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June 8, 2016, 10:57 PM | #1 |
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Best 45acp powder , with specific requirements
Ok I'm sure this is asked 50 times a year but I thought I'd add a twist-ish by putting forth the things I want in the powder that would make it best for me
First lets start with the bullet/s I'll use the most . 200gr plated RN about 75% of the time . 230gr lead and plated RN 20% of the time and 230gr JHP 5% of the time Firearms used . XD45 compact & Springfield 5" 1911 What I want from the powder . Clean burning , Not kinda clean , not clean enough . I want a powder that every reloader would say oh yeah that's some clean burning powder . Forgiving , Meaning consistent and not to temperamental Velocity is not a big deal but I would like the 230gr JHP's to get up over 900fps Meters really well . Not pretty good but GREAT ! NO ! scorched or sooty cases , NONE !!!! Powders I have Titegroup WSF HS-6 CFE-pistol Auto comp Longshot The only one of those that even comes close to all of the above is Titegroup . How ever I've heard it can be temperamental pushing the heavier bullets which then gives it a negative for getting the 230gr bullets up in the 900fps+ range . Locally it's slim pickins around here and what is around is $34 lb . I went to the gun show a few weeks ago for primers and bullets and saw they had a good amount of powders to choose from . I'll be going again on July 9th . What other powders meet my specs as far as what I would consider "best" powder ?
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; June 8, 2016 at 11:03 PM. |
June 8, 2016, 11:18 PM | #2 |
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Hodgdon's Universal comes to mind.
"Clays" also. But, it can be "tempermental". It is a great powder for the .45acp. Super clean, easy[soft] recoil and accurate as heck. |
June 9, 2016, 07:01 AM | #3 |
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I think you're looking for MUF powder.
Magical Unicorn Fart powder, manufactured by Leprechaun Industries.
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"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. |
June 9, 2016, 07:15 AM | #4 |
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What Mike said!
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June 9, 2016, 08:27 AM | #5 |
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What Mike said...
I like how you say "velocity is not a big deal", but yet you want to push a 230 grain FMJ 900+ FPS. The fastest load in my Lyman manual is only 878. Come on now. |
June 9, 2016, 09:12 AM | #6 |
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Personally I want a powder that returns my gun to factory new condition every time I pull the trigger.
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"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. |
June 9, 2016, 09:15 AM | #7 | |
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LOL I've heard of that manufacture . They're over there at the end of Rainbow lane right .
Quote:
I've seen data that shows Longshot , 800x and CFE pistol all pushing 230gr JHP over 900fps . For lead I think there's at least one more maybe two . I willing to use a different powder for that 5% , Example : Universal will do 95% of my loads and CFE will do the other 5%
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; June 9, 2016 at 09:20 AM. |
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June 9, 2016, 09:20 AM | #8 |
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Regarding scorched/sooty brass...
You do realize that that's a factor of a wide variety of things, not just the powder itself, right? Chamber pressure, brass hardness, bullet neck tension, condition of chamber, etc., all can have an effect on whether the brass obturates fully or not. And, if you're shooting lead even part of the time, powder cleanliness really becomes a null factor because bullet lube creates a significant amount of dirt in the gun.
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"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. |
June 9, 2016, 09:25 AM | #9 |
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Clean burning powder is a small part of the equation.
I think new cases with a primer seated hard to the very bottom of that pristine pocket and a jacketed or plated bullet seated tight in clean springy new brass will shoot clean with most powders. Hmm. Something to work on when it is too hot or cold for volume shooting. |
June 9, 2016, 09:28 AM | #10 | |
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Quote:
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
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June 9, 2016, 09:32 AM | #11 | |
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Quote:
2. You will, find nothing that every reloader agrees on. |
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June 9, 2016, 09:35 AM | #12 |
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So, if you do realize it, then you do realize that it's an expectation that NO powder can meet 100% of the time because it can be caused by factors outside of the powder's burn cleanliness, right?
Even the cleanest burning powder can, and will, soot and scorch cases.
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"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. |
June 9, 2016, 09:42 AM | #13 |
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Spending more time at the range would be more productive than trying to save time at the cleaning bench or cogitation over the perfect (and largely imaginary) load.
It's a lot more fun, too.
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June 9, 2016, 09:46 AM | #14 |
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Try VV N340. You may be in for a surprise.
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June 9, 2016, 10:02 AM | #15 | |
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I was looking at N-320 , but N-340 may do it
Quote:
If we need to we can take out the 900fps and and change it to 800fps +
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
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June 9, 2016, 10:17 AM | #16 |
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"Lets assume and or look for guys that found the magical fart powder . What is it ?"
Well, literally, not getting too bent out of shape/wrapped around the axle trying to achieve what is realistically not achievable combined with enjoying shooting my guns and not sweating the fact that powder residue happens.
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"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. |
June 9, 2016, 11:40 AM | #17 |
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Your request has been around for years at the powder Mfg. lab.
As for you since you are a reloader you might want to try and experiment a little bit with what you want and make your own decision how to get it. It's time to think on your own. That's only my opinion. |
June 9, 2016, 11:45 AM | #18 | ||
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Quote:
Example of my point and or what I'm looking for . I could not find pistol powder for a couple years locally and did not want to buy bulk online because handgun loading is/was new to me . Only been loading pistol for about a year and did not want to buy 10 or 20 lbs of powder I ended up unhappy with . The first two powders I found were Longshot and Auto comp . They were both very dirty , sooty , scorching powders . Then one day I came across Titegroup and bought some . It seemed like I found my fart powder . I like it a lot , it burns real clean for me and zero scorching in both 45 and 9mm . That's what got me thinking with all the powders out there . Maybe there's even a better powder then Titegroup . So I started a thread asking what's the best . I felt it would be best to narrow down the powders possibilities though . I've read enough about 45 powders to know if I just ask "what the best 45acp powder" ? I'd not only get pretty much every medium burn rate powder suggested . I get even more questions as to what's best mean to you , are you looking for power factor etc etc . By narrowing what the definition of best powder meant for the thread . It would narrow down the responses to the one that will directly equate to my wants . I'm in no way trying to be difficult . Seeing how I have little experience with pistol powders I was hoping some one here has that magic powder like Titegroup appeared to be when I first used it . Quote:
This thread is to at minimum narrow that search down . I think I know about what burn rate I'm looking for but I don't know what types of powders those are in that range . Ball , Flake or what . I'm ok with loading hundreds of rounds If in the end it gets me to the place I'm headed . I really don't have the funds to waist on components that will llikely never work for me . Some of this may have to do with the fact I'm not a pistol guy per-say . I'll spend a boat load of money and time developing my rifles loads . Pistols not so much .
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; June 9, 2016 at 12:01 PM. |
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June 9, 2016, 12:15 PM | #19 | |||||||
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TiteGroup meters great. And it's generally clean. But it is temperamental. And its burn rate is too fast to drive 230's to the velocity you mentioned. It'll run great under your plated 200's - pretty much ideal, actually. It'll push your 230 plated RNs nicely too - but velocities will be modest. But I would discourage its use under your 230 lead bullets - this because it runs so hot, it seems to melt lead and deposit it in the barrel; at least, with every barrel I've tried running lead/TG. HS-6 - being an intermediate speed propellant - will get your 230 JHP's moving right along. I have chrono data to prove that HS-6 can drive a 230 (Hornady XTP) to over 900 f/s (that's just my experience; for safety, conduct your own workups). But that is absolute max. HS-6 runs cool, and that is a good characteristic for lead. And it may work well for your 230 lead RN's. But you'll have to turn them up to run clean. You talk about clean burning. Okay. Well, all propellants are clean when they're loaded to proper pressure levels for that given propellant. Propellants run sooty when they're not loaded properly - period. The question boils down to one's definition of "clean." To me, it means that a propellant will run clean over a broad range of charge levels for a given caliber/bullet weight. In that context, HS-6 is not a "clean" propellant. So that's what I have. Hope it was somewhat helpful (and respectful).
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June 9, 2016, 12:38 PM | #20 |
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Another vote for VV N340. It does an excellent job with 45acp. and very clean.
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June 9, 2016, 12:54 PM | #21 |
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Nick :
Thanks that's the type of replies I'm hoping for . I was thinking of switching to 185gr bullets with the Titegroup ??? You feel maybe the 200gr bullets are better ?? You need not stick to the powders I have . Right now I see we have Universal and N340 being suggested . I was considering N320 . I'll likely be buying something new on the 9th of July Anyone have opinions or use these powders for the purposes outlined above ?
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
June 9, 2016, 01:21 PM | #22 | |
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Quote:
I shoot a lot of 45's, probably 95% with Win 231. Never noticed it being dirty or sooty, but I must admit that I've never really paid that much attention to fired cases. They all go into the tumbler together (mine and whatever other people have left on the range) and they all come out shiny like new. The fact that N340 is $32.84/lb and Win 231 is $19.88/lb at MidSouth is enough to keep me away from the N340. If you're really stuck on clean and pretty fired cases, find out what Federal uses in their small-primer 45 ACP. Luckily that stuff looks like a mirror on the inside, makes it easy to pick it out from the large-primer cases! |
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June 9, 2016, 01:35 PM | #23 |
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I've found that Bullseye burns very clean with plated/jacketed/coated in .45 auto. I think it's 'dirty' reputation came from use with lead bullets.
Meters perfectly for me in my rotary measure. Works with the lightest loads all the way up to full power 230 loads. It's all I use now. Clays and N310 are probably the cleanest shooting powder out there, both are superb target powders, but they are not a good choice for full power 230 ammo. VV N320 might be the powder you're looking for, but I've never found it locally, so I've never tried it. Scorched cases? Probably just soot from low temps/low pressure. |
June 9, 2016, 01:40 PM | #24 |
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Dirty Powder
IMO powders are not "dirty" or "clean". No powder is always dirty or always clean. It is a fallacy to think such exists.
Powder burning cleanliness is not determined by the POWDER. It is determined by the LOAD you are using for that powder, and whether, or not, you are in the intended pressure range for that powder. If you use too slow a powder you can see unburnt particles down the barrel after you shoot. If you want the cleanest possible powder burn: use a fast powder at maximum load. Consulting Alliant 45 Auto data (not +P) that would be this: 230-gr FMJ BE-86 Fed. 150 Federal 1.265 7.1 943 If that is not clean and fast enough for you, good luck with the farting unicorn. I have not used BE-86 yet, but always found Bullseye to burn cleanly, but then I do NOT shot cast lead bullets, ever. If you think Bullseye is dirty and you are shooting lead, try plated. I bet they run a LOT "cleaner". That means the "dirty" was lead residue.
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June 9, 2016, 01:48 PM | #25 | |
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
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