Reloading 45 colt

[44 AMP]

Sorry Pathfinder, I don't know. I do remember seeing some advertised within the last few years, but cannot now remember where, or when exactly as balloon head cases are not in my main area of interest.

Perhaps a check with some of the people involved with CASS would turn up more information.

If I run across info on them in the future, I'll try and get you the details.

[Sarge]

Maplewood uses LBT soft blue which is a great lube, but stickier than what today's commercial bullet buyers are used to. I invariably end up getting lube on the cases. I simply throw the loaded rounds in the tumbler for 4-6 hours which not only cleans the cases but the bullet noses too, turning them dark gray and making the loaded rounds clean to handle. Here's the Lee 452-255-RF I mentioned over 8.5 grains of Universal for 910 fps from my 4 5/8 Vaquero.

[Wendyj]

I made it to Cabellas yesterday and there were no Rcbs dies but they had the Lee 4 die set. Picked the dies, some Starline brass and a box of Hornady 250 grain xtp. I chose a load of 6.1 grains of Titegroup according to Hornady 6.3 was max. Ruger is 5.5 inch barrel and although not at the firing range I got to shoot up a few cylinders at 10-15 yards at some water filled bottles. Accuracy was good and recoil mild enough to shoot one handed. Looked for the 2400 powder but none in site. All in all I think I'm going to be happy with this configuration. Won't know for sure until I can group some paper at different ranges but that's another day.

[44 AMP]

Congratulations! You're off to a good start. I wouldn't be happy with Lee dies, but that's just me, I don't like their ..esthetics..

Be advised that 2400 powder is just beginning to shine when you reach top end loads for your NEW Vaquero. And even then, its going to be noisy, dirty, and have a nice flash.

AVOID H110 /Win 296, these powders are erratic under certain levels and those levels are a bit higher than SAAMI .45 Colt loads. Even finding data for them (other than "Ruger Only" heavy loads, which are not suitable for the New Vaquero) is difficult.

Personally, I have found jacketed bullets to be a waste of money in anything less than the magnum level "Ruger Only" loads, and not a really needed thing, even then. .45 caliber slugs don't NEED to expand to do a great job, unlike smaller calibers, where expansion can be the difference between being ok, and being really good.

However, until it detracts significantly from penetration, expansion doesn't hurt anything, and if the cost is worth it to you, its fine with me.

For your gun, I would stick with medium burning rate pistol powders, and again, I recommend Unique if you can get it.

Pay close attention to your powder charging technique. The .45 Colt is a big case, and a powder that only takes 6-8gr for a full charge doesn't fill it up very much, and a double charge will wreck even a Ruger, and serious injury to the shooter is possible if that happens.

Putting all the charged cases in a loading block and looking at them in a GOOD LIGHT to see if powder levels in the cases are all approximately the same is the usual method. I do that, then set the bullet on the case, upside down.

Alternate is to weigh the charge, charge the case and then seat the bullet one round at a time. What ever method you use, as long as you can be sure to avoid a double charge, its all good.

If you are using a progressive press, I would recommend having things set up so you can easily SEE the powder level before seating the bullet. Even the best machines can screw up a bit, and a visual confirmation that things look "normal" is never a bad idea.

Enjoy shootin'! and ask any questions you want, odds are good someone here has an answer, and, it might even be right!

[Sarge]

The 250 XTP starts expanding well, in water jugs, about 1000 fps.

[rodfac]

Unique is probably the powder most recommended for the .45 Colt, I've found that Win 231 or HP38 does just as well (they're the same powder with a different label according to my chronograph results).

I use Unique or the Win 231/HP38 twins for loads that clock 850 fps from my NV with its 4-5/8" bbl. Good to great accuracy too, with good bullets of the Flat Point Round Nose 255 gr. variety. I cast them from Lyman's excellent 4545190 mold, size them 0.453" and lube with a 50-50 offering from White Label.

Just happened to think: Herco does equally well, tho it takes up to a grain more than Unique for equal velocity. Too, Herco has been seen recently on our LGS shelves.

HTH's Rod

[MosinM39]

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazin...246partial.pdf

A 2007 edition of Handloader Magazine has an article by Brian Pierce for .45 Colt, written around a specific cast bullet, but contains some good general information about loading .45 Colt in different makes of revolvers.

[Mike / Tx]

I was just wondering if the link above had been posted.

That will come in handy in a week or so when your care package arrives...

They will be ready to load and if you find some Unique to go with them you won't have a hard time finding an accurate load. Just remember to bell the case mouth a bit before seating them and all will be well.

[Pathfinder45]

If you are looking for the performance of 2400 powder, AA-9 is just about identical in the 45 Colt for loading data, even though it is a ball-type propellant. I have both, and I much prefer AA-9 in a revolver because it has much less muzzle flash than 2400. These two powders are a little bit too slow burning to be optimal for standard pressure 45 Colt ammo. But they are good enough to be usable if you load them near your maximum allowable pressure with bullets of at least 240 grains, and preferably heavier cast bullets. But in your New Vaquero, you will probably get more consistent results with HS-6 or AA-7 if you want something Slower burning, and thus higher velocity than Unique can give you. But Unique will take you right near 1,000 fps with excellent accuracy. It just depends on how much power you really want and what you and your gun can handle.

[Wendyj]

Pistol powders and some rifle are getting scarce here. Along with primers also. Fortunately I had a good supply of all but the large pistol primers. This is first time I've needed them and only bought a 100 Winchester because that's all they had. I found some meister cast swc I liked online for a real decent price. Hope to order some of the 250 grain to load up after range trial. Looks like same bullet I found in husbands box of cowboy loads. Think my Hornady shows the 250 xtp under my load of Titegroup around 750-800 fps. My new Henry 357 should be here this week so I'm going to take chronograph to the range and see real speed out of both. I had some issues with the Hornady lead round nose loading for my vaquero in 357 following oal suggested by Hornady. Had to seat a few thousands longer in order to crimp correct or you could take the bullet and push it in with your fingers after seating. No cannilure but the Meister bullets have a good crimping groove according to picture so I'll try them just to see how they do. I watched about an hour of lead casting videos this weekend and it was interesting and something I may be interested in investing in. need to read a lot more on it. Guy was melting zinc and lead together for harder bullet as he stated. May be cheaper for me to buy lead bullets than the investment in equipment. I don't want anymore Hornady lead though. I've got 200 left I don't even care to load.

[Sarge]

Wendy if you're talking about the Hornady swaged bullets, I just crimp the case right into the side of the bullet*. Unless your expander plug is oversize, you should have enough neck tension to keep you from pushing a bullet down with your fingers. If that problem is specific to one brand of casings, that's another matter.

I've an old set of Hornady 45ACP/LC/WinMag dies my wife got me for Father's Day over 20 years ago. Seems like I may have chucked that set's expander in a drill press and worked it down 0.003" with 400 and progressively finer silicon carbide paper. I use a mulligan stew of 45 Colt brass and I have plenty neck tension with all of them.

*Long Loads for the Taurus Public Defender

[Wendyj]

Sarge. Thanks for reply. Yes I can load them longer oal. That's the only way I could keep them in the case was to seat and real easy light crimp on the side of the bullet. I would load some more but they were inaccurate as all get out. Also wouldn't feed in my Rossi rifle. I still have 10 or 15 rounds loaded. They might feed in the Henry I've ordered. My Rossi gave me a lot of feeding problems. It chambered 38 all day long but had to hold down at angle and lift lever real easy 5-6 times to get any 357 bullet in it.

[Sarge]

Rossi 92's are like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates. I've had a great 45 Colt and a sorry 357. Based on those two I have a strong preference for the older ones and a determination to get something else next time, in a revolver-caliber lever action.

Keep us posted on your Henry.

[smee78]

Congrats on getting setup to reload the old 45 Colt, this round is what got me into reloading. I love the round but could not afford to feed it so reloading was my only option. I'm a RCBS guy but I'm sure the Lee dies work just fine. I also suggest getting a jug of Unique if you can find some, it is my go to powder for this round and works great. Be sure to let us know how that new setup works for you once you get a chance to test it on paper. I got a new Blackhawk Hunter in 45C that I cant wait to go shoot, will bring some unique reloads right about 8.5 - 9 grains to test it out. Good luck with your new Henry, they sure are smooth actions.

[Pathfinder45]

If the last fifteen years have taught me anything about reloading, at the top of that list would be making do with other powders when you can't obtain your favorites. I have a few favorites for 45 Colt and Unique always gets high praise. Try to never be without it. I shoot a lot of it, but I use plenty of others too. So, within the realm of powders that I have used in this caliber, from fastest, to slowest burning, here's some observations: Titegroup; I love it, am currently using it for mild target loads. Red Dot;I'm out of it and not looking for any more of it because I have Titegroup; but it's just as good and fills the same niche. W-231/HP-38; yep, they're the same even if they don't look the same. excellent powder for accurate mild loads. Like Red Dot, I would be very happy if it was in my Christmas stocking. However, I'm out of it and have been for years now, and it falls between Titegroup and Unique, both of which I have plenty of. And then, I was given the remains of a big canister of Hercules Green Dot. I still have well over a pound of it, probably wouldn't be looking for more of it, but it sure works well and I'm happy to have it as my 45 likes it. SR-4756; shot pretty well, but with noticeable unburned powder. Next up is Unique. Can't say anything but good, good, good, about it. I would be looking to buy more of it if I weren't so well stocked with it already. It's the standard to judge other pistol powders by. OK, so I've burned up a pound of AA-5 and it's alright, maybe even a little better than just alright. But I can take or leave it, don't really feel I need it. Next up, Blue Dot; it's the first powder that I really did not like, with lots of remaining unburned powder, perhaps the dirtiest powder in my experiments; I think it needed more pressure to do its job. And then there was Hodgdon's HS-7. Why, oh, why, did they stop making this excellent powder? Some say that it's the same powder as W-571. Having obtained both, my experiments indicate that that is probably true. I would buy more of it if I could. And then there is 2400, a good magnum-pistol powder despite the notable muzzle flash; some shooters like to have a fire breathing dragon in their hands. Which is why I prefer AA-9 that otherwise does the same job with less flash. Next up is W-296/H-110; these twins I can totally live without. They belong in a 44 magnum and work well in really hot 45 Colt +p loadings that would soon wreck a New Vaquero and perhaps instantly destroy any lesser strength guns. Don't forget these two; rather, avoid them. Lastly, a powder that is slightly slower burning, yet is for more versatile and forgiving with, a wider range of acceptable loads; IMR-4227 is one worth having around. Especially if you also have a carbine or rifle to go with it. In the New Vaquero, it will be at it's best with loads approaching maximum pressure for a good burn. The same load from a revolver to a rifle can easily gain 300 fps with powders this slow. I've run some other powders, but these are the ones that I've used enough to feel that I have valid comments to share about. Now that I think of all the pounds I've burn't, I think I must be close to 20,000 rounds through my Vaquero. Which means I'm way behind some of the other fellows here. Happy Powder Shopping.

[Chainsaw.]

I use titegroup in 44mag for solid plinkers. It is a fast powder so it still has a little snap to it but very slight. I really like that powder.

If you havent already used this its great.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com

[Slamfire]

Only handgun powder I have is hp38 and Titegroup.

It has been a very long time since I shot any W231/HP38 in my 45 Long Colt's. Winchester W231 is the exact same stuff as HP 38, just packed in a different can and priced to meet the psychological level of happiness of the purchaser.

Unique is the best all around powder, in my experience, for standard 45 LC loads. Out of a five inch revolver standard loads are around 850 feet per second with a 250 to 255 grain bullet. I don't think 900 feet per second is over pressure, but 1000 fps load are on the hot side for N Frame S&W's and Colt SSA replicas.

I chronographed these loads a long time ago, based on my experience with W231 I would bump them up a half grain if I was using 250 Jacketed.

5" M25-7

255 LSWC (.452") 7.1 grs W231 Fed 150 primers
27-Jan-91 T ≈ 40 - 45 ° F

Ave Vel = 741
Std Dev = 16
ES = 43
Low = 714
High = 757
N = 6


255 LSWC 7.1 grs W231 Fed 150 primers
1-Feb-90 T ≈ 55 ° F

Ave Vel = 804
Std Dev = 21
ES = 57
Low = 774
High = 831
N = 7


I did shoot and test 2400 in the 45 LC. I am of the opinion that it is not an appropriate powder for standard pressure loads in this cartridge, especially in a light weight New Vaquero. However, this is a data point.

255 LSWC 17.0 grs 2400 little dandy rotor R21 Fed 150 primers
1-Feb-90 T ≈ 55 ° F

Ave Vel = 959
Std Dev = 55
ES = 175
Low = 864
High = 1039
N = 6

[GeauxTide]

You must use Cast in the Colt. I've used Missouri 255s, Hunter Supply 275s, and Matt's 285s under 9-10 gr of Unique in my full size Blackhawk. They shoot fantastic. My son shot a 150# hog with the 275s in the eye socket and it made another butthole going out.

[44 AMP]

TO be clear, the OP has a NEW VAQUERO.

While those of us who have them love them, Ruger ONLY loads from full size (44 mag frame size "new model") Blackhawk .45s do not apply here.
(deleted most of the post, because, looking back, it was things I had already said...)

I have seen a different way of describing .45 Colt power levels than "standard" and "Ruger Only", and it is less confusing, but its not yet in as widespread use.

Tier I ammo:
Loads at the "standard" original black powder pressure and velocity levels.

Tier II
Hotter loads, up to handloading book max for the COLT SAA (approx. 1000fps/250gr bullet)

Tier III
loads above Tier II, including "Ruger Only", and not safe in guns with the same strength as the Colt SAA.

[Sarge]

Good that you pointed that out 44AMP. It does make more sense than just 'standard' or Ruger Only 45 Colt loads.

I believe John Linebaugh pioneered the second Tier, or was at least one of the first to document it while working out woods loads for the S&W 25-5. Brian Pearce carried it a bit further and worked out a series of loads in the 20,000 CUP range using the RCBS 270SAA, known to drop from the mold about 285 grains.

I can think of a few applications where a 285 grain bullet might beat a 255; but real world differences are small. I've shot through deer longways with a 255 at 1100 (from a Blackhawk) and watched the bullet churn leaves 50-60 yards beyond.

But there's no need to strain the revolver. That load didn't accomplish anything that a good wide meplat 255 at 950 would not have done. The 45 Colt, loaded to original blackpowder ballistics, is a powerful handgun.

[Slamfire]

TO be clear, the OP has a NEW VAQUERO.

While those of us who have them love them, Ruger ONLY loads from full size (44 mag frame size "new model") Blackhawk .45s do not apply here.

The last I chronographed factory ammunition in the 45 LC was 1999, it has all been handloads since then. And the definition of standard has not been agreed on yet, but I consider "standard" loads to be smoke less loads that meet 44 AMP's Tier 1. And even that, I would not fire any smokeless load in a black powder era Colt, because I don't trust the metallurgy, and originals are too expensive to own, never mind blow up. I don't have one, passed over one in the 1980's, very reasonably priced, because it was a blackpowder frame. I had no idea that that the value of even restored blackpowder Colt SAA's would gain so much. To me, I wanted a shooter, and I did not want to load blackpowder.

I hope the Original Poster is comparing what people are recommending against a reloading manual. Some of the loads, and powder recommendations, while they are just perfect for a Ruger SuperRedhawk, or a Freedom Arms revolver, are a might stiff for a Ruger New Vaquero.

[Sarge]

Just for the record the 8.5 grains of Universal load I mentioned is listed in the 3rd Edition of Metallic Cartridge Reloading, page 326. It was tested at 14,200 CUP with a 250 grain jacketed bullet. I substitute a 255 grain lead and ain't a-feared. Some well known 'sixgun writers' have also used that load with a lead SWC or RNL bullet, published the data and they ain't blowed up yet. Your Mileage May Vary.

[Pathfinder45]

Since the New Vaquero has a lower safe pressure limit, it is best suited to powders that burn most consistently at that pressure. Looking at Slamfire's post, one can't help but notice the wide extreme velocity spread between shots when 2400 is used compared to W-231 powder. 2400 will become more consistent from shot to shot if the pressure is increased to a level that, quite frankly, is just not safe for the New Vaquero. Thus, a safe load using 2400 will likely not shoot nearly as accurately as a load using powders that burn substantially faster. For the New Vaquero, it's really hard to beat Unique.

[Wendyj]

I did find a pound of Unique today and will have to research some loading material on it. Per poster I am reading manuals with lower ends for hand gun not Ruger only. Coming from Hornady, Sierra, and Lyman manuals. I have no desire to load and blow up.
I did find the Unique at the store which had my Henry 357 come in today. Picture attached. Only scope I could find today. Was going to use Redfield but it's on my muzzleloader and we have 2 weeks left. All in all I think I really like the rifle. Chambers everything I've put in it so far. Now to get it zeroed in and chronograph both 45 and the rifle this weekend.

[Slamfire]

I have shot lots of Unique in my various 45 LC’s. Loaded down to 8.0 grains with a 250-255 L, it is softer shooting than the 8.5 grains load and is just as accurate in my opinion. I have a bunch of data with Unique and it is interesting to see how the velocities vary between charges, there is one data group where the average of an 8.0 grain load is higher than an 8.5 grain data group, but that is the sort of anomalies you get with small sample sizes.

I tested both 0.452” lead and 0.454” bullets, and as long as the chamber mouths were 0.452”, I did not find a velocity or accuracy difference. Some 45 LC’s have 0.454” or greater chamber mouths and they won’t shoot well with 0.452” cast lead bullets. My 1973 Ruger Blackhawk has 0.454” chamber mouths, but it is my recollection my Ruger Vaquero miked out at 0.452”.

M625-9 Mountain Gun 4" Barrel 



250 JHP 8.5 grs Unique thrown, W-W cases, WLP primers 
18-Mar-07 T = 55 °F V, accurate 
Ave Vel = 830 
Std Dev = 30 
ES= 103.5 
High= 893.4 
Low= 789.8 
Number Shots= 12 



255 LSWC (.452") 8.0 grs Unique thrown, lot 6/21/1993Starline cases, WLP primers 
25-Mar-07 T = 80 °F accurate 
Ave Vel = 800 
Std Dev = 30 
ES 99.02 
High 847.2 
Low 748.1 
Number Shots 11 


250 LRN (.452")  8.0 grs Unique lot 6/21/1993 thrown, R-P cases, WLP primers
25-Mar 07 T = 80°F accurate 
Ave Vel = 814 
Std Dev = 24 
ES 72.81 
High 847 
Low 774.2 
Number Shots 11 


250 LRN (.454") 8.5 grs Unique thrown lot 5471, 4/3/06, R-P cases, WLP primers

25-Mar-07 T = 80 °F accurate 
Ave Vel = 891 
Std Dev = 17 
ES 61.31 
High 921.1 
Low 859.8 
Number Shots 27 

255 LSWC (.452") 8.0 grs Unique lot 6/21/1993 mixed cases WLP (nickel) 

23-Sep-07 T = 82 °F 

Ave Vel = 802.5 
Std Dev = 31.03 
ES = 123.5 
High = 867.2 
Low = 743.6 
N = 12 

5 1/2" USFA Rodeo			
					
255 LSWC (.452") 8.0 grs Unique  thrown, lot 6/21/1993, Starline cases, WLP primers				
25-Mar-07	T = 80 °F
		
Ave Vel =864	 	 	 
Std Dev =28	 	 	
ES  =	75	 	 	
High  =898.8		 	
Low  =	800.1		 	
Number Shots	24	

255 LSWC (.454") 8.5 grs Unique  thrown, R-P cases, WLP primers				
12-May-02	T = 84°F			
				
Ave Vel =844	 	 	 
Std Dev =33	 	 	
ES  =	117.8	 	 	
High  =907.6		 	
Low  =	   789.8		 	
Number Shots	12			

240 JHP Sierra (.4515") 8.5 grs Unique  thrown, R-P cases, CCI300 primers				
12-May-02	T = 84°F			
				
Ave Vel =848	 	 	 
Std Dev =54	 	 	
ES  =	146.4	 	 	
High  =911.8		 		
Low  =	765.3		 		
Number Shots: 6