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Old August 28, 2008, 03:15 PM   #1
sthrnfryedyankee
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? about humanely taking animals

I have been watching my hunting shows and I have seen numerous rifle and bow shots where the shooter hits the animal VERY close if not on the spine itself at the middle of the back. Is that a humane shot? I personally dont think it is, wouldnt that rank up there with getting parylized and lead to a slow drawn out death. Thats gotta suck. I havent taken many deer but something about those shots doesnt seem right.
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Old August 28, 2008, 03:29 PM   #2
ringworm
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since a arrow moves at a speed slower than the sound of the arrow string there is often a reaction by the animal being shot. it "jumps" the string so to speak by ducking down in a state of readiness. this pulls the intended target area downwards and many times the arrow flies over the animals back. sometimes it strikes the animal in the spine paralyzing it instantly.
Anyone who says they can and do shoot deer in the spine is full of chit. if it happens the archer should count himself lucky to have hit the deer at all.
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Old August 28, 2008, 03:41 PM   #3
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I have accidentally (negligently?) shot two deer just below the spine. In both cases, I was holding high due to poor range estimation and hit higher than I would have preferred.

Both deer were DRT and neither laster longer than a double-lung or heart shot deer. I didn't have a stopwatch but it seemed to me that it was actually quicker. On both animals, the spine was broken and so were ribs on both sides. There was a lot of trauma to the vitals and massive internal bleeding.

It is my belief that it's not inhumane. I don't try for CNS shots since the margin of error is lower than that of a heart/lung shot. I don't use that to justify sloppy hunting, rather I do it out of respect for the animal and a desire for a quick end. I'm bothered if I hit more than an inch from where I was holding.
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Old August 28, 2008, 03:46 PM   #4
Kreyzhorse
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I'm not a fan of the spine shot. Hunting out west, my Dad pulled a shot and hit a doe in the spine, she dropped but got up to run and was only able to drag her rear end. We finished her within seconds of the first shot, but it isn't something I'd try to do. Everyone will make a bad shot if you hunt long enough, it happens, but taking care of the animal after a bad shot is mandatory.

Me, I'll stick to the heart lung shot. In the grand scheme, I don't know that's really humane either, but I feel its a quick kill with a decent margin of error.
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Old August 28, 2008, 04:46 PM   #5
hogdogs
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To sever the brain stem or spinal cord is pithing.
It is a known method to euthanize farm animals. Here are the defs. i found...
8. to destroy the spinal cord or brain of.
9. to slaughter, as cattle, by severing the spinal cord.
Is it humane to do this from a distance hunting? IMHO YMMV it is a shot with too much room for error to do intentionally.
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:04 PM   #6
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I think hunters should strive for the most efficient stop as possible which usually is also the most humane. But efficient harvesting of the animal is primary. If you are overly concerned with the game's comfort you should probably not be hunting because hunting is a brutal concern. In Alaska the hunters would shoot the big Brown and Grizzly bears in the shoulder to break it, allowing them the time to take a careful and close in head shot. It seemed cruel but it was very efficient.
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:05 PM   #7
davlandrum
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I know hunting shows used to (and might still) go for spine shots so they can get it on camera.

There was one bow hunting show where the guy actually called the shot and said that was what he was going to do, and then did it.

Not a shot I would take or recommend.
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:11 PM   #8
MrNiceGuy
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Quote:
is It Humane To Do This From A Distance Hunting? Imho Ymmv It Is A Shot With Too Much Room For Error To Do Intentionally.
IMHO YMMV IDK WYTBW Pc
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:15 PM   #9
L_Killkenny
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Spine shots are very effective and humane. Bows require a deer to bleed out no matter where you hit them and there is a couple big a$$ arteries that run along the spine.

But then on the other hand, who the heck cares? Did the deer you see shot die? Job done.

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Old August 28, 2008, 06:26 PM   #10
davlandrum
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Never said they weren't effective.

My issue with them is the margin for error is very small compared to a traditional heart/lung shot. Especially with a bow, since you do not get the shock effect. It is possible to put an arrow under the spine but over the lungs.
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Old August 30, 2008, 01:11 PM   #11
ringworm
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I knew a guy who took a 200+ yard shot w/ a 336 at a running doe 3 years ago. i was standing beside him and had just put a nice buck down when a doe broke from the edge and took off like a scalded dog. he raised up the rifle and fired as soon as it hit his shoulder.
the bullet entered about 1/2" under her left ear and tore out the right side of her head.
to this day he still swears that he meant to hit her there but i was watching and i saw his face when she rolled. he was more amazed than me.
when people pull off something by accident they should just step up and be glad, not try to convince the world thats what they meant to do.
so send an e-mail to the guy on the TV show and ask him if he advocates this shot and/ or practices it.
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Old August 30, 2008, 01:53 PM   #12
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sthrnfryedyankee, the next time you clean a deer pay attention to the structures near the backbone. There are some big blood vessels there which are the main plumbing for the deer's circulatory system. Same thing it true running up the neck, but the vessels are a bit smaller. What I've seen with shots that are a little high is that if they don't break the spine they destroy these blood vessels.

I found a website which has diagrams. That big huge blood vessel which curves around and heads toward the tail right under the spine is called the aorta. It's about as big around as your thumb. http://nybowhunter.blogspot.com/2008...s-diagram.html
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Old August 30, 2008, 04:23 PM   #13
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I like to take what is called the "high shoulder shot."



To take this shot, you look for the middle of the deer's front leg. You go straight up from there to the top of the back. Then you come down 4 to 5 inches and pull the trigger.
As you can see from this diagram, the spine is at its widest here. Also, you have the scapula [shoulderblade] right in front of the spine. Good chance you will hit the scapula first, and send bone shrapnel flying.
Just below the spine are the lungs. And, running close by are the giant arteries.

A good high shoulder shot will blow up the spine and cut the spinal cord, which paralyzes all 4 legs and causes unconsciousness. Bone and/or metal shrapnel will devastate the lungs. On a good day, the big artery will also be cut.
This shot is much better than a neck shot. A deer standing still will often swivel its neck around, but the shoulders remain still.

I have tried this shot a dozen times and the result was the same every time: Instant death. When I go for this shot, I don't wait 15 minutes, or even one minute after pulling the trigger.
I go straight down from the stand and walk up to the deer. In every case he was dead right there.

Still, my favorite shot is the lung shot. I take the high shoulder shot when it is getting dark and I don't want to track. A couple of times I took it when I was right next to the Oconee River, I didn't want to go swimming after a buck. Also I want the deer to be real close, 60 yards or less, and standing still.

I have made over 70 lung shots and I recovered every one of those deer, only thing was, many of them I had to blood trail over 100 yards.
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Old August 30, 2008, 10:27 PM   #14
MeekAndMild
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Simon Kenton, that is one problem with the high shot, bone and bullet fragments if you hit the scapula or spine.
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Old August 30, 2008, 11:24 PM   #15
jrothWA
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You would have ....an"Elk" diagram???

Looking at ELk and black bear in Washington.
More info be nice.

Last edited by jrothWA; August 30, 2008 at 11:25 PM. Reason: hit "enter" too early.
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Old August 31, 2008, 08:04 AM   #16
simonkenton
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Bone and bullet fragments are a benefit of taking the high shoulder shot.
Those bone chunks blast around like shrapnel, and tear up the lungs, and hopefully the big artery. Then the deer dies quickly.

As I said I have made this shot a dozen times. You do mess up a little backstrap, blood shot and with bone and bullet fragments in it.
You can bet on losing a pound of backstrap with a good high shoulder shot.
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Old August 31, 2008, 10:45 AM   #17
MeekAndMild
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I've taken a few deer, three or four where the bullet passed close enough to break the spine by hydraulic force but I've avoided deliberately trying to hit the spine/shoulder more because I don't want to have to pick out bone fragments from the meat and because I worry about CWD exposure, another thing altogether.
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Old August 31, 2008, 02:08 PM   #18
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Most of the time A spine shot is A "drop on the spot shot". One good thing is if one don't make the shot it is usually A clean miss and you usually don't end up with A wounded deer to chase and maybe lose. So it does have some good points also. I'm not saying that this is the shot to take and I do not recommend it in most cases. However it still remains an option at times.
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