SU-16 over an AR15

[jetinteriorguy]

I picked up a used SU-16 C a couple years ago for $500.00 and put about 400 rounds through it with no problems. Last year I sold it to a friend and used the money to by my Henry Big Boy Steel .357 mag, I don't miss the KT and love the Henry. I just couldn't seem to attach myself to the SU and absolutely love my AR better, it's just a much stronger more versatile gun and for me much more fun to mess around with. I will say I liked the foldability of the SU, but I would prefer my AR or even my Henry for a bug out gun. If my life depends on a rifle I want the durability and dependability that I know I can trust my or my loved ones lives on.

[johnwilliamson062]

I didn't hear round count mentioned in the first video, but in the second "less than 2000 rounds" is stated. Lets say that means somewhere between 1500-2000 rounds. I don't find that failure at all surprising. None of KTs products really seem designed for that sort of round count from what I have seen. I have seen the slide rails on their pistols also show some significant wear after that much shooting. I'm not sure what metals they are using, but they don't seem to wear well.
There are a whole lot of people who want a firearm and will never pass 1000 rounds. I have uses for firearms that are otherwise well designed, priced in the KT range, and I limit to 1000 rounds over the span of their use.

[Inazone]

I have an SU-16B with the folder "C" stock as well. Bought it before getting bit by the AR bug. Aside from what I found to be horrible iron sights, I do like the SU, but take away the shared cartridge and mags, and there's really not much that warrants direct comparison to an AR, not in my experience anyway. To be fair, I haven't tried a polymer AR, so I don't know if there's a drastic difference in weight or overall feel, but the SU is definitely lighter, for better or worse.

[tahunua001]

I'm sure I'm the minority, but I absolutely prefer an SU-16 over an AR-15.

well good on you, like would be pretty boring if everyone liked the same stuff.

[Skarekrow88]

Never

[chunky_lover]

su16 was high on my list to get one day, still will get one
but when I saw the ares scr thats what really caught my attention and immediately bought one. I think they may be $200 more then a new kel tec

sure it doesnt fold up, but the upper can be removed like any ar
so you can make it more compact

and you have almost every ar upper available to use, or use for parts
cant really say that with the kel tec

and im sure the ares is heavier but going from the safe to the range not really an issue


except for the ar location mag release, its one of my favorites to operate
and seems just as accurate

[johnwilliamson062]

The ares lower is $470 from buds.
Complete rifles $850.
SU's start at $475 for the complete rifle and $540 for the C variant.
Quite a price difference.
I just saw the su-22 is only $257.

[chunky_lover]

sure, but you cant compare the kel tec to the ares price wise
I would compare how one can have almost an entire ar15 parts catalog to mod
or a very very small parts catalog for the keltec

plus its possible for some to have spare uppers, or to buy or build a cheap used upper to complete an ares lower

[chris in va]

Note that the picture is from 2007. I would hope KelTec has 'fixed the glitch' almost ten years later.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by RoyalWe

Let's be serious, the AR is a military platform designed to perform under the conditions encountered on the battlefield (and it handles these conditions rather poorly I might add)

My experience carrying an M16 during my four years in the Marine Corps infantry is that it's an extremely reliable and durable rifle, even in harsh conditions such as sand and salt water. I've seen the rifle dropped, thrown, and smashed against things with no issues. That's why I love the platform so much and why I've continued to own at least one version of the rifle ever since I got out. If I had to pick any rifle to carry into battle today, it would be a high-quality AR variant made by a company such as Colt, LMT, BCM, etc.

[USMC 77-81]

To tag on Theo, the AR can be wonderfully accurate even with commercial ammo.

1st Marine division, 3rd Marines

[johnwilliamson062]

sure, but you cant compare the kel tec to the ares price wise
I would compare how one can have almost an entire ar15 parts catalog to mod

How else do you compare a product in a capitalist society?
But isn't that what this thread s about? A Su-16 or a low-end AR for most people, not the people who already have 10 ARs with a few extra uppers laying around? A $500 AR with a cheap fixed stock or Tapco collapsible?

If we are going to compare a $475 rifle $800-1200 rifles then I don't see there being much point to the thread.

[agtman]

Let's see, ... how to put this ...

If you try, you can make any quality AR build shorter, smaller, or certainly lighter in weight, all by choosing how you set it up.

The SU-16 has a folding feature to it, but is otherwise a "survivalist's" gimmick gun that's seriously hard to make not junk.

[chunky_lover]

the folding on a su16 could be a weak area
the floppy handguard that turns into a bipod is a flimsy thing to hold onto
the hollow stock to hold 2 mags will make it lighter if you dont store mags in it, but also not too strong if your crushing in skulls

but it is piston driven, and lightweight


this is how I would compare a product to something else not only going off price

the kel tec is different then a standard configured ar15 only thing similar is the magazine and caliber

[USMC 77-81]

Actually the SU 16 has more in common with the AR than just the mag and cartridge, it also utilizes an AR bolt (the carrier is KT proprietary), firing pin and cam pin. As stated in my original response, the SU 16 is my grab and go gun when I'm out on the ATV and when I'm out in the woods just walking around. It resides behind the seat of my truck (we still do that around here) so I always have a .223 autoloader with me. I have more robust guns if I feel the need. This thread has generated more response than I thought it would.

1st Marine division, 3rd Marines

[AK103K]

It resides behind the seat of my truck (we still do that around here) so I always have a .223 autoloader with me.

I think thats the primary idea behind the SU16. Its meant to be there, if and when you might need it, but not really get used much.

[johnwilliamson062]

I think thats the primary idea behind the SU16. Its meant to be there, if and when you might need it, but not really get used much.

Exactly. At a price below a factory complete AR.

[agtman]

At a price below a factory complete AR.

You can hand-build an AR to your personal specs or needs, if you search around for quality components, for less than the cost of most top tier factory ARs, the specs of which are a take-it-or-leave-it proposition out of the box.

[Noxas]

I dont know how any of you can compare the su-16 to a AR-15 especially considering the price tags attached to a good quality AR from a well trusted company and then saying oh you can build this or that for the same price as the su16 and its gonna be better more reliable isn't true you get what you pay for and every gun make,model,platform has had and will have critical failures one of the key features in my opinion is the life time warranty that comes with the su16 so even if it blows up in your face and takes your arm with it at least Kel-Tec will replace your rifle so you won't be left with 1 arm and a hunk of scrap metal and polymer. can you say the same thing about that AR you built your self from misc parts and brands? And as for combat ready and reliable let's face it at the end of the day thats a mute point because if your in a combat situation odds are you have a government issued rifled and again can't compare a civilian model weapon to a military issued weapon that was designed from top to bottom start to finish for war that's like compairing a Disney cruise ship to a navy cruiser. I bought my su16 simply because it was different and imho its in a class of rifle all by itself

[turtlehead]

OK. I quit.

[peggysue]

A SU-16 is a more politically correct rifle in these times of anti-AR-15 times. This is just an opinion. I have many AR 15s.

[stagpanther]

pass the cheese please. : )

[Old Bill Dibble]

I don't know how an SU-16 is more politically correct these days. I'd be shocked if a journalist or pol could tell the difference between the two. In fact the SU-16 might get more flack for being "just like an Ar-15 designed to be concealed" or some such nonsense.

I think if the SU-16 were what is was supposed to (A $250 rifle) it would be a nice shooter within it's limitations. At twice the price it compares badly.

[Old Bill Dibble]

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[MarkCO]

I really like KelTec in general, but IMHO, the SU16 is a novelty item. KelTec has some really good designs and a few not so much. I owned one for a while and well, no. I do own three other KelTecs and they are great.

Even in the same price point, there are better options than the SU16. No way I would take a SU16 over an AR pattern. There are take-down and folding stock ARs too. But if you want a fold up SD/backpack gun, the Sub2000 is a much better option. There are also several manually fed rifles that use AR magazines, and frankly I would take one of those over the SU16.