When handloading for 410, cork or felt wads?

[flashhole]

I've been toying with the idea of handloading for a single shot 410. I want to use brass casings and will most likely try to load buckshot. What kind of wad material is better - cork or felt. I plan to cut it with a die cutter. Also, can a 41 mag die be used to do a mild crimp? What rpoblems should I be on the look out for?

[darkgael]

As with all drawn brass shotshell hulls, you will run into dimensional problems. The fact that you plan to cut your own wads is a good thing because normal .410 sized components are too small for the interior of .410 brass hulls.
You want a snug fit on your wads and cards.
My advice - forget the crimp. In my experience, if you put a crimp on the hull, it is permanent. You expect that it will "shoot out" and flatten when the shell is fired. It doesn't.
Then, when you want to reload the hull, the mouth is too small.
Just make a snug OS card and glue it in with a bead of Duco cement. (I have tried wax, Elmers Glue, Waterglass, silicon......Duco is the best.)
Pete

[flashhole]

Thanks for the quick response. Yes, my thinking was the crimp would "shoot out". I believe you just saved me a bunch of trouble.

[zippy13]

Yep, all-brass hulls get an over shot wad. Do yourself a favor and load conventional plastic .410 hulls with conventional components. If you still want something a little different, give a .410 muzzle loader a try.

My friend, Pete (darkgael), has gone to great effort and expense to obtain and properly load all-brass hulls. I know shooting all-brass .410's is maxi-cool; but, IMHO, it's not worth all the effort. And, I doubt they perform as well as conventional reloads with plastic shot cups. Because a .410 shot column is long and skinny, with old time loads many of the pellets are deformed by contact with the barrel. This doesn't help pattern uniformity. Hitting things with the .410-bore is already hard enough, why make it harder?

[darkgael]

No, they don't pattern as well as conventional plastic hulls.
As to cork or felt....I have used both and am (or was) partial to felt. I can't say, though, that there was a big difference.
Buckshot......you will need a buffer for best performance, especially in brass hulls where there is a lot of room. You might be well served by using a conventional wad to stack the shot in and seat that on your OP wads,,,,if you can make them fit.
An alternative would be not to use "buckshot" at all but rather lead round balls. Hornady sells a LRB at .395", larger than 0000 buck. it would fit......you have to watch the weight of the load (one .395" ball weighs 92 grs.) These will fit better than buckshot and yet will still rattle a bit.
Pete

[flashhole]

The .395 round balls is actually what I had in mind when I said buckshot. Would there be a difference in patterning bewteen brass or plastic hulls. I would think not given there are only three pellets. This is my wife's barn gun. She disposes of undesireable critters like opossums and skunks and an occasional coyote. I want it to be effective to about 60 yards if needed so I was favoring the large round balls. What kind of buffer material do I need?

[ThomasT]

I just loaded up some buckshot loads myself and used 3 round balls .395 in size and they worked surprisingly well. I used a plastic 3" hull and cut the petals off a standard wad. I had to use some wadded up paper towels to get the three balls where I needed them so I could roll crimp the case.

Now that I have some 2.5" once fired hulls I will use those. I bought some "Stump Wads" from BPI. I will cut them in half and then load the 3 balls and roll crimp. I used a 1cc dipper from Lee for the charge of 2400 powder. I have no plans to use any buffer. I have also read that an overshot wad is not needed. Just a roll crimp so thats what I will try.

If you use a brass case and the balls are a tight fit you may be able to drizzle some of the Lee liquid alox on the top ball to hold the load in place. You will have to try that one yourself.

If you go to castboolits.com you can buy 500 balls from Forefathers Casting for $25. You have to join the forum to purchase but thats no biggy.

Please report back how it goes. I am new to the 410 loading and am still learning. I don't have a press. I use a Mec 410 sizer bushing and resize by hand. Its not fast but its fun and I have perfectly good loads that shoot as well as the factory stuff. And they cost me one third the cost of factory loads.

[flashhole]

ratshooter - where did you get your roll crimp tool?

[darkgael]

BPI sells roll crimp tools.
Try this link: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/products.asp?dept=128
Do not roll crimp brass hulls.

Ratshooter:

I bought some "Stump Wads" from BPI. I will cut them in half and then load the 3 balls and roll crimp. I used a 1cc dipper from Lee for the charge of 2400 powder. I have no plans to use any buffer.

I like that. I have a bag of the Stump wads. So.....you are just using the gas seal from the Stumps? Gotta try that.
Pete

[flashhole]

So in the data tables from Hodgdon or IMR when they give you load weight it doesn't matter if you use round balls or #9 shot, weight is weight. Correct?

Tons of data for 12 and 20 gauge but not so much for 410. Is it not recommended to use 4 round balls in a load?

[halfmile]

Yes, weight is weight. Other parameters are sealing efficiency, crimp stiffness, etc.

Be careful with buffer, it can change pressures, and if you are high you can get into a problem. Not blowing up the gun, but continued shooting of high pressure loads stresses things.

I would not use card wads, etc myself because pellet scrub and deformation will kill accuracy, as well as fouling the bore with lead.

Finally, if you really want 60 yard accuracy get yourself some .410 slugs and an optical red dot type sight. I have my doubts about killing coons and the like with shot loads, especially with only 3 pellets.

HM

HM

[ThomasT]

I got the roll crimp tool from BPI. There is another SG reloading site whos name escapes me right now that sells a roll crimp tool that is supposed to be better and is $5 cheaper.

The weight of 3 round .395 balls is right at 11/16 oz. so you can use the same powder load. I would like to shoot 4-5 balls but without tested data I won't do it.

Also 60 yards would be hard for a 12ga with 12 balls. You better cut your range in half and then get closer. If she wants to shoot at 60 yards then get a 22 or better yet a 22 mag.

[ThomasT]

Okay I went and found my old thresd on THR and the place that has the roll crimper that is supposed to be better than BPIs is Precision Reloading.

[flashhole]

Thanks, I'll check it out.