Just so I don't go not knowing.. - Page 2

btolliverjr · January 21, 2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Depends on lots of variables. The OP was "something going down." That covers a lot of territory. As for Mom and Ganny and daughter, WHAT is going down? Who am I with? What is the danger to me and my family? Just because you can do something doesn't make it a good idea.

Just let me clarify where I have been coming from with this. I was not talking about if there was a LEO in the room. My original post to this thread was

Quote:

wouldn't be a good idea. if you draw your weapon in a situation with a LEO in the room, guess who just became another target for the LEO He doesn't know that you are on his side.

What I have been talking about since then is if there is NO LEO. And I BELIEVE that some of the others that are commenting whether they would stop a killer or just sit and watch him kill (someone other than THEIR loved ones) are also making their stand from a situation without a LEO. Am I correct or have I been misunderstanding?

Glenn E. Meyer · January 21, 2009, 06:39 PM

However, the thread is about whether you would act if there was an LEO already interacting - so why don't we stay with that?

Whether one should intervene in a situation where the victim is not an immediate something or other of yours as been beaten to death in the Internet forums for years.

I was in a FOF class, where the bad guy held up the store, the GG pulled the gun and started the gun fight. I hit the deck, which was concrete and got some nice bruises for the effort but it seemed like a plan at the time.

Chuckusaret · January 22, 2009, 11:19 PM

I have a CCW for self, family and my fellow mans protection against would be bad guys in the event there are no LE types on the scene. I have no hang ups about using deadly force. Done it before and can do it again

oldkim · January 23, 2009, 03:06 PM

Okay,

How about this.... You are the cop (LEO) and you have a gunman shooting. You are going to engage and then you see another guy pull his gun too. Hmmm. Now as the LEO do you have one or two BG? Tough one to say depending on how he/she perceives you. You already know the first one is definitely a BG as he's shooting people.

In a split second assessment he engages an active BG. Now, what to do with you. Depending on the angle and how things unfold he may be shooting you next.

It's like a kid pointing a very realistic airsoft gun at a cop. He's justified to shoot you in all 50 states if the appropriate actions were taken and the child failed to follow or made threatening movements.

So, be aware of your situation.

Playing the WHAT IF's
If you can take out the BG right then? Hmm, tough one. I would. If not, let the LEO engage. If he's not able to then back him up. Let him know you'll be his back up as a law abiding citizen with a CCW. He'll appreciate having the help. How much he uses you will depend on the situation.

As to not engaging because it wasn't "my family or me" That's a total waste of time. If someone is shooting people in the mall and you didn't do anything... you have to live with yourself and may God have mercy on your cowardly soul.

rixret · January 24, 2009, 12:59 PM

How about some reply's from the LEO community? What do they think of these scenario's?

Hondo11 · January 25, 2009, 04:41 AM

(I'm not LEO anymore) If I were the LEO in question, then I would certainly appreciate the help. BUT, I would want to KNOW that you were help and not another badguy. Target discrimination and all. Whatever you do, make sure he KNOWS.

Wagonman · January 25, 2009, 11:08 AM

The Cop will be announcing his office and yelling commands--"POLICE DROP THE GUN" comply with them. Once the Copper IDs himself he has scene command. You don't want to be hit with friendly fire. BE ULTRA-COOPERATIVE and THICK SKINNED. When we were taught about off duty stuff we were told to expect to be roughly cuffed and treated as a offender until things got sorted out.

hogdogs · January 25, 2009, 11:21 AM

way back 15-20 years a feller walked into a busy small gun store and announced a robbery. Mind you, he walked past a marked patrol car of an officer who was inside. He was shot by the officer, the store keeps and civilian customers. He was hit upwards of 15 times. They do not know who fired the fatal wound as bullets from several guns were found in vital regions thru out the BG... No one else was injured or detained... I do understand this is a unique circumstance being a gun store however.
Brent

January 21, 2009, 06:39 PM	#27
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	However, the thread is about whether you would act if there was an LEO already interacting - so why don't we stay with that? Whether one should intervene in a situation where the victim is not an immediate something or other of yours as been beaten to death in the Internet forums for years. I was in a FOF class, where the bad guy held up the store, the GG pulled the gun and started the gun fight. I hit the deck, which was concrete and got some nice bruises for the effort but it seemed like a plan at the time. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

January 23, 2009, 03:06 PM	#29
oldkim Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 462	Its all about perspective Okay, How about this.... You are the cop (LEO) and you have a gunman shooting. You are going to engage and then you see another guy pull his gun too. Hmmm. Now as the LEO do you have one or two BG? Tough one to say depending on how he/she perceives you. You already know the first one is definitely a BG as he's shooting people. In a split second assessment he engages an active BG. Now, what to do with you. Depending on the angle and how things unfold he may be shooting you next. It's like a kid pointing a very realistic airsoft gun at a cop. He's justified to shoot you in all 50 states if the appropriate actions were taken and the child failed to follow or made threatening movements. So, be aware of your situation. Playing the WHAT IF's If you can take out the BG right then? Hmm, tough one. I would. If not, let the LEO engage. If he's not able to then back him up. Let him know you'll be his back up as a law abiding citizen with a CCW. He'll appreciate having the help. How much he uses you will depend on the situation. As to not engaging because it wasn't "my family or me" That's a total waste of time. If someone is shooting people in the mall and you didn't do anything... you have to live with yourself and may God have mercy on your cowardly soul. __________________ "Shoot Safetly, Shoot Often and Share Your Sport." Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA Check out my new website: www.shootonthemove.org

January 22, 2009, 11:19 PM	#28
Chuckusaret Junior member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 708	I have a CCW for self, family and my fellow mans protection against would be bad guys in the event there are no LE types on the scene. I have no hang ups about using deadly force. Done it before and can do it again

January 24, 2009, 12:59 PM	#30
rixret Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2007 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 100	How about some reply's from the LEO community? What do they think of these scenario's?

January 25, 2009, 04:41 AM	#31
Hondo11 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2008 Posts: 120	(I'm not LEO anymore) If I were the LEO in question, then I would certainly appreciate the help. BUT, I would want to KNOW that you were help and not another badguy. Target discrimination and all. Whatever you do, make sure he KNOWS.

January 25, 2009, 11:08 AM	#32
Wagonman Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,014	The Cop will be announcing his office and yelling commands--"POLICE DROP THE GUN" comply with them. Once the Copper IDs himself he has scene command. You don't want to be hit with friendly fire. BE ULTRA-COOPERATIVE and THICK SKINNED. When we were taught about off duty stuff we were told to expect to be roughly cuffed and treated as a offender until things got sorted out.

January 25, 2009, 11:21 AM	#33
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	way back 15-20 years a feller walked into a busy small gun store and announced a robbery. Mind you, he walked past a marked patrol car of an officer who was inside. He was shot by the officer, the store keeps and civilian customers. He was hit upwards of 15 times. They do not know who fired the fatal wound as bullets from several guns were found in vital regions thru out the BG... No one else was injured or detained... I do understand this is a unique circumstance being a gun store however. Brent