Trying to date an 1858 Remington New Model Army

hurlburt · July 2, 2015, 09:45 PM

I'm trying to date this NMA for my dad. It's serial is P 89XX, it has a couple of W's on the cylinder close to the carry notches, a J on the frame above the hammer screw and another J on each side of the frame in front of where the cylinder lines up with the barrel and a P on the brass trigger guard near the front.

I know you used to be able to write somewhere and find out where Springfield rifles were issued to, I recall seeing write ups for them at gun shows where it told what unit the owner was assigned, etc. Pretty cool, anyone know of something like this for Rem's?

Thanks in advance!

Bishop Creek · July 2, 2015, 09:56 PM

Don't go by the serial number, look for numbers or letters stamped on it like "XIII" or "BD" for example. Those are the date codes:

Fingers McGee · July 2, 2015, 10:36 PM

Is this a reproduction Remington or an original one? If original, you might try here:

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/foru...wforum.php?f=2

(Added 7-3-15 11:06 am) Or, just call on Hawg.

Hawg · July 3, 2015, 03:45 AM

It was born in Jan. of 1863. The P is not part of the serial number, it's a sub inspectors mark like the J'sand W's.

hurlburt · July 3, 2015, 05:50 PM

Thank you guys SO much for the response! Really cool knowing when it was made.

Odd question, I heard that sometimes when Confederates captured Union items, they'd remove any U.S. type markings... makes perfect sense to me. Does this scrape at the bottom look like such a removed marking to anyone? Or maybe it's some type of carry related wear.

Buzzcook · July 3, 2015, 07:25 PM

While its possible some rebels removed US marking from captured gun, I don't thing that's the case with the grip of your 1858.
I don't recall any official markings where your grip is chipped.

Bishop Creek · July 3, 2015, 08:32 PM

Well, Fingers and Hawg showed me up. I thought it was an Italian pistol. Call me embarrassed.

RJay · July 3, 2015, 08:40 PM

In all my reading, I have never read of Confederates setting around the campfires at night removing U.S. markings. They had enough things to do such as forage for food and shelter. I could be wrong, wasn't there and perhaps some where in a letter or diary some one noted that they ( for spite ) had removed those Yankee markings.

Hawg · July 3, 2015, 10:24 PM

What was there was the final inspectors cartouche. As far as removing markings, some may have done it but not in any great numbers.

Hawg · July 3, 2015, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Well, Fingers and Hawg showed me up. I thought it was an Italian pistol. Call me embarrassed.

Hi embarrassed.

Seriously tho, no need to be. If you don't know, you don't know. Nothing wrong with that. The P's, J's and W's were the giveaway. Repops don't have sub inspectors marks.

hurlburt · July 4, 2015, 12:32 AM

Guess I should've specified that it's an original, my mistake and sorry for the confusion.

Yeah, if it had been common for a U.S. to have been stamped on the grip there, I could see it. Though, if I had captured a serviceable Iraqi Beretta P92, exact in every fashion to our issued weapon save a picture of Sadaam on the grip, I probably would scrape his face off before i carried it. But that's just me and the story makes sense in that light.

Again, thanks for the interest. I wrote an email to Remington to see if they kept historical records as to who it had been issued to and when, where or what units they served in. Will post any results to this thread, either way.

I tried registering to the remington society, unsuccessfully. they block hotmail and the moderators say "PLEASE do not hesitate to click the service desk on the home page and contact me." unfortunately, there's no such thing as a "service desk" connected to that forum and no way to "contact" this moderator unless you're registered, which I cannot do by default. PAINFULLY obnoxious.

Hawg · July 4, 2015, 02:00 AM

Quote:

I wrote an email to Remington to see if they kept historical records as to who it had been issued to and when, where or what units they served in. Will post any results to this thread, either way.

With very few exceptions there's no such records and none as to an individual. AFAIK Remington kept no such records. You might come up with a serial number batch in quartermaster records but good luck on that.

July 2, 2015, 09:45 PM	#1
hurlburt Junior Member Join Date: March 30, 2013 Posts: 5	Trying to date an 1858 Remington New Model Army I'm trying to date this NMA for my dad. It's serial is P 89XX, it has a couple of W's on the cylinder close to the carry notches, a J on the frame above the hammer screw and another J on each side of the frame in front of where the cylinder lines up with the barrel and a P on the brass trigger guard near the front. I know you used to be able to write somewhere and find out where Springfield rifles were issued to, I recall seeing write ups for them at gun shows where it told what unit the owner was assigned, etc. Pretty cool, anyone know of something like this for Rem's? Thanks in advance!

July 2, 2015, 10:36 PM	#3
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Is this a reproduction Remington or an original one? If original, you might try here: http://www.remingtonsociety.com/foru...wforum.php?f=2 (Added 7-3-15 11:06 am) Or, just call on Hawg. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce Last edited by Fingers McGee; July 3, 2015 at 11:06 AM.

July 3, 2015, 05:50 PM	#5
hurlburt Junior Member Join Date: March 30, 2013 Posts: 5	58 NMA Thank you guys SO much for the response! Really cool knowing when it was made. Odd question, I heard that sometimes when Confederates captured Union items, they'd remove any U.S. type markings... makes perfect sense to me. Does this scrape at the bottom look like such a removed marking to anyone? Or maybe it's some type of carry related wear.

July 3, 2015, 08:40 PM	#8
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	In all my reading, I have never read of Confederates setting around the campfires at night removing U.S. markings. They had enough things to do such as forage for food and shelter. I could be wrong, wasn't there and perhaps some where in a letter or diary some one noted that they ( for spite ) had removed those Yankee markings. __________________ Ron James

July 2, 2015, 09:56 PM	#2
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	Don't go by the serial number, look for numbers or letters stamped on it like "XIII" or "BD" for example. Those are the date codes:

July 3, 2015, 03:45 AM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	It was born in Jan. of 1863. The P is not part of the serial number, it's a sub inspectors mark like the J'sand W's.

July 3, 2015, 07:25 PM	#6
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	While its possible some rebels removed US marking from captured gun, I don't thing that's the case with the grip of your 1858. I don't recall any official markings where your grip is chipped.

July 3, 2015, 08:32 PM	#7
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	Well, Fingers and Hawg showed me up. I thought it was an Italian pistol. Call me embarrassed.

July 3, 2015, 10:24 PM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	What was there was the final inspectors cartouche. As far as removing markings, some may have done it but not in any great numbers.

July 4, 2015, 12:32 AM	#11
hurlburt Junior Member Join Date: March 30, 2013 Posts: 5	Guess I should've specified that it's an original, my mistake and sorry for the confusion. Yeah, if it had been common for a U.S. to have been stamped on the grip there, I could see it. Though, if I had captured a serviceable Iraqi Beretta P92, exact in every fashion to our issued weapon save a picture of Sadaam on the grip, I probably would scrape his face off before i carried it. But that's just me and the story makes sense in that light. Again, thanks for the interest. I wrote an email to Remington to see if they kept historical records as to who it had been issued to and when, where or what units they served in. Will post any results to this thread, either way. I tried registering to the remington society, unsuccessfully. they block hotmail and the moderators say "PLEASE do not hesitate to click the service desk on the home page and contact me." unfortunately, there's no such thing as a "service desk" connected to that forum and no way to "contact" this moderator unless you're registered, which I cannot do by default. PAINFULLY obnoxious.