new caliber... new problems

[Gitsum]

ok guys. You got me loading my 38 specials pretty good, now Im trying to set up the 9mm turret. (lee classic turret) The Lyman manual says OAL should be 1.110. I get them there (dummy rounds) and the first lube ring is jussssstt barely out of the case. I looked at my factory ammo and it measures 1.060 OAL and is just right on the lube ring. At 1.110, my rounds will cycle through my STI but not the CZ. At 1.060 the STI will still cycle and the CZ still wont. And Im not using the factory crimp die. what gives? Check out these pics. A factory round on either end.

[Roughedge]

The tips on the factory loads are smaller and that little bit makes it feed where the others wont. You can go in a little so they will cycle and you should be okay as long as you aint at the max load.

[buck460XVR]

Are you sure it's the OAL and not because there is still some flare at your case mouths? Have you measured the case mouths of your reloads to see if they match the factory rounds? It may be the chamber in your STI is looser than the CZ.

[Gitsum]

I see now it is definitely a FTF problem. Factory round case mouth measures .376 and mine are .378-.379. I have some other factory rounds that are .378 here also. I was thinking it was the crimp too, should I run the factory crimp die?

[CherokeeT]

My guess is that the CZ barrel has no leade from the chamber to the rifling. Whereas a 355 jacketed bullet will work, a 356 or larger cast bullet will not because it hits the rifling before fully seating. Try seating slightly deeeper for the CZ. This is assuming you have taper crimped the case mouth already; if not, then do so and try again.

Looking at the pic again, you need to taper crimp to about 376-378 and try again. Forget the Lee FC die.

[Gitsum]

OK... I started out with a little more taper crimp and the deeper seating depth and tried cycling. I kept applying more crimp until the case started to show a bulge. The whole way checking cycling and it just wont feed properly. What about deburring or sizing. These cast bullets are around .358. here are some pics of the taper crimps

[dacaur]

I had some gun show reloads that were using .357 dia bullets, and they would not chamber in my kel-tec PF9, but worked fine in my ruger p95.... 9mm bullets should be .355"... yours are .003" too big, and your case mouths are ..003" too big... see the connection? Some guns will work fine with out of spec ammo, some wont.

[kxkid]

[Gitsum]

Dont I want these cast bullets to be up to .002 OVER sized? Or is that only for the slugging diameter size? (I have not done that yet) I dont have a problem re-sizing if need be though.

[YARDDOG(1)]

Run em through your resizer without the decapper JMO ; )
Y/D

[Gitsum]

Really? I didnt know one could do that. I dont have to buy a lubrisizer?

[serf 'rett]

Where did you get the bullets? Reason I ask is you stated your bullet diameter is 0.358" which I think is normal 38 special (which you say you have been loading). The 9mm lead/plated bullet is normally about 0.356". You're not loading the oversized 38 special bullet into 9mm cases are you?

What is happening when you try to cycle your reloads in the CZ? Is the slide/bullet going into battery (closing tight)? How much of the case protrudes when compared to a factory round? Is the round chambering?

[primerman]

Looks like the ogive on the two end bullets is different than the ones in the middle. But then again 38 special bullets are different than 9mm bullets too.

[Gitsum]

These are 120 gn truncated cone cast bullets that I did myself. Thats why I was wondering about sizing.

The rounds seem to go in at an angle (up the feed ramp) and not straighten out to go into the chamber. If one does chamber, with light pressure the slide will not go all the way forward. When just releasing the slide freely, It is VERY difficult to get the round to eject. The OAL does not seem to affect any of this as I have tried from 1.110 (recommended) through 1.060 which is what the factory rounds measure.

[dacaur]

cover one with sharpie and chamber it, pull it out and look to see where it rubbed off. thats where your problem lies. my guess is your bullets are expanding the case too much or maybe even hitting before the case gets a chance, as below, remember a 9mm chamber is slightly tapered....

[serf 'rett]

Sounds like you’re having two different problems.

One is the bullet is hanging up on the feed ramp. Seems that some pistol have problems with different types of bullet profiles or cases. I had a Baby Eagle 40S&W which was having some feeding failures. I polished the feed ramp, which seemed to help. Bullet profile can also have an effect on feeding.

The bullet failing the go into the chamber could be a different issue. It almost sounds like the bullet or round could be oversized for the tighter CZ chamber. I don’t cast bullet so I’m a fish out of water in asking if you sized them after casting.

I was trying a different 9mm bullet a few months ago and had a problem. When trying my “normal” OAL of 1.120 inches, I found the new hollow back flat point bullet was hitting the lands on one of my pistols (but not the other one). It seemed the particular nose profile appeared to be a tad wider, causing the round to headspace off the lands instead of the case.

To check this, I took five empty cases, which had enough tension to lightly hold a new bullet, and carefully inserted the cases and new bullets into the barrel. This pushed the bullets into the cases. When the case/bullet combination was removed, I could then measure the overall length at which the bullet would contact the lands and then reduce the length by the amount of setback off the lands I wanted for that particular bullet in that particular pistol. Needless to say, I made quite a number of repetitions, 5 each for a total of 25, to establish at what length the new bullet touched the lands. Care must be taken because 1. the bullet tended to “stick” in the chamber and be pulled out of the case upon withdrawal and 2. it was easy to push the bullet further into the case while measuring with calipers.

Kinda country boy OAL development process. The sharpie marker method should also be tried.

[Gitsum]

These are both excellent ideas. I will try them and rather than try to pull the round out from the back, (and pulling the bullet out of the case) simply push it out from the front of the barrel with a dowel. Thanks guys.

[Gitsum]