Stupid Load for 9mm?

Coolray · January 25, 2001, 10:53 AM

I went shooting with a few friends saturday (10) and everybody brings 3-5 guns an we share and have a great day. that Springfield M1A1 was a blast.

One guy offered me some of his 9MM rounds to try out,I asked him the specs, he said 10.5 gr Blue Dot 115gr LRN 1478fps I thought this was to hot for my gun and declined to shoot his ammo, When he shot it, it sounded HUGE.
I questioned him because he told me that he has to "tamp" the powder in to seat the bullet. I commented that it was to much and he told me this was a load from an old book and was O.K. and that Powder companies reduce the loads in thier manuals for Liability reasons.

I looked up in my Speer#13 it shows max at 8.5 1258fps with Blue Dot. I have never used BD and I don't think I'd load his load,But is this an old Load or is he full of crap?

My first inclination is that he is just one round away from disaster. IMHO.

Johnny Guest · January 25, 2001, 01:27 PM

---on your part, Coolray. What kind of pistol was this rocket surgeon using to shoot his blue pills? Whatever it is (WAS,) I fear it will not last long! We are discussing 9x19mm (Luger) cartridges, aren't we?

I am not at home and have no references at hand but the other guy's load sounds suicidally hot. Did you by chance happen to examine any of his empty cases?

I can understand pressing the limits A LITTLE, but if the guy wants a 9x23 or a .357 SiG, why not go GET one?

Best regards,
Johnny
MOLON LABE!

E. BeauBeaux · January 25, 2001, 02:41 PM

I do not agree with his load. It's an accident looking for a place to happen...if he is telling the truth. I'm not convinced you can get 10.5gr in a 9mm case and seat a bullet to standard OAL for said bullet. Will give it a try tonight just to see.

Quantrill · January 25, 2001, 03:30 PM

Just looked up the 9mm loads in the Alliant Handbook (1996) and the most BD listed is 8.3 with a 95gr. Heavier bullets are marginally less. Sounds like trouble to me. Quantrill

jsn · January 25, 2001, 03:48 PM

Coolray your friend must have remembered the load data incorrectly,10.5 gr of bluedot fills the 9mm case to the top with a small heap above the rim( I just did it)I just loaded the last of my 9mm bullets so I didn't try to seat one.I don't think you could compress the powder enough to get even Max OAL,even Powder as coarse a bluedot should not compress that much.IF you could seat a bullet long I doubt it would fit in the mag much less feed through the gun. If he found some way to make this load work(I don't see how) you did the right thing by not shooting any of it,personally I won't shoot ANYONE'S reloads untill I have loaded with them and see what kind of habits they have,even then I generaly don't.

John

E. BeauBeaux · January 25, 2001, 05:29 PM

JSN you saved me the trouble of trying it. I didn't think it was possible as I have loaded alot of 9's with alot of different powders. Thanks for giving it a try, now when I get off work I can hit the recliner.

Halo · January 25, 2001, 06:22 PM

Quote:

I looked up in my Speer#13 it shows max at 8.5 1258fps with Blue Dot. I have never used BD and I don't think I'd load his load,But is this an old Load or is he full of crap?

Yes, and that load in the Speer #13 manual is for -jacketed- bullets to boot. Bare lead (like that guy was using) would be quite a bit less.

Coolray · January 25, 2001, 07:22 PM

Yes we are talking 9X19 Luger he shoots a S&W auto I'm not familiar with them he also uses 30 rd mags the fail to feed regularly. His load Data is written on the top of the box he keeps the ammo in. I knew he and his buddys are a little odd in some areas so when I started to load myself I found a fella who has loaded for over 30 years to teach me. I mentioned these 9mm loads to him with the same response.....the guy is an Idiot.

Some people just don't noodle things through enough for me.

jsn · January 25, 2001, 07:42 PM

Curiosity got the better of me so,I pulled out my kinetic bullet puller and pulled one of the 115gr FMJ’s I had just loaded. measured on my digital scale 10.5 gr of blue dot dumped it in the case via a powder funel,had the same result full to rim with a small heap. I put my finger over the heap and rim and tapped it on the bench, it didn’t settle much at all and I lost about .1gr doing this (stuck to my finger).You have to hold the bullet ALL the way into the die it won’t sit on top the powder very well,I did seat it to 1.120(my normal OAL for this bullet)with no further problems,I didn’t think the powder would compress this much but it WILL.I ended up with about 10.4gr in the finished round and that's atleast 1.9 gr more than any book Max I can find for FMJ not lead.I don’t think I'll shoot this round,I kinda like my hands just the way they are and this load just might change the current configuration.

John

Swamp Yankee · January 25, 2001, 08:27 PM

Coolray, I think you made a very wise decision.
Checked my oldest manual, Lyman 46, about 15 to 20 years old. It lists a max load at 8.7 gr Blue Dot with Hornady 115 gr HP as a compressed charge (1211 FPS). Same book lists max. load with a lead 115 gr. FP at 8.4 gr. Blue Dot max.(1339 FPS)
Sierra 2nd edition from the same time frame has no loads for 9mm using Blue Dot as a powder.
Take Care

Hal · January 25, 2001, 09:04 PM

Sounds like your buddy is trying to build his own .357Sig. That load of 10.5 gr of BD is about 10% under max listed on Alliants' website for the .357 sig. and .02gr over a .38 Super auto +p.

Halo · January 25, 2001, 10:32 PM

alliantpowder.com lists a maximum charge of 8.0gr BlueDot for a 115gr (FMJ even, not lead). I think we can all conclude that the guy is asking for trouble...give him a wide berth if you are at the range with him again

Archie · January 26, 2001, 01:35 AM

Couple years ago I was talking with an IPSC "unlimited" shooter. He had one of those "heavy slide" guns, complete with red dot type scope and cocking handle. It was in 9x19 caliber.

He did mention he used small rifle primers. Because pistol primers deformed too much. More than I wanted to know.

I do shoot some pretty hot loads, for particular purposes, not plinking. I do so with great care and attention to load manuals and such.

There are loonies out there. Some of them talk like regular folks.

muzzletalk · January 26, 2001, 02:33 AM

I wouldn't be standing next to him the next time or any time he wants to shoot these loads. I have a couple of books that do have compresed loads in them but nothing like this.

Be real and stay safe...

PKN · January 26, 2001, 09:39 AM

...are pretty standard practice in IPSC. I run magnum pistol primers myself, behind a max charge of AA#2 with a long loaded bullet in 40. It works for me, but I don't recomend it for your everyday average plinker. 38 super has to be pushed past max loading manual loads to make major power factor. It's no big deal, it's done every day safely, but a lot of guns were blown up to get to this point. The key is to work up to the load, and to do everything the same way all the time. When your already past max, a pressure spike gets real ugly fast. It's not for the faint of heart, but your not automaticly gonna lose fingers either.

Just as a side note, 9x19 for major power factor was outlawed in 1990. Why? Becasue it was determined that there was no way to safely load it to the old major with out blowing up guns with alarming frequency. Seems there's not enough case capacity to keep the pressures at a somewhat resonable level.

January 25, 2001, 03:48 PM	#5
jsn Member Join Date: November 23, 2000 Posts: 26	NO way Coolray your friend must have remembered the load data incorrectly,10.5 gr of bluedot fills the 9mm case to the top with a small heap above the rim( I just did it)I just loaded the last of my 9mm bullets so I didn't try to seat one.I don't think you could compress the powder enough to get even Max OAL,even Powder as coarse a bluedot should not compress that much.IF you could seat a bullet long I doubt it would fit in the mag much less feed through the gun. If he found some way to make this load work(I don't see how) you did the right thing by not shooting any of it,personally I won't shoot ANYONE'S reloads untill I have loaded with them and see what kind of habits they have,even then I generaly don't. John

January 25, 2001, 07:42 PM	#9
jsn Member Join Date: November 23, 2000 Posts: 26	I LIED Curiosity got the better of me so,I pulled out my kinetic bullet puller and pulled one of the 115gr FMJ’s I had just loaded. measured on my digital scale 10.5 gr of blue dot dumped it in the case via a powder funel,had the same result full to rim with a small heap. I put my finger over the heap and rim and tapped it on the bench, it didn’t settle much at all and I lost about .1gr doing this (stuck to my finger).You have to hold the bullet ALL the way into the die it won’t sit on top the powder very well,I did seat it to 1.120(my normal OAL for this bullet)with no further problems,I didn’t think the powder would compress this much but it WILL.I ended up with about 10.4gr in the finished round and that's atleast 1.9 gr more than any book Max I can find for FMJ not lead.I don’t think I'll shoot this round,I kinda like my hands just the way they are and this load just might change the current configuration. John

January 26, 2001, 09:39 AM	#15
PKN Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2000 Location: VA Posts: 132	Smal Rifle Primers.... ...are pretty standard practice in IPSC. I run magnum pistol primers myself, behind a max charge of AA#2 with a long loaded bullet in 40. It works for me, but I don't recomend it for your everyday average plinker. 38 super has to be pushed past max loading manual loads to make major power factor. It's no big deal, it's done every day safely, but a lot of guns were blown up to get to this point. The key is to work up to the load, and to do everything the same way all the time. When your already past max, a pressure spike gets real ugly fast. It's not for the faint of heart, but your not automaticly gonna lose fingers either. Just as a side note, 9x19 for major power factor was outlawed in 1990. Why? Becasue it was determined that there was no way to safely load it to the old major with out blowing up guns with alarming frequency. Seems there's not enough case capacity to keep the pressures at a somewhat resonable level.

January 25, 2001, 10:53 AM	#1
Coolray Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2000 Location: Spokane ,wa Posts: 290	I went shooting with a few friends saturday (10) and everybody brings 3-5 guns an we share and have a great day. that Springfield M1A1 was a blast. One guy offered me some of his 9MM rounds to try out,I asked him the specs, he said 10.5 gr Blue Dot 115gr LRN 1478fps I thought this was to hot for my gun and declined to shoot his ammo, When he shot it, it sounded HUGE. I questioned him because he told me that he has to "tamp" the powder in to seat the bullet. I commented that it was to much and he told me this was a load from an old book and was O.K. and that Powder companies reduce the loads in thier manuals for Liability reasons. I looked up in my Speer#13 it shows max at 8.5 1258fps with Blue Dot. I have never used BD and I don't think I'd load his load,But is this an old Load or is he full of crap? My first inclination is that he is just one round away from disaster. IMHO. __________________ Hello My name is Coolray.............And I'm an Addict

January 25, 2001, 01:27 PM	#2
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	GOOD CALL! ---on your part, Coolray. What kind of pistol was this rocket surgeon using to shoot his blue pills? Whatever it is (WAS,) I fear it will not last long! We are discussing 9x19mm (Luger) cartridges, aren't we? I am not at home and have no references at hand but the other guy's load sounds suicidally hot. Did you by chance happen to examine any of his empty cases? I can understand pressing the limits A LITTLE, but if the guy wants a 9x23 or a .357 SiG, why not go GET one? Best regards, Johnny MOLON LABE!

January 25, 2001, 02:41 PM	#3
E. BeauBeaux Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2000 Location: MS, CSA Posts: 377	I do not agree with his load. It's an accident looking for a place to happen...if he is telling the truth. I'm not convinced you can get 10.5gr in a 9mm case and seat a bullet to standard OAL for said bullet. Will give it a try tonight just to see.

January 25, 2001, 03:30 PM	#4
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	Just looked up the 9mm loads in the Alliant Handbook (1996) and the most BD listed is 8.3 with a 95gr. Heavier bullets are marginally less. Sounds like trouble to me. Quantrill

January 25, 2001, 05:29 PM	#6
E. BeauBeaux Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2000 Location: MS, CSA Posts: 377	JSN you saved me the trouble of trying it. I didn't think it was possible as I have loaded alot of 9's with alot of different powders. Thanks for giving it a try, now when I get off work I can hit the recliner.

January 25, 2001, 07:22 PM	#8
Coolray Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2000 Location: Spokane ,wa Posts: 290	Yes we are talking 9X19 Luger he shoots a S&W auto I'm not familiar with them he also uses 30 rd mags the fail to feed regularly. His load Data is written on the top of the box he keeps the ammo in. I knew he and his buddys are a little odd in some areas so when I started to load myself I found a fella who has loaded for over 30 years to teach me. I mentioned these 9mm loads to him with the same response.....the guy is an Idiot. Some people just don't noodle things through enough for me.

January 25, 2001, 08:27 PM	#10
Swamp Yankee Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2000 Location: Northeastern Ct. Posts: 1,019	Coolray, I think you made a very wise decision. Checked my oldest manual, Lyman 46, about 15 to 20 years old. It lists a max load at 8.7 gr Blue Dot with Hornady 115 gr HP as a compressed charge (1211 FPS). Same book lists max. load with a lead 115 gr. FP at 8.4 gr. Blue Dot max.(1339 FPS) Sierra 2nd edition from the same time frame has no loads for 9mm using Blue Dot as a powder. Take Care

January 25, 2001, 09:04 PM	#11
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	Sounds like your buddy is trying to build his own .357Sig. That load of 10.5 gr of BD is about 10% under max listed on Alliants' website for the .357 sig. and .02gr over a .38 Super auto +p.

January 25, 2001, 10:32 PM	#12
Halo Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 408	alliantpowder.com lists a maximum charge of 8.0gr BlueDot for a 115gr (FMJ even, not lead). I think we can all conclude that the guy is asking for trouble...give him a wide berth if you are at the range with him again

January 26, 2001, 01:35 AM	#13
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	Couple years ago I was talking with an IPSC "unlimited" shooter. He had one of those "heavy slide" guns, complete with red dot type scope and cocking handle. It was in 9x19 caliber. He did mention he used small rifle primers. Because pistol primers deformed too much. More than I wanted to know. I do shoot some pretty hot loads, for particular purposes, not plinking. I do so with great care and attention to load manuals and such. There are loonies out there. Some of them talk like regular folks. __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

January 26, 2001, 02:33 AM	#14
muzzletalk Member Join Date: January 3, 2001 Posts: 85	I wouldn't be standing next to him the next time or any time he wants to shoot these loads. I have a couple of books that do have compresed loads in them but nothing like this. Be real and stay safe...