constantly.

I think you meant the retention spring, not the ejector wire. Yes, if your ham-fisted, they can break easily. You'd probably lose a few of those brass buttons on the Dillon press too.

I almost forgot the case feeder issues.

But you get a 1000 free bullets they say. And the LnL AP is less money.

I wonder if one doesn’t get what one pays for?

I have tried to find a used Dillon, you NEVER see any, wonder why?

You're kidding me, right? There are plenty of them out there, the problem is, they cost almost as much as new ones.

So please help me decide red or blue?

Sounds like you had your mind made up before you asked...

Andy
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Old January 23, 2008, 09:00 PM   #5
shepherddogs
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I have the LNL. The powder measure was indeed full of oil and difficult to adjust. The case ejector is easily tensioned by hand. I never experienced the primer feed problems some people have noted. The powder measure is very nice if quirksome. All in all I would still buy the press if it didn't even come with the measure. It's very high quality. This may seem crazy but I like the Lee auto-disk measures and keep them set up for each caliber. Then I can just swap dies and shellholders. If I want target accuracy I use an electronic trickler. Never had a Blue one but the LNL is as good as I'll ever need. Mechanically it is very precise. The case retainer spring can be damaged if you don't pay attention. I've not ruined one yet but I can see how it could happen. I called Hornady and ordered 2 of them for spares. They sent them to me for free. Hard to beat that for customer service. Replacing a part that hasn't even broken for free.
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Old January 23, 2008, 09:41 PM   #6
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Not asked but a good short answer: RCBS Pro 2000.
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Old January 23, 2008, 10:32 PM   #7
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I have both the Hornady and the Dillon 650, and if I had to choose between the two, I would go with the Dillon in a heartbeat. No, it is not perfect, but it is simply so much better.

Don't sweat those minor issues you mentioned, all presses have some, and all take some getting used to them.
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Old January 24, 2008, 09:15 AM   #8
KeithB78
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i found a nice article on the LnL

http://www.icantping.com/~mmasuda/hornady_info.html
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Old January 24, 2008, 09:28 AM   #9
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i have the Dillon 650, great service, if you need help or break a part, just call and you will get answers and/or parts.., no charge and they pay shipping, don't forget a subscription to the "Blue Press"
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Old January 24, 2008, 10:52 AM   #10
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Why doesn’t Dillon give away 1000 bullets with a purchase?
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Old January 24, 2008, 10:57 AM   #11
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I can't imagine that's anything but a rhetorical question... but I'll bite: Dillon doesn't make bullets. Hornady does.

A better question would be, "Why does Hornady give away a thousand bullets with a purchase?"
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Old January 24, 2008, 12:01 PM   #12
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Another vote for the RCBS Pro2000. As of ~1 Feb, you can have your choice of automatic or manual indexing.

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Old January 24, 2008, 12:15 PM   #13
DaveInGA
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Bob,

I'll help you out.

You've already made your mind up, get what you want and be happy with it. It's way better and smarter, to realize any of the presses out there will load good ammo and just get what you think suits you and focus on reloading good ammo, rather than wasting time wondering what press is better.

There isn't really a better, there are just different features. I own or have owned stuff from every brand out there and will do so again, if their stuff fits my application. They all make good stuff and they all make junk - they all have good service and they all have bad service incidents (including Dillon), so pick the color that suits you and get on with the fun of reloading.

I personally think trying to figure out whether Ford or Chevy is better debate is pretty much a waste of time. More useful questions would asking help in identifying and understanding the features of each, then deciding which features appear to suit my style of reloading and making purchase decisions based on that, rather than on which brand is better.

Regards,

Dave
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Old January 24, 2008, 12:26 PM   #14
BigJimP
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I've used a number of progressive presses - or tested I should say - including the Hornady - and I've owned a variety of RCBS equipment but when I got back into metallic loading about 3 years ago I purchased a Dillon 650 with the case feeder.

I'm not saying the Hornady or the RCBS are bad presses - they aren't - they're just different - and I've been very happy with the Dillon 650. The only problems I've had with mine - and I've easily run 25,000 rounds thru mine in a variety of calibers ( 9mm, .40, .45acp, .38, .357 mag and .44 mag) - with no problems that I didn't create by not tightening something or not going thru the setup or caliber change properly.

Whatever press you buy - I'd recommond a press with a "powder check" station for a little extra sense of security on your loads. That system is not available on the Dillon SDB or the 550 - so you have to look at the 650 as a minimum with Dillon. I can assure you that the powder measure on the Dillon 650 is very accurate and very consistent. I have no problems with the primer feed or the case feeder - are they perfect, no - but as long as I get a high quality, consistent reload - and a volume of at least 20 boxes an hour - that is all I need. I can afford to buy whatever I want - and if I thought Hornady or RCBS were better presses than the Dillon 650, I would buy one. I think Dillon makes a better product.
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Old January 24, 2008, 12:34 PM   #15
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I agree with Dave. Your mind was made up when you started this thread. (And I agree with your decision, BTW!)
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Old January 24, 2008, 07:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
I personally think trying to figure out whether Ford or Chevy is better debate is pretty much a waste of time. More useful questions would asking help in identifying and understanding the features of each, then deciding which features appear to suit my style of reloading and making purchase decisions based on that, rather than on which brand is better.
I'll second that...and maybe use the search function on the toolbar...
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Old January 24, 2008, 07:21 PM   #17
alan
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I still have an RCBS Jr. press I bought in 1967, the deal included a set of "standard" dies, I took 30-06, at the out the door cost of $26. I haven't used it in quite some time, as I purchased a Dillon 550 in about 1980. It would still work though, slowly as it always did.

The 550 is an excellent machine, Dillon's after sale service leaves, in my experience, nothing to desire.

Their manual used to offer the following admonition re problems with the 550. DON'T SUFFER IN SILENCE. Their toll free telephone number appeared directly below.
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Old January 24, 2008, 07:24 PM   #18
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SpringBob:
Read your post again. You answered your own questions. Your mind is made up. I have the red press and the only area I had a problems with was understanding how to adjust the Powder-thru-expanders. Once I figured it out, they work perfectly. Dillon is an excellent loader and has dominated the market for a long time. Ask yourself the question; "If you had a "newer" product that you wanted to introduce to a market place that is dominated by a single maker, how would you encourage potential customers to look AGAIN at your product?" Seem like a plausable reason to offer 1000 bullets to me. As a whole, us "LNL Groupies" are very happy with our LNL presses. Go buy your blue press and be happy as well. BOTH ARE EXCELLENT PRESSES and each has it's quirks.

BTW, Most retailers on the WEB that sell the LNL are backordered!
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Old January 24, 2008, 09:37 PM   #19
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You can always buy more later!
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Old January 24, 2008, 09:38 PM   #20
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Cool FoxBat you got it covered
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Old January 25, 2008, 10:18 AM   #21
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Go Blue

I've been very happy with my Dillion 550. Best service after the sale that I have ever had too. Take care.....
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