The Good The Bad and The Ugly

smokepole14 · June 17, 2010, 09:51 PM

I was just courious in the scene where Tuco was in the bathtub and the one armed bounty hunter tries to kill him. Tuco has his 1851 colt tied to a string around his neck and the gun is in the water. He shoots the bounty hunter while his gun is still in the water in the bathtub. Then Tuco gives his famous line "When you have to shoot shoot don't talk". Would this even be possible with a cap and ball revolver or would you have to use a cartridge conversion. More than likely tuco was using a cartridge conversion since you couldnt see the movie if they were using black powder with all the smoke. Also couldn't this be dangerous or has anyone shot a pistol under water.

the rifleer · June 17, 2010, 09:58 PM

I've never seen it, but there are ways to waterproof a C&B pistol to a certain extent. You can grease that ball and melt wax over it as well as over the precussion cap. This works great against rain, but i don't know how well it works against being fully submerged.

MJN77 · June 17, 2010, 10:40 PM

It was a conversion. There was also a lot of bubbles on top of the water. Might be wrong but he may have had the barrel out of the water.

**4V50 Gary** · June 17, 2010, 10:48 PM

Even if it was a cap 'n ball, the Tuco character would not have immersed his gun but lowered it just enough to conceal it among the bubbles.

wittzo · June 17, 2010, 11:30 PM

One of the gun magazines built a water tank and used a Ransom Rest to shoot a .357 Magnum and a .45 Colt Automatic underwater to see what would happened. The back glass of the water tank was broken in both tests and the .45 jammed.

There are several videos of Glocks being fired underwater, as long as the barrel has water inside it to equal out the pressure, everything's okay. A cartridge revolver would be even better, since there's the gap between the cylinder and barrel.

I've read that Sam Colt guaranteed that his pistols could fire if they were submerged. Didn't they made caps different back then, they were waterproofed for the soldiers?

seed · June 18, 2010, 04:56 AM

Don't know about Tuco's, but I would assume that it was cartridge...being that the man with no name's gun was. Remember the scene where he is cleaning his gun and then quickly loading it when he hears the spurs of the assassins after the soldiers outside pause their march?

Actually, remember when Tuco assembles his gun that he steals from the store after his walk in the desert? Definitely "cartridges".

MJN77 · June 18, 2010, 09:26 AM

He also really didn't have to worry about pressure, he was shooting blanks.

wittzo · June 18, 2010, 11:55 AM

Even with blanks, if you're shooting a pistol with a barrel full of water out of the water, the water becomes the projectile and ramps up the pressure.

If the pistol is completely submerged and the barrel is completely full of water, you're good to go. It's the same as if you had an air pocket between your blackpowder charge and your bullet. The hydraulic force increases the chamber pressure if there's something unbalanced in the system.

noelf2 · June 18, 2010, 12:51 PM

When Tuco assembled that gun in the gun shop (impossible how he did that in my opinion), he demanded "cartridges" before he went out to test the gun out back of the shop (another impossible scenario, but entertaining for sure). He could have had that gun under water for a bit and it would still shoot, but would he risk it? Doubt it, but it makes for a good fictional scene.

Dino. · June 18, 2010, 09:19 PM

It's neither cap and ball nor cartridge .... it's Hollywood.

noelf2 · June 19, 2010, 08:50 AM

The Italian version of Hollywood I guess..

wittzo · June 19, 2010, 12:02 PM

I wonder if the Italians were using original guns and Hollywood uses Italian replicas?

Gator Weiss · June 20, 2010, 01:07 AM

Tuco might have had his gun hid in the bubbles above the water. Tuco was taking some kind of bubble bath, wasnt he?

In the movie, Tuco robs a gun shop. While in the shop, Tuco takes a BP revolver apart. Then he removes parts from another gun and assembles himself a cartridge piece. He takes it out back and shoots the range to pieces.

Was this the gun he had in the bath tub scene?

Smokin_Gun · June 20, 2010, 02:19 AM

Yes that was the same Cartridge converted Rev with the lanyard in the tub from the Gunshop...

noelf2 · June 20, 2010, 08:56 AM

Pretty sure he used that gun through the rest of the movie. One thing I found funny is when he's turning the cylinder of the piece parts gun he put together in the old man's gun shop. I makes a nice click,click,click, and Tuco nods with satisfaction. Looking closely at the cylinder, it looks C&B. Then he asks for cartridges..

Another funny note is at the last scene when Tuco, Blondie, and Angel Eyes are in that awesome shootout. When the camera goes closeup on Angel Eyes gun and belt, you can see the percussion caps on the cylinder of his remmie, but has a belt full of cartridges

, and they look like FMJ...

Smokin_Gun · June 21, 2010, 12:24 AM

...and cartridges in the belt loops.
Still it's one a my favorites

Rampant_Colt · June 21, 2010, 12:34 AM

Angel Eyes was able to tell it was Tuco doing the shooting by the perfect timing of his hand-assembled Colt-Army-Remington-Navy-conversion revolver

At least they weren't packin' Colt SAA and 1892/'94 Winchesters like in most generic westerns..

kadima · June 21, 2010, 05:56 AM

AFAIK all the weapons used in Sergio Leone's spaghetti western were Italian replicas, like the Uberti...

... we ended up making more Colts and Remingtons around Brescia than those actually made during the Civil War.....

K. from Italy

(nice post to start....)

Scribe · June 21, 2010, 06:54 AM

...I always thought he had the gun in the bubbles, not in the water.

June 17, 2010, 09:51 PM	#1
smokepole14 Member Join Date: March 20, 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 56	The Good The Bad and The Ugly I was just courious in the scene where Tuco was in the bathtub and the one armed bounty hunter tries to kill him. Tuco has his 1851 colt tied to a string around his neck and the gun is in the water. He shoots the bounty hunter while his gun is still in the water in the bathtub. Then Tuco gives his famous line "When you have to shoot shoot don't talk". Would this even be possible with a cap and ball revolver or would you have to use a cartridge conversion. More than likely tuco was using a cartridge conversion since you couldnt see the movie if they were using black powder with all the smoke. Also couldn't this be dangerous or has anyone shot a pistol under water. __________________ Neemo: So if you want these horses, I sell them to you. Did you bring some gold with you? John Chisum No. Neemo: Silver? John Chisum: Just lead!

June 17, 2010, 09:58 PM	#2
the rifleer Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2008 Location: Sunny California Posts: 1,281	I've never seen it, but there are ways to waterproof a C&B pistol to a certain extent. You can grease that ball and melt wax over it as well as over the precussion cap. This works great against rain, but i don't know how well it works against being fully submerged. __________________ There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.

June 17, 2010, 10:48 PM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Even if it was a cap 'n ball, the Tuco character would not have immersed his gun but lowered it just enough to conceal it among the bubbles. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

June 18, 2010, 12:51 PM	#9
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	When Tuco assembled that gun in the gun shop (impossible how he did that in my opinion), he demanded "cartridges" before he went out to test the gun out back of the shop (another impossible scenario, but entertaining for sure). He could have had that gun under water for a bit and it would still shoot, but would he risk it? Doubt it, but it makes for a good fictional scene. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

June 19, 2010, 08:50 AM	#11
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	The Italian version of Hollywood I guess.. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

June 17, 2010, 10:40 PM	#3
MJN77 Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Location: on a hill in West Virginia Posts: 789	It was a conversion. There was also a lot of bubbles on top of the water. Might be wrong but he may have had the barrel out of the water.

June 17, 2010, 11:30 PM	#5
wittzo Member Join Date: February 10, 2010 Posts: 95	One of the gun magazines built a water tank and used a Ransom Rest to shoot a .357 Magnum and a .45 Colt Automatic underwater to see what would happened. The back glass of the water tank was broken in both tests and the .45 jammed. There are several videos of Glocks being fired underwater, as long as the barrel has water inside it to equal out the pressure, everything's okay. A cartridge revolver would be even better, since there's the gap between the cylinder and barrel. I've read that Sam Colt guaranteed that his pistols could fire if they were submerged. Didn't they made caps different back then, they were waterproofed for the soldiers?

June 18, 2010, 04:56 AM	#6
seed Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2004 Posts: 411	Don't know about Tuco's, but I would assume that it was cartridge...being that the man with no name's gun was. Remember the scene where he is cleaning his gun and then quickly loading it when he hears the spurs of the assassins after the soldiers outside pause their march? Actually, remember when Tuco assembles his gun that he steals from the store after his walk in the desert? Definitely "cartridges".

June 18, 2010, 09:26 AM	#7
MJN77 Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Location: on a hill in West Virginia Posts: 789	He also really didn't have to worry about pressure, he was shooting blanks.

June 18, 2010, 11:55 AM	#8
wittzo Member Join Date: February 10, 2010 Posts: 95	Even with blanks, if you're shooting a pistol with a barrel full of water out of the water, the water becomes the projectile and ramps up the pressure. If the pistol is completely submerged and the barrel is completely full of water, you're good to go. It's the same as if you had an air pocket between your blackpowder charge and your bullet. The hydraulic force increases the chamber pressure if there's something unbalanced in the system.

June 18, 2010, 09:19 PM	#10
Dino. Junior member Join Date: November 2, 2006 Posts: 908	It's neither cap and ball nor cartridge .... it's Hollywood.

June 19, 2010, 12:02 PM	#12
wittzo Member Join Date: February 10, 2010 Posts: 95	I wonder if the Italians were using original guns and Hollywood uses Italian replicas?

June 20, 2010, 01:07 AM	#13
Gator Weiss Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2007 Posts: 117	Tuco may have had the gun in the bubbles only Tuco might have had his gun hid in the bubbles above the water. Tuco was taking some kind of bubble bath, wasnt he? In the movie, Tuco robs a gun shop. While in the shop, Tuco takes a BP revolver apart. Then he removes parts from another gun and assembles himself a cartridge piece. He takes it out back and shoots the range to pieces. Was this the gun he had in the bath tub scene?

June 20, 2010, 02:19 AM	#14
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Yes that was the same Cartridge converted Rev with the lanyard in the tub from the Gunshop... __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

June 20, 2010, 08:56 AM	#15
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Pretty sure he used that gun through the rest of the movie. One thing I found funny is when he's turning the cylinder of the piece parts gun he put together in the old man's gun shop. I makes a nice click,click,click, and Tuco nods with satisfaction. Looking closely at the cylinder, it looks C&B. Then he asks for cartridges.. Another funny note is at the last scene when Tuco, Blondie, and Angel Eyes are in that awesome shootout. When the camera goes closeup on Angel Eyes gun and belt, you can see the percussion caps on the cylinder of his remmie, but has a belt full of cartridges , and they look like FMJ... __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

June 21, 2010, 12:24 AM	#16
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	...and cartridges in the belt loops. Still it's one a my favorites __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

June 21, 2010, 12:34 AM	#17
Rampant_Colt Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 1,478	Angel Eyes was able to tell it was Tuco doing the shooting by the perfect timing of his hand-assembled Colt-Army-Remington-Navy-conversion revolver At least they weren't packin' Colt SAA and 1892/'94 Winchesters like in most generic westerns.. __________________ member of an elite paramilitary organization: Eagle Scouts

June 21, 2010, 05:56 AM	#18
kadima Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Posts: 190	AFAIK all the weapons used in Sergio Leone's spaghetti western were Italian replicas, like the Uberti... ... we ended up making more Colts and Remingtons around Brescia than those actually made during the Civil War..... K. from Italy (nice post to start....)

June 21, 2010, 06:54 AM	#19
Scribe Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2005 Location: England Posts: 249	...I always thought he had the gun in the bubbles, not in the water.