Pyrodex Chrony Results

P-990 · November 30, 2006, 10:44 PM

Or how I almost fell off my chair at the range today!

Given a really nice day here in NH, I packed my muzzleloader and chrony up to the range before work this afternoon. I decided I was going to try to find a solution to my big-huge-box-o'-stuff for my muzzleloading. One bullet, one propellant, n'more!

So I chrony'ed some loads (my rifle is a 20" T/C Encore) and here's the results:

1) 110gr Goex FFg, 240gr Mag Express sabot. Holy smokes!! I forgot how to handle recoil shooting my "rat rifle" that last few weeks. Big ball of fire, smoke, noise. Sort of fun, indifferent 100-yard accuracy, but could have just been me anticipating. Average speed: 1570-fps (roughly).

2) 2 Triple Seven pellets, 250gr Shockwave Superglide sabot combo. I've tried to find someway to use the pellets. Quite a few people tell me, "Why would you buy that rifle and then not use sabots?" Duh! If I wanted shotgun patterns, I'd shoot buckshot. Again, not super consistent accuracy-wise, and again, probably me. Average speed: about the same as Goex load above.

3) 95gr Pyrodex RS, 240gr Mag Express sabot. I originally intended to lay-to-rest my buddy's claim that Pyro is hotter than BP. I always told him "No way." Well, unless I did something to my chrony, he's right. This load also "grouped" the best, with 5 shots within 6". Of course, if I throw away the low shot (#2), the remaining group of 4 is a decent 3.5". Average speed: 1734-fps!!

Smokin'!!

I think that settles it. I'm loading 95gr of Pyrodex, a 240gr Mag Express, getting the rifle zeroed and calling it ENOUGH!! The rest of the stuff in my range box (sabots, powders, etc) can be left in a dark corner now. Finally. Of course, now I need to get on the horn with TC and get the proper height front sight ordered up, for this load was shooting a little low at 100.

So much for pellets, fancy bullets and super-special sabots. It's cheap, it shoots well and is readily available at all local stores. What more can you want? (Other than venison in the freezer, but we won't worry about that this year methinks.

)

mrawesome22 · November 30, 2006, 11:19 PM

My Knight with 245gr PowerBelts and 100gr vol/equivalent Pyrodex RS shoots 5 shot groups at 100yrds with all holes touching. This is with a scope. Oh, and you must hold a muzzleloader very firmly against your shoulder and cheek or they will kick the hell out of you. Especially these new light weight composite stock models. I don't know why they make guns so light nowadays. All they do is kick you to death. I took the butt plate off my Knight and found that the stock is hollow so I stuffed a bunch of weight and socks in their. Recoil reduction was dramatic and it also balanced the gun very well.

mec · December 1, 2006, 09:07 AM

Same here. 80 gr by volume Pyrodex RS gets me the same velocity as 100 grains of goex ffg from my lyman plains rifle. Pyrodex P gets higher velocities than goex fffg from my pistols and revolvers and is more equivalent to Swiss fffg.

Recent stuff may be more energetic than in the past. Taffin lists loads with pyrodex p that are equivalent to goex fffg. I believe he gathered most of his data several years ago. ( he mentions the now defunct Armi San Marco revolvers.) We found a green can of pyrodex p when bates cleaned out his garage. the stuff had been opened and partially used during the 1970s and then lost in the garage for the next few decades. Temperatures ranging from -5 to +110 right up to 2005.

the old stuff was over 100 fps slower than the new from a 61 navy. Could have been different formulation, moisture change or deterioration or a combination of the three. In any case the extreme spreads were about the same.

P-990 · December 1, 2006, 09:21 AM

My biggest worry when shooting that Pyrodex load is the fact that I get blow-back from the primer (at least, I think that's what's causing it) all through the hinge area. Also, the primers come out smoked, like they do in centerfire rifles if you go overpressure and pop one. (Yeah, yeah, I KNOW what that condition looks like...

)

Oh, and above, I meant to say using PELLETS, not sabots. The sabots give me great accuracy; the pellets are next to useless IMO.

As for recoil, I agree the rifle is a bit light, but it handles nicely. The stock does sound hollow, so there is likely some way to add some weight into it. Flex-tech or not, it kicks pretty good when you're not accustomed to it. An AR-15 it ain't, that's for sure.

The accuracy was likely me. I'll try that 95-gr Pyro load again in a few weeks (after I calm down again

) and see what it looks like then. This rifle HAS put 3 bullets through one hole, but at a much easier to manage 50-yards. (One of the loads was 110gr Pyrodex RS and the 240 sabot. I'm obviously looking for less recoil while still seeing the speed and accuracy I want.)

sundance44s · December 1, 2006, 09:49 AM

Pyrodex is hotter than real black ...i don`t have a chrono ..but i`ve done some penatration testing with both (wet phone books )...and Pyrodex wins every time ....i still like real black better ..

timothy75 · December 4, 2006, 08:10 PM

Yep, Prodex is closer in performance to the BP used in the 19th century than todays hobby powders. Had it been around I think it would have become the standard. Those who wish to be authentic can choose between performance and cleaning regime or the presence of salpeter.

November 30, 2006, 10:44 PM	#1
P-990 Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2002 Location: Only1/2WayThere Posts: 1,316	Pyrodex Chrony Results Or how I almost fell off my chair at the range today! Given a really nice day here in NH, I packed my muzzleloader and chrony up to the range before work this afternoon. I decided I was going to try to find a solution to my big-huge-box-o'-stuff for my muzzleloading. One bullet, one propellant, n'more! So I chrony'ed some loads (my rifle is a 20" T/C Encore) and here's the results: 1) 110gr Goex FFg, 240gr Mag Express sabot. Holy smokes!! I forgot how to handle recoil shooting my "rat rifle" that last few weeks. Big ball of fire, smoke, noise. Sort of fun, indifferent 100-yard accuracy, but could have just been me anticipating. Average speed: 1570-fps (roughly). 2) 2 Triple Seven pellets, 250gr Shockwave Superglide sabot combo. I've tried to find someway to use the pellets. Quite a few people tell me, "Why would you buy that rifle and then not use sabots?" Duh! If I wanted shotgun patterns, I'd shoot buckshot. Again, not super consistent accuracy-wise, and again, probably me. Average speed: about the same as Goex load above. 3) 95gr Pyrodex RS, 240gr Mag Express sabot. I originally intended to lay-to-rest my buddy's claim that Pyro is hotter than BP. I always told him "No way." Well, unless I did something to my chrony, he's right. This load also "grouped" the best, with 5 shots within 6". Of course, if I throw away the low shot (#2), the remaining group of 4 is a decent 3.5". Average speed: 1734-fps!! Smokin'!! I think that settles it. I'm loading 95gr of Pyrodex, a 240gr Mag Express, getting the rifle zeroed and calling it ENOUGH!! The rest of the stuff in my range box (sabots, powders, etc) can be left in a dark corner now. Finally. Of course, now I need to get on the horn with TC and get the proper height front sight ordered up, for this load was shooting a little low at 100. So much for pellets, fancy bullets and super-special sabots. It's cheap, it shoots well and is readily available at all local stores. What more can you want? (Other than venison in the freezer, but we won't worry about that this year methinks. ) __________________ NRA Master, Highpower Rifle, Across-the-Course NRA Expert, Highpower Rifle, Mid-Range Prone

December 1, 2006, 09:07 AM	#3
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	Same here. 80 gr by volume Pyrodex RS gets me the same velocity as 100 grains of goex ffg from my lyman plains rifle. Pyrodex P gets higher velocities than goex fffg from my pistols and revolvers and is more equivalent to Swiss fffg. Recent stuff may be more energetic than in the past. Taffin lists loads with pyrodex p that are equivalent to goex fffg. I believe he gathered most of his data several years ago. ( he mentions the now defunct Armi San Marco revolvers.) We found a green can of pyrodex p when bates cleaned out his garage. the stuff had been opened and partially used during the 1970s and then lost in the garage for the next few decades. Temperatures ranging from -5 to +110 right up to 2005. the old stuff was over 100 fps slower than the new from a 61 navy. Could have been different formulation, moisture change or deterioration or a combination of the three. In any case the extreme spreads were about the same. Last edited by mec; August 28, 2010 at 09:21 PM.

December 1, 2006, 09:21 AM	#4
P-990 Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2002 Location: Only1/2WayThere Posts: 1,316	My biggest worry when shooting that Pyrodex load is the fact that I get blow-back from the primer (at least, I think that's what's causing it) all through the hinge area. Also, the primers come out smoked, like they do in centerfire rifles if you go overpressure and pop one. (Yeah, yeah, I KNOW what that condition looks like... ) Oh, and above, I meant to say using PELLETS, not sabots. The sabots give me great accuracy; the pellets are next to useless IMO. As for recoil, I agree the rifle is a bit light, but it handles nicely. The stock does sound hollow, so there is likely some way to add some weight into it. Flex-tech or not, it kicks pretty good when you're not accustomed to it. An AR-15 it ain't, that's for sure. The accuracy was likely me. I'll try that 95-gr Pyro load again in a few weeks (after I calm down again ) and see what it looks like then. This rifle HAS put 3 bullets through one hole, but at a much easier to manage 50-yards. (One of the loads was 110gr Pyrodex RS and the 240 sabot. I'm obviously looking for less recoil while still seeing the speed and accuracy I want.) __________________ NRA Master, Highpower Rifle, Across-the-Course NRA Expert, Highpower Rifle, Mid-Range Prone

December 1, 2006, 09:49 AM	#5
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	Sundance44s Pyrodex is hotter than real black ...i don`t have a chrono ..but i`ve done some penatration testing with both (wet phone books )...and Pyrodex wins every time ....i still like real black better ..

November 30, 2006, 11:19 PM	#2
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	My Knight with 245gr PowerBelts and 100gr vol/equivalent Pyrodex RS shoots 5 shot groups at 100yrds with all holes touching. This is with a scope. Oh, and you must hold a muzzleloader very firmly against your shoulder and cheek or they will kick the hell out of you. Especially these new light weight composite stock models. I don't know why they make guns so light nowadays. All they do is kick you to death. I took the butt plate off my Knight and found that the stock is hollow so I stuffed a bunch of weight and socks in their. Recoil reduction was dramatic and it also balanced the gun very well.

December 4, 2006, 08:10 PM	#6
timothy75 Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2005 Location: Nevada Posts: 1,146	Yep, Prodex is closer in performance to the BP used in the 19th century than todays hobby powders. Had it been around I think it would have become the standard. Those who wish to be authentic can choose between performance and cleaning regime or the presence of salpeter.