fiction writer asks: popular '70s revolver? - Page 3

Story · April 27, 2011, 08:58 PM

The chosen gun will sit ignored in my character's drawer for some years till it gets stolen and used.

Dylan
If the revolver was purchased earlier, note the change in price - $40 in 1960 (mail order was possible, right to your door, until the Gun Control Act of 1968 stopped that) with boxes of 25 rounds only $1.85.

http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/ENFIELD%2...2072%20dpi.jpg

By comparison, one of the cheap WWII surplus .38 Enfields was only $17
http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/ENFIELD%2...0150%20DPI.jpg

See
http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/ENFIELD%2...ELD%20SNUB.htm

Amin Parker · April 28, 2011, 03:22 AM

Colt Detective Special or Smith and Wesson Chiefs Special.

They are both snub nosed revolvers which are very popular. Also, since he is not a gun guy, one of the above would have been recommended by a gun shop.

mrbro · April 28, 2011, 06:56 AM

Quote:

So what were the best sellin dirt cheap guns of the 60's?

Iver Johnson top-break .32s and .38s.

shafter · April 28, 2011, 08:53 AM

Smith and Wesson 36 snub or Model 10.

You could just say he had a snubnose revolver or something. Better to be vague than to be specific and get it wrong.

Jeff45 · April 28, 2011, 03:47 PM

The S&W model 19 was extremely popular in the late 60's and 70's. It is chambered for .357 and can obviously shoot .38's. The 2 1/2" barrel model was carried by numerous law enforcement personal as a reliable concealed revolver or back up gun.

Glenn Dee · April 28, 2011, 04:09 PM

Good luck on your new book.

As it happens I was in NYC in the 70's. And involved in the local gun culture. And as it happens I was a police officer then. May I make a suggestion?

If the character had a gun tucked away in a drawer... just in case. He may have gotten himself a target permit. Or he may have an influential friend who was able to get him a carry permit. Or he may have been a witness in a case that left him needing protection, and was given a carry permit. Or he may have been a volunteer at the SPCC (society for the prevention of cruelty to children) and been given a carry permit. Or he may have found a corrupt detective in his Pct and gotten a permit that way. Or a friend or relative was a detective in the local Pct. and got him the permit to carry. Or maybe he had a relative or friend who owned a check cashing business,... and gotten a permit that way. Actually it was a whole lot easier to get a carry permit in the 70's than it is today. Oh yeah... if he had a part time job as a night watchman, or bouncer, or some kind of security he could have gotten a watch guard license... and the pistol permit that comes with it.

In the 1970's I'd have to say the most popular weapon by far was the S&W chief special. Second being the Colt detective special. With the S&W model 10 2" coming in third. Contrary to popular belief... Civilians with permits were NOT limited to revolvers. The popular autoloaders of the day was the Walther PPK/s, the Browning high power, and the Colt 1911, Colt, and Browning .25's Pretty much in that order.

Stainless guns were rare in NY in those days, Rugers were almost unheard of, .357's were for the most part considered overkill to the point that some police departments forbade officers from even owning them.

Glenn

MAN! I feel old.

dylanlandis · April 28, 2011, 10:15 PM

...and also the excellent advice to be vague. (Though I like to know all the details of what I'm being vague about, which is why this thread has been so helpful.) Knowing what a gun shop would have recommended is very useful. And thanks, Glenn Dee, for listing all those possibilities.
Terrific forum.

**44 AMP** · April 28, 2011, 10:46 PM

lots of good, valid recommendations. Having no idea of your charactrer's morals, know that a number of otherwise law abiding citizens of the metro area had a pistol of some kind, for emergencies, without a legal permit.

These guns were not carried, nor practiced with, they just lived in desk, dresser and nightstand drawers, often for decades, loaded, just in case. Never talked about, or shown off, just kept, usually with less than a full box of ammo in the house. Sometimes with only the rounds in the gun.

Cops finding you with an unlicensed pistol meant arrest and all the court hassles that went with it, even if you did escape jail time. But lots of people risked it then, and still do. And, of course, all these guns were bought on the black market. No gunshop, anywhere in NY state would sell you a handgun without a permit. And in 1970, permits were required just for ownership, everywhere in NY state. And, the permit was not valid in NYC, unless issued in NYC. A permit issued in Buffalo or Albany or Saratoga was valid anywhere in the state, EXCEPT NYC!

And in 1970, the state permit required 4 photographs, 5 sets of fingerprints, 3 character references, and was only valid after being signed by a judge (totally at their discretion), and the gun(s) were listed on the permit, by make, caliber, barrel length, and serial #. And only those guns listed on the permit were legal to own. While I didn't live in NYC in those days, I did live in NY state, and it was general knowledge that the NYC permits were more difficult to get than the state permit, due to the arbitrary decisions of the local authorities (judges).

gyvel · April 29, 2011, 12:43 AM

Quote:

I'd say a 2 in Colt Det.

This is the logical choice. Colt was a familiar brand name, the Detective Special was relatively small, and would appeal to this sort of "non gun" guy.

Winchester_73 · April 29, 2011, 06:13 AM

Quote:

I'm thinking this guy is carrying a Colt Police Positive Special chambered in 30-20 that was made in the mid 1920's and handed down through the family. It's got a large chip out of one of the old hard rubber grips and the bluing is worn through on the hard edges of the gun.

Unfortuantely that gun never existed.

Webleymkv · April 29, 2011, 11:30 AM

Let's see, an inexpensive revolver that has been sitting in a drawer for years (possibly decades) as of the 1970's. A S&W Victory Model (Pre-M10 made for the military during WWII) or a S&W/Colt M1917 would both fit the bill as they were fairly common and inexpensive as surplus many moons ago.

Another route you could go would be for a S&W M10, S&W M15, Colt Police Positive Special, or Colt Official Police as these were all fairly popular police revolvers that could probably be found easily and cheaply on the used market. If it makes any difference, I believe that the S&W M10 was the standard-issue revolver of the NYPD in that time period and their service loading was plain old standard pressure 158grn LRN as the NYPD was not allowed to carry hollowpoints until the 1990's.

glenncal1 · April 29, 2011, 01:05 PM

Dylan-what was your first book? Has it been published?

James K · April 29, 2011, 07:20 PM

There is no such cartridge as the ".30-20."

Jim

**44 AMP** · April 29, 2011, 07:23 PM

But there was, and still is a .32-20 aka .32-20 WCF.

Not a common handgun round, but there were a few guns chambered for it. For many years there were two different loadings of factory ammo, the "Hi-Speed" was intended for rifles.

dylanlandis · April 29, 2011, 08:52 PM

glenncal1, first book (of fiction) is Normal People Don't Live Like This (Persea Books, 2009). No guns. But a lot of research that doesn't actually show on the page.
44 AMP, great info on permits--thanks.

Glenn Dee · April 30, 2011, 08:44 AM

Hey fella's..
The 70's wasnt that long ago.... was it?
lol

Again if were talking about the 70's... If it was a revolver. It was a S&W or a colt. Or it was a saturday night special.

1972 S&W chief special. $136.00
Colt detective special $209.00
S&W Model 10 HB $98.00 with the police discount.
Colt Official Police $165. with a police discount.

Jeff #111 · May 1, 2011, 12:34 PM

I say make it a WWII surplus revolver. Either a Colt Commando or a S&W Victory Model. Both are 38 Specials with 4" barrels and many had parkarized finishes. I've been told that there was a time in the Fifties and early sixties when those models were plentiful and cheap.

Willbgone · May 27, 2011, 10:34 PM

Stick with the Model 10. It is perfect for what you're looking for.

notamisfit6 · May 27, 2011, 10:36 PM

H&R .32 if it's a cheap gun.

Eghad · May 27, 2011, 10:40 PM

My Dad had a Colt Detective Special.

**Mike Irwin** · May 28, 2011, 09:29 AM

"the "Hi-Speed" was intended for rifles."

Specifically, the Hi Speed loading was intended for use in the Winchester Model 1892 and later model rifles.

The boxes were printed with nice big warnings that the cartridges were NOT to be used in Model 1873s. But people back then didn't bother to read much, either, so a lot of 1873s lost their side plates.

warpig602 · May 28, 2011, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Your character doesn't sound like much of a gun guy, and neither do you,

Probably because SHE is not a gun GUY. Google is your friend.

Ozzieman · May 28, 2011, 11:46 AM

Charter arms bulldog in 44 special.
Well known in NY at the time from Son of Sam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_Arms_Bulldog

Other than that, for the time Smith & Wesson Model 19 round but with a 2 1/2 inch barrel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_19

fdreano · May 30, 2011, 07:51 AM

When I got out of the Army in 1974 and returned stateside I immediately purchased an S&W Model 19 and had it for many years....although the gun shop owner was pushing hard for me to buy an old pretty much "shot out" 1911 automatic. Good luck with the book; I tried writing (still screwing around with it) an adventure novel a couple years back and have a whole new respect for authors....it really is work !!

Rifleman 173 · May 30, 2011, 08:02 AM

I still own a Colt Gold Cup National Match .45 caliber pistol I used and brought home from Viet Nam in December 1970. A great gun even to this day. Extremely accurate and it shoots a big bore bullet too.

April 27, 2011, 08:58 PM	#51
Story Junior Member Join Date: May 21, 2005 Posts: 13	The chosen gun will sit ignored in my character's drawer for some years till it gets stolen and used. Dylan If the revolver was purchased earlier, note the change in price - $40 in 1960 (mail order was possible, right to your door, until the Gun Control Act of 1968 stopped that) with boxes of 25 rounds only $1.85. http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/ENFIELD%2...2072%20dpi.jpg By comparison, one of the cheap WWII surplus .38 Enfields was only $17 http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/ENFIELD%2...0150%20DPI.jpg See http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/ENFIELD%2...ELD%20SNUB.htm Last edited by Story; April 27, 2011 at 09:04 PM.

April 28, 2011, 03:22 AM	#52
Amin Parker Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2010 Posts: 1,118	Colt Detective Special or Smith and Wesson Chiefs Special. They are both snub nosed revolvers which are very popular. Also, since he is not a gun guy, one of the above would have been recommended by a gun shop. __________________ Every shooter should know what it feels like to hit a Bowling Pin in the sweet spot and see that sucker fly. Consider a CZ pistol before you decide.

April 28, 2011, 10:15 PM	#57
dylanlandis Junior Member Join Date: April 26, 2011 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 4	Appreciate the expertise ...and also the excellent advice to be vague. (Though I like to know all the details of what I'm being vague about, which is why this thread has been so helpful.) Knowing what a gun shop would have recommended is very useful. And thanks, Glenn Dee, for listing all those possibilities. Terrific forum.

April 28, 2011, 10:46 PM	#58
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,791	lots of good, valid recommendations. Having no idea of your charactrer's morals, know that a number of otherwise law abiding citizens of the metro area had a pistol of some kind, for emergencies, without a legal permit. These guns were not carried, nor practiced with, they just lived in desk, dresser and nightstand drawers, often for decades, loaded, just in case. Never talked about, or shown off, just kept, usually with less than a full box of ammo in the house. Sometimes with only the rounds in the gun. Cops finding you with an unlicensed pistol meant arrest and all the court hassles that went with it, even if you did escape jail time. But lots of people risked it then, and still do. And, of course, all these guns were bought on the black market. No gunshop, anywhere in NY state would sell you a handgun without a permit. And in 1970, permits were required just for ownership, everywhere in NY state. And, the permit was not valid in NYC, unless issued in NYC. A permit issued in Buffalo or Albany or Saratoga was valid anywhere in the state, EXCEPT NYC! And in 1970, the state permit required 4 photographs, 5 sets of fingerprints, 3 character references, and was only valid after being signed by a judge (totally at their discretion), and the gun(s) were listed on the permit, by make, caliber, barrel length, and serial #. And only those guns listed on the permit were legal to own. While I didn't live in NYC in those days, I did live in NY state, and it was general knowledge that the NYC permits were more difficult to get than the state permit, due to the arbitrary decisions of the local authorities (judges). __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 29, 2011, 01:05 PM	#62
glenncal1 Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2009 Location: Denver area Posts: 504	Dylan-what was your first book? Has it been published? __________________ Jim Many K and N Frames

April 28, 2011, 08:53 AM	#54
shafter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2009 Posts: 1,624	Smith and Wesson 36 snub or Model 10. You could just say he had a snubnose revolver or something. Better to be vague than to be specific and get it wrong.

April 28, 2011, 03:47 PM	#55
Jeff45 Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Posts: 29	The S&W model 19 was extremely popular in the late 60's and 70's. It is chambered for .357 and can obviously shoot .38's. The 2 1/2" barrel model was carried by numerous law enforcement personal as a reliable concealed revolver or back up gun.

April 28, 2011, 04:09 PM	#56
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	Good luck on your new book. As it happens I was in NYC in the 70's. And involved in the local gun culture. And as it happens I was a police officer then. May I make a suggestion? If the character had a gun tucked away in a drawer... just in case. He may have gotten himself a target permit. Or he may have an influential friend who was able to get him a carry permit. Or he may have been a witness in a case that left him needing protection, and was given a carry permit. Or he may have been a volunteer at the SPCC (society for the prevention of cruelty to children) and been given a carry permit. Or he may have found a corrupt detective in his Pct and gotten a permit that way. Or a friend or relative was a detective in the local Pct. and got him the permit to carry. Or maybe he had a relative or friend who owned a check cashing business,... and gotten a permit that way. Actually it was a whole lot easier to get a carry permit in the 70's than it is today. Oh yeah... if he had a part time job as a night watchman, or bouncer, or some kind of security he could have gotten a watch guard license... and the pistol permit that comes with it. In the 1970's I'd have to say the most popular weapon by far was the S&W chief special. Second being the Colt detective special. With the S&W model 10 2" coming in third. Contrary to popular belief... Civilians with permits were NOT limited to revolvers. The popular autoloaders of the day was the Walther PPK/s, the Browning high power, and the Colt 1911, Colt, and Browning .25's Pretty much in that order. Stainless guns were rare in NY in those days, Rugers were almost unheard of, .357's were for the most part considered overkill to the point that some police departments forbade officers from even owning them. Glenn MAN! I feel old.

April 29, 2011, 11:30 AM	#61
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	Let's see, an inexpensive revolver that has been sitting in a drawer for years (possibly decades) as of the 1970's. A S&W Victory Model (Pre-M10 made for the military during WWII) or a S&W/Colt M1917 would both fit the bill as they were fairly common and inexpensive as surplus many moons ago. Another route you could go would be for a S&W M10, S&W M15, Colt Police Positive Special, or Colt Official Police as these were all fairly popular police revolvers that could probably be found easily and cheaply on the used market. If it makes any difference, I believe that the S&W M10 was the standard-issue revolver of the NYPD in that time period and their service loading was plain old standard pressure 158grn LRN as the NYPD was not allowed to carry hollowpoints until the 1990's.

April 29, 2011, 07:20 PM	#63
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There is no such cartridge as the ".30-20." Jim

April 29, 2011, 07:23 PM	#64
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,791	No .30-20 But there was, and still is a .32-20 aka .32-20 WCF. Not a common handgun round, but there were a few guns chambered for it. For many years there were two different loadings of factory ammo, the "Hi-Speed" was intended for rifles. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 29, 2011, 08:52 PM	#65
dylanlandis Junior Member Join Date: April 26, 2011 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 4	glenncal1, first book (of fiction) is Normal People Don't Live Like This (Persea Books, 2009). No guns. But a lot of research that doesn't actually show on the page. 44 AMP, great info on permits--thanks.

April 30, 2011, 08:44 AM	#66
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	Hey fella's.. The 70's wasnt that long ago.... was it? lol Again if were talking about the 70's... If it was a revolver. It was a S&W or a colt. Or it was a saturday night special. 1972 S&W chief special. $136.00 Colt detective special $209.00 S&W Model 10 HB $98.00 with the police discount. Colt Official Police $165. with a police discount.

May 1, 2011, 12:34 PM	#67
Jeff #111 Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2001 Location: Idaho Posts: 1,072	I say make it a WWII surplus revolver. Either a Colt Commando or a S&W Victory Model. Both are 38 Specials with 4" barrels and many had parkarized finishes. I've been told that there was a time in the Fifties and early sixties when those models were plentiful and cheap.

May 27, 2011, 10:34 PM	#68
Willbgone Junior Member Join Date: May 27, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 2	Model 10 Stick with the Model 10. It is perfect for what you're looking for.

May 27, 2011, 10:36 PM	#69
notamisfit6 Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2008 Posts: 108	H&R .32 if it's a cheap gun.

May 27, 2011, 10:40 PM	#70
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	My Dad had a Colt Detective Special. __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member

May 28, 2011, 09:29 AM	#71
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,379	"the "Hi-Speed" was intended for rifles." Specifically, the Hi Speed loading was intended for use in the Winchester Model 1892 and later model rifles. The boxes were printed with nice big warnings that the cartridges were NOT to be used in Model 1873s. But people back then didn't bother to read much, either, so a lot of 1873s lost their side plates. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

May 28, 2011, 11:46 AM	#73
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Charter arms bulldog in 44 special. Well known in NY at the time from Son of Sam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_Arms_Bulldog Other than that, for the time Smith & Wesson Model 19 round but with a 2 1/2 inch barrel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_19

May 30, 2011, 07:51 AM	#74
fdreano Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Posts: 174	When I got out of the Army in 1974 and returned stateside I immediately purchased an S&W Model 19 and had it for many years....although the gun shop owner was pushing hard for me to buy an old pretty much "shot out" 1911 automatic. Good luck with the book; I tried writing (still screwing around with it) an adventure novel a couple years back and have a whole new respect for authors....it really is work !!

May 30, 2011, 08:02 AM	#75
Rifleman 173 Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 589	I still own a Colt Gold Cup National Match .45 caliber pistol I used and brought home from Viet Nam in December 1970. A great gun even to this day. Extremely accurate and it shoots a big bore bullet too.

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