|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
March 20, 2013, 05:32 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 30, 2005
Posts: 541
|
Cattleman .45LC Taylor or Uberti?
Alright, so I traded in a Ruger .22 Single Six which I bought for stupid reasons and a 7/8's full 500 round box of Winchester HV .22's for 225 dollars off a used .45LC Single Action Cattleman. (Cost 200 bucks on top of the trade in.) It says A. Uberti - Italy on the under side of the barrel and Taylor & Co. on the top of the barrel. Apart from some minor scratching in the finish on the top of the barrel the revolver is in seemingly excellent condition (the Ruger was very worn and the previous owner didn't seem to care for it well).
Am I correct in assuming from what I've found online, that Uberti made the gun and Taylor & Co. just imported it to the US to some gun store that the previous owner bought it from? I'm not familiar with revolvers in general and have never actually heard of either companies until now. A few threads I've found say Uberti is well above average on quality when it comes to these cowboy guns, just not as good as Colt. How would people here rate Uberti? My gun seems to be the Single Action Cattleman 1873 Hombre NM shown here: http://www.uberti.com/firearms/singl...-cattleman.php http://www.uberti.com/firearms/image...m_matte_lg.jpg A few clarifications i'd like to know, what does NM stand for in the Uberti product description? Also, it looks like the 1873 model but on the left side of the frame just below the cylinder it says Pat. Sept. 19, 1871 Pat July 2, 1872. Were they just rounding up or was mine some older model not listed? I've also seen some descriptions that my gun is a replica of the Colt Peacemaker while others describe it as the Colt Army. Again, i'm not familiar with revolvers much and certainly not knowledgeable in the old west models produced during and soon after the civil war. Any clarification on my gun's origins and what it was made to represent or imitate would be appreciated. Any links to old american west firearms history would also not go amiss. Last edited by Glock 31; March 20, 2013 at 05:40 AM. |
March 20, 2013, 06:30 AM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 4, 2007
Posts: 861
|
your gun was made by uberti. your finish looks like their entry level model. nm means new model. i am not sure about all the differences between the nm and the old model but the old model had a screw to remove the pin in order to remove the cylinder. the nm just has a pin to pull to remove the cylinder. as for quality, i have 3 different models of the blued, case hardened uberti 45's. all are excellent with great fit and finish and very accurate even with the notch sights. i love mine.
__________________
Waltzes with woofs |
March 20, 2013, 07:58 AM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 28, 2008
Posts: 560
|
Taylor would be the importer.
Remember that it's a fine gun but it's no Ruger. Do NOT use the heavy Colt and Ruger only loads. They will scatter that thing. It should lead a nice long life running standard Colt loads. |
March 20, 2013, 08:02 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 25, 2010
Location: Coyote Creak, SW Texas
Posts: 597
|
Wow! I got to get me one of those electron microscope cameras
__________________
Twobit, Strive to live up to the opinion that your dog has of you. |
March 20, 2013, 08:51 AM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 2, 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,936
|
Hmmmmm. Uberti states the NM means New Model, works for me. The Army model normally is thought of having a 7 1/2 inch barrel, but on copies ( copy not clones ) I don't think the name Peacemaker, Army or what ever means a hill of beans, of course that is just my opinion.
__________________
Ron James |
March 20, 2013, 07:27 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 10, 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 2,985
|
As to Old Model and Pre-War frames, as far as Uberti is concerned, the Old Model has a base pin retaining screw inserted from the front of the frame, and a rounded ejector rod head.
The Pre War Model has the cross bolt base pin latch and crescent ejector rod head. Here is the base pin retaining screw on an Old Model: And the round ejector rod head: As for the Pre War, here is the crescent ejector rod head: And a Pre War Frame, the cross bolt latch visible just behind the head of the base pin: And, yeah, for you of sharp eyes, the ejector roda are on the same gun. I swapped then out after acquiring this revolver. Bob Wright Last edited by Bob Wright; March 20, 2013 at 07:35 PM. |
March 21, 2013, 09:59 PM | #7 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 30, 2005
Posts: 541
|
Ammo
Thanks for the replies guys.
I've only gotten to shoot 1 box of 50 through the cattleman so far. I used 250 gr. rnfp Black Hills Ammunition. Is this too powerful a load? Admittedly for owning a gun I don't know much about it's history or about ammunition velocities, loads, etc. I just know how much I like them, and how to safely handle them to include knowing not to carry or store the cattleman with a full 6 round loaded cylinder. Quote:
Last edited by Glock 31; March 21, 2013 at 10:23 PM. |
|
March 21, 2013, 10:13 PM | #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,247
|
Quote:
Also, Single Action Army technically refers to the 45 Colt models with the 7-1/2" barrel, but has come to have the same meaning and is applied to all the Colt Model P Single Action revolvers and lookalikes. Peacemaker was a later marketing name that Colt thought up.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services |
|
March 21, 2013, 10:17 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 30, 2005
Posts: 541
|
Thanks for clarification Scorch. It would be nice to own a peacemaker made and used back in the day but I'm sure they're either collectors pieces no one in their right minds would actually shoot, or they're too deteriorated to be useful anymore. Still, i'm happy with the clone, copy or lookalike that mine is. It's the prettiest gun I own and certainly has some power behind it.
And thank you to Bob Wright on the old/new model comparisons. |
March 22, 2013, 09:56 PM | #10 |
Member
Join Date: January 5, 2013
Posts: 18
|
I have the exact same gun. I had to file about 1/8 inch off the front sight to get it on the paper. The gun is fun to shoot. Its my first SA. I do reload and it seems like, the lighter the bullet and powder charge the more accurate it gets. I am using 185 grain swc with 5 grains of trail boss powder. I am not sure why the lighter loads make it more accurate. Maybe someone on here could shed some light on that.
|
March 24, 2013, 04:45 PM | #11 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 10, 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 2,985
|
Quote:
Bob Wright |
|
March 24, 2013, 06:59 PM | #12 |
Member Emeritus
Join Date: August 19, 2004
Posts: 7,133
|
Current Uberti clones in .45 Colt can handle any commercial .45 Colt load at STANDARD pressures.
Stay away from anything labeled +P, and avoid the hot CorBon & Buffalo Bore higher-pressure stuff. Denis |
March 24, 2013, 10:58 PM | #13 | |
Junior member
Join Date: February 23, 2012
Posts: 921
|
The "Old Model" frame also has the pinched sights. Which are a V-notch and narrow front blade and rather difficult to use. Unless, of course, it's a flat-top target model like Bob's. The New Model has a square rear notch and blade more like a 2nd generation Colt.
Quote:
|
|
March 25, 2013, 03:46 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 10, 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 2,985
|
I don't think Uberti uses the "pinched frame" rear sight. Their literature describes only the base pin latch and ejector rod heads as being the only differences in Uberti guns.
Bob Wright |
March 25, 2013, 03:50 PM | #15 |
Junior member
Join Date: February 23, 2012
Posts: 921
|
I've had three Uberti SAA's with the pinched frame sights. Two of them have the crosspin frame. So they 'may' all have the pinched sights.
|
March 25, 2013, 08:40 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 10, 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 2,985
|
Well, I've tried Uberti's web page and Cimarron's web page and can find no mention of pinched frame models. Uberti calls theirs Old Model and New Model, and Cimarron calls theirs Blackpowder and Pre War Models. Some photos show a knurled head base pin retaining screw, others a slotted head screw.
I've never seen a pinched frame, not that they don't exist. As pointed out mine was a Flat Top, so of course, no pinched frame. I'm finding that variations exist in Ubertis according to the importer. My three are two from Stoeger and one Cimarron. My only other one was from Iver Johnson, and that ca. 1975. Bob Wright |
March 25, 2013, 08:46 PM | #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 10, 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 2,985
|
This caught my eye on Taylor & Co.'s web site:
Quote:
Bob Wright |
|
March 25, 2013, 08:58 PM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 10, 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 2,985
|
Newfrontier45:
Of the three Ubertis you've had/have, what type safties did they have? My Stoeger Flat Top and my Cattleman (Iver Johnson) have the hammer block safety. My Uberti Stallion and Model P (Cimarron) have the "Swiss Safe" safety, utilizing the base pin as a hammer block. Incidentally, here is the original retaining screw on my Flat Top: Looked awful, to me, so replaced it with a slotted head screw. Bob Wright |
March 25, 2013, 11:54 PM | #19 |
Junior member
Join Date: February 23, 2012
Posts: 921
|
I've got an early USPFA made of Uberti parts (bought used in `04) with the setscrew basepin retention and Swiss style safety. I've got a Uberti Cattleman .32-20 (bought new in `06) that has the crosspin frame and Swiss style safety. I used to have a Uberti Bisley .44Spl (bought new in `08) that also had the crosspin frame and Swiss style safety.
Does your fixed sight "Pre War" above not have the V-notch rear sight and narrow little tapered front blade? I find these very difficult to use, even compared to percussion guns. I have to amend my earlier statement. The only Uberti's I've seen that didn't have the pinched frame sights are the Evil Roy models from Cimarron. There's a couple other competition oriented guns that I believe also have them. USFA strictly used the pinched sights on the blackpowder frame models and the nicely squared notch and blade on the smokeless frame models. |
March 26, 2013, 08:55 AM | #20 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 10, 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 2,985
|
Quote:
As I've said, I have never, to my knowledge, seen a pinched frame revolver, only photos dealing with that Colt model frame. All the single actions I have ever owned either had the late Colt SAA style sights, or had Flat Top frames or adjustable sights. I had a Colt New Service with the U-shaped rear and Vee type front sight. Had a hard time holding elevation and soon replaced that. This was not a pinched frame, however. Bob Wright |
|
March 26, 2013, 09:04 AM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 10, 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 2,985
|
Lest there be any misunderstanding, here is a comparison of a "pinched frame Colt" with the later style Vee shaped rear sight:
Well, couldn't get the photo to come in. I Googled "Pinch Frame Colts" and found a comparison of the top straps of Colts, one the rare "Pinched Frame Model" compared to the early blackpowder frame with Vee type rear sight. Note the in the pinched frame model, the rear sight is actually about 1/2" in front of the hammer. Incidentally, the Colt "Pinched Frame" is found only on civilian models numbered below serial number 200. Bob Wright Last edited by Bob Wright; March 26, 2013 at 09:14 AM. |
March 26, 2013, 10:08 AM | #22 |
Junior member
Join Date: February 23, 2012
Posts: 921
|
Well Bob, apparently the misunderstanding is mine. Somehow, in all my years of research and study, this little detail escaped me. I was under the impression that the V-notch 'was' the pinched frame.
Either way, the point remains that the blackpowder frame with the setscrew basepin retention, will typically have the V-notch sights. Whereas crosspin guns will usually have the square notch sights. Which, unless I'm suffering from more misconceptions, was something that didn't come about until the 2nd generation SAA's. |
March 27, 2013, 02:09 AM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 30, 2005
Posts: 541
|
Sorry about the image sizes, I tried typing in different sizes in Imgur but it would apply different sizes than what I set automatically for some reason.
Some of you guys are mentioning safeties on your colts/clones, mine doesn't seem to have any kind of safety that I can see. The pin is set (kind of loosely, springloaded?) into the hammer itself with just a hole through which to strike the primer. Is this normal or should my cattleman have something else that maybe was taken off of it? Let me try some more images with proper sizing. Also need to brush that action out and oil it soon. Last edited by Glock 31; March 27, 2013 at 02:20 AM. |
March 27, 2013, 09:00 AM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 10, 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 2,985
|
Your last photo shows the safety, the bar that is just below the firing pin on the face of the hammer.
When the hammer is drawn back to the first notch, the safery notch, the trigger sear pushes up a rod inside the hammer, pivoting this bar down so that it impinges between the hammer face and frame. Like the Ruger transfer bar, you don't "do" anythiong to engage it, other than placing the hammer in this position. I believe Skeeter Skelton tested this by placing a live (or blank) round under the hammer and engaging the safety. He then used a wooden hammer handle to strike the hammer spur repeatedly trying to fire the round. It didn't fire. Here are two of my Ubertis. The one on the left has the hammer block safety: Bob Wright Last edited by Bob Wright; March 27, 2013 at 09:05 AM. |
March 28, 2013, 12:39 AM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 30, 2005
Posts: 541
|
Good to know Bob, thank you for clearing that up. I still keep the hammer down on an empty cylinder but it's reassuring that the gun doesn't seem to be missing anything.
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|