Help! Advice needed before varmint rifle purchase!

[Sierra280]

A friend is turning 60 later this year, and a few of us have decided to go in together on a rifle for him. Not sure if he reads TFL so we'll call him Bob. Here's where I need some advice; Bob is an experienced hunter, has taken elk and deer over the years with his 700 BDL 30-06, which I believe is the only centerfire rifle he has ever owned (also has a 22lr of course). He had mentioned before that he was looking for a good varmint rifle, but he thought he wanted a 17hmr, but wasn't sure. Bob lives in north eastern Nevada and has a serious coyote problem around where he lives, so I really didnt think a 17 Rimfire would be adequate (never used one on coyotes, but there are some wide open spaces where he lives)

I know he was looking for something relatively cheap to shoot, lightweight to carry around, and relatively low on the recoil. Any suggestions??

Since this is a gift, a new rifle is pretty much the only option, and since a few of us are buying it for him, reasonable cost is also a factor. Also, he loves camo, so a camo stock option would be a plus. And although he's a hunter, he's not so much a gun guy (probably wouldn't notice if his BDL was replaced by an ADL that looked the same).

[mxsailor803]

Talk about a nice gift. Depending on available ammo, have you looked at 22-250, .223 or if he is like me and likes to be a little different .222? I'm almost positive you can get the first 2 in the ADL. For the .222 not going to happen. The .223 would probably be the easiest to find ammo for and cheapest. Take pics before you give it to him.

[Art Eatman]

Check out various bolt actions in .223. Tikka and Savage have good reputations for accuracy in their light sporter configurations.

I've never given thought to camo. All a critter ever maybe sees is the muzzle and the scope's objective lens.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Savage 25 Walking Varminter in .223....


except I'd rather have a .204Ruger (by far my first choice), so Model 10 Hunter Max except it's a little on the heavy side a 8.5lbs without a scope.


So... maybe a Tikka T3 Camo stainless.


Definitely .204Ruger though. (not that you can really be "wrong" with any of them.)

[Bake]

+N.E. Nevada=a lot of wind (?)...
+Coyotes= large target...
+Range=maybe around 250 to 350 yards...
---------= if this adds up,

Sounds like a good 243/6mm with good glass would be worth talking about.

[histed]

FWIW, I agree with the 243/6mm suggestion. I hunt groundhogs with a .223 using 50 or 55 gr TNT. Its great to about 300 yards until the wind picks up. After that, life can get interesting. IMO, the heavier ball from a .243 will not only buck the wind better, but be more effective on yotes.

[loic]

I have a rem 700 in 22-250 (sps varmint) for coyotes and other varmint, im from vegas so I think we get a lot more wind than north nevada. I use a shooting stick while calling for yotes and others. Its a good rifle, the glass I have on it is a redfield revenge and can hit a 12" square target at 600 yards without adjust the scope (no winds) I reload for it, so far the 55 gr vmax is what gave me the best group with varget but they are too fast to my taste (average 3920fts) and really blow up what it touch. In may ill work with a different bullet, but anyway, the rem 700 are good. You/he can always later on change the hinge plate "mag" to a detachable mag. The hyatt 10 rds for 308 will work just fine

[Sierra280]

Bake: yep, always windy. Coyotes, as well as other, smaller varmints (jacks rabbits, etc) Max range is probably going to be 3-350yds.

Total rifle weight (with optics) is definitly an issue.

And again, the camo stock is a must. I don't get it, but we're talking about a guy who wears camo PJ's and slippers so he can 'jump out of bed and go hunting' if he needs to. Like I said, I don't understand it.

Also, a package deal, rifle with scope would make things easy.

[loic]

My 700 fully dressed is quite heavy (after market stock is heavier than original..) that may not work.. how about an ar ? Camo would be hard but tan should be easy to find, they are light, not too expensive to feed

[loic]

Originally Posted by histed

FWIW, I agree with the 243/6mm suggestion. I hunt groundhogs with a .223 using 50 or 55 gr TNT. Its great to about 300 yards until the wind picks up. After that, life can get interesting. IMO, the heavier ball from a .243 will not only buck the wind better, but be more effective on yotes.

243 may be expensive to feed ?

[Shane Tuttle]

Brian or others with .204 experience will have to correct me if I'm wrong. I believe the .204Ruger is extremely low recoil and goes against the trend on bucking the wind. You'd think a heavier bullet does better than a lighter bullet generally speaking. But there's been reports the .204 does well in its own right bucking the wind. My guess is the velocity is so high and the bullet is so small that it cuts right through it. As far as bucking the wind at 3-350 yards? That's a question for Brian again.

I would look at the Savage Model 25...again, like Brian said.

(Am I Brian's sock puppet? You'd think so, anyway, after reading my post...)

[Brian Pfleuger]

You sure won't find a coyote capable cartridge with less recoil than a .204 and you'll find very few that come close to the trajectory.

A heavy .243 bullet (like a 95gr SST) will just about match the wind drift of a 40gr .204 out through 500 yards but the .204 has better trajectory, by about 1" at 300, 2" at 400 and 3" at 500.

Effectively, there's no discernible trajectory difference at 350 yards but there sure is a difference at the gun. The .204 will have far less recoil and muzzle blast.

The only thing that can beat a .204 for drift and trajectory at these ranges is a .22-250 handloaded with ultra-light bullets at warp speed. (I load 35gr Noslers at 4,435fps). That's considerably more blast and recoil than a .204 though.

For me, there's no doubt. If the target is coyotes at 350 and less (frankly, 500 and less) the answer is .204Ruger. With the additional criteria to minimize recoil, it's a no brainer.

[Devdev08]

I think I would suggest a savage 25 walking varminter In camo in a .223. You should have no problem finding the gun for under $500 and then buying a nice decent scope of your choice.
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/

[loic]

Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger

The only thing that can beat a .204 for drift and trajectory at these ranges is a .22-250 handloaded with ultra-light bullets at warp speed. (I load 35gr Noslers at 4,435fps). That's considerably more blast and recoil than a .204 though.

.

Thats really fast for a 22-250 ! How the nosler react when hitting the yote ? (Sorry for the highjack)

[Brian Pfleuger]

Generally, it's kind of ugly. My uncle got one the other day with no exit though. Must have scared it to death

[Scorch]

OOooh, Brian, that's a nice looking pelt! Gonna stretch it?

Having lived in NV and ID and eastern ID, and having shot a 22-250 for decades, I think a 223 is a pretty neat little rifle. Low recoil, easy to shoot, and easy on the pocketbook. But my next build is going to be a 204. Either way, I think OP's friend would be happy.

[Mobuck]

"Bob" is obviously not a high volume shooter nor is he an avid "gun guy". Considering his purpose and location, I'd go with a 22/250 or 243(maybe a 25/06). All provide a wide selection of factory ammo, have good range, and work well in windy conditions on coyote sized varmints.

[loic]

Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger

Generally, it's kind of ugly. My uncle got one the other day with no exit though. Must have scared it to death

Thats what I thought, I had some ugly exit wound using the 55 gr vmax and 36gr of varget clocked shy of 4000 fps. But this load is, so far, the best I could develop (tightest group) I bought a marlin in 17 hmr to go after bobcat as I dont want to blow them up.
This yote was taken last August, young female. I like them with long leg ....LOL

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by Scorch

OOooh, Brian, that's a nice looking pelt! Gonna stretch it?

He has a friend that does it and splits the money with him... recently the price was $7 for one in good condition, as such, they go in the bait pile.

He got a really nice looking 50lb male a few weeks ago.

Originally Posted by loic

Thats what I thought, I had some ugly exit wound using the 55 gr vmax and 36gr of varget clocked shy of 4000 fps.

Yeah, we've had some issues getting no or small exits. I've got a box of Barnes Varmint Grenades for the 6mm. Should be able to approach 4,000 with those... see what they do.

The little ones, there's no chance. Even my .204 blows a huge hole in them and it normally doesn't even exit a woodchuck.

[Sierra280]

Thanks for all the good suggestions! We have some time before his b-day so I will keep an eye on the sales at the local cabelas and sportsmans warehouse. It looks like the savage axis comes in some nice package deals with scope and camo stock, so does the ruger American ( though I'm leaning toward the savage). So I will just watch the sales and go from their.

Also, I know these are both entry level rifle packages, but they fit the criteria. Any favor for one or the other? (Savage axis vs. ruger American)

[Mobuck]

I have a poor opinion of the Axis but it's just my opinion. About as handsome as a snake club.

[Huffmanite]

Might want to check your Cabela's for a Marlin X7 rifle in .223. Unlike the Axis, the Marlin comes with a decent adjustable trigger. Gent that's a fellow range member owns this Marlin in 223 and is quite happy with his, especially its accuracy. I own an Axis .223 and several Marlin X rifles in other cartridges. Prefer the Marlin.

[Devdev08]

Huffmanite Might want to check your Cabela's for a Marlin X7 rifle in .223. Unlike the Axis, the Marlin comes with a decent adjustable trigger.

The savage axis ii comes with the accutrigger and it adjust nicely and breaks like glass.

[Wyosmith]

In a bolt action I think the CZ 527 is about as good as it gets for a 223, 204 or 17. Of them all I'd take the 223 and make sure they get you one with a 1-9 twist. They offer them in both 1-9 and 1-14
The 9" twist will allow for use of bullets up to 75 grains and these do buck the wind much better than the 50 or 55 grain bullets.

If you or your friend load your own ammo, one cool rifle to make up in a 22-250 re-barreled with a 1-9 twist. This is about the ultimate Nevada Coyote Rifle" for shooting long range. The 77-90 grain bullets from a 22-250 reach out about as well as any round you can fire with the exception of a 408 Chytac or maybe a 50 BMG, both of which are a bit more powerful than you’d generally like to use on coyotes.

There are a number of good smiths in the Carson City Nevada and Reno area who can do that kind of work. Probably some in Gardnerville or Minden too.

My all-around favorite coyote rifle is an AR-15 with a 1-8 twist and a match grade barrel. It doesn’t shoot as flat as a 22-250 but recoil is so light that getting a 2nd shot or even a 3rd is common if you miss your first. As a die-hard believer in accuracy and 1 shot kills I never thought I’d say that, but the last 10 years of using an AR have proven to me the truth of it.
I have hunted coyotes now for about 46 years and I never thought I’d give up on my tuned bolt actions, but ones I tried a highly accurate AR I had to admit it was a better mouse trap for coyote hunting.

In a good example the accuracy from them is eye opening. With 69 grain bullets its super effective on coyotes out to 500 yards (maybe farther, but so far that’s as far as I have used it) and the wind bucking of the round is good enough to work with. It’s not as good as a 150 grain boat tail 270 for example, but it also doesn’t blow huge holes in the hides and I have made a lot of money selling hides from coyotes I killed with my AR in the last 10 years of so.

With a 20 inch barrel and a free float tube a good AR can be made to weight about what an average bolt gun will weigh. If you would rather go a bit lighter you can turn a match barrel down to the old “pencil barrel contour” of the Vietnam War M-16 and still have a highly accurate rifle. Heavy barrels do not necessarily shoot better than light ones, but they do heat up slower and usually last longer for that reason. If we are talking about hunting only a light barrel will do all the heavy barrel will do. The key is to take the machining slow and easy and use a follow rest to prevent it from warping as it’s turned.
A match trigger and a free float tube should be used on all ARs that you want to make varmint guns out of.

Anyway……..just my random thoughts.

[Jimro]

I know he was looking for something relatively cheap to shoot, lightweight to carry around, and relatively low on the recoil. Any suggestions??

When it comes to "cheap to feed" you can't beat the 223.

But that being said, cheap 223 ammunition isn't always the most accurate. But for coyotes, even 3 MOA ammunition will be good for a heart/lung shot out to 300 all day long.

I think a Savage 25 Walking Varminter is where I would start looking.

Jimro