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Old April 11, 2011, 11:59 AM   #26
Longdayjake
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I should also mention that if you are wanting to shoot factory ammo, only the SSA tactical loads will shoot the 6.8 bullets faster than the 6.5 factory loads.

Does anyone know of another ammo manufacturer for the 6.8 that makes SPCII loads (don't know much about it since I only reload)?
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Old April 11, 2011, 12:37 PM   #27
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Nice suggestions, but wildcats not available on the open market don't seem to be the OP's intent. Both the 6.8 and 6.5 at least have industry support and parts on the shelf, today.
I suggested the 6X45 over the 6X47 because Cor-Bon is making ammunition for it. You can order it online which is going to be the best bet anyway for the Grendel and 6.8 SPC as well. Midway USA doesn’t have any in stock right now, but I'd give the 80 grain TSX a try for deer hunting.

Les Baer's web site states Black Hill's is supposed to start making the cartridge in three different weights as well. Then there are places like Northwest CP that make ammunition at a reasonable rate as well. Plus if a guy wanted to get into hand loading this would make for a very easy cartridge to start with.
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Old April 11, 2011, 03:40 PM   #28
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Infact at very close ranges (sub 25 yards) the 6.8 would be superior, not necessarily because of knock down power, but because of lack of recoil. The great thing about the 223/556 is the recoil is so low that you can get back on target very fast for multiple shots. I believe the same is true for the 6.8.
My experience is that they both kick about the same. I personally can't tell much difference between the two and a 5.56. Its so little recoil that its almost negligible.

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Short fat case, long bullets in a smaller diameter carry slightly less energy,even from longer barrels, but the bullet carries it further due to it's aerodynamic efficiency. That starts showing results, but it's mostly beyond combat ranges.
This isn't true in most cases. If you are talking about bullets of the same weight then yeah a bullet going faster will carry more energy. However, the Grendel usually uses heavier bullets than the 6.8 which carry and maintain the energy for quite a while. Energy is affected by both mass and velocity. This means that lighter bullets going very fast can often be matched by heavy bullets going considerably slower. Or you can look at it the other way. If you want to match the energy of a heavy bullet but use a smaller bullet, you just have to send it faster. So, the 6.8 uses somewhat lighter bullets (85-110) grain bullets and shoots them from 3000-2600 fps. The Grendel uses 95-140 grain bullets and shoots them from 2900-2300 fps. In the end, the performance is going to be near identical depending on what bullet you use.
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Old April 11, 2011, 03:47 PM   #29
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the recoil is so low that you can get back on target very fast for multiple shots
And here I thought the idead was 1 well placed shot, and not to shoot yoour dinner to pieces......
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Old April 11, 2011, 03:55 PM   #30
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And here I thought the idead was 1 well placed shot, and not to shoot yoour dinner to pieces......
This would definately be ideal. When I shot that elk I knew it was a bad shot and I wanted to take another shot at her. I had enough time to take 3 or more shots at her before she got to the top of the adjacent hill, but she was mixed in with the rest of the herd. I couldn't positively identify her (very low light) and I didn't want to end up shooting two elk. So, the Grendel has low enough recoil that you can take multiple shots if you need to but hunting conditions don't always allow it.
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Old April 11, 2011, 05:16 PM   #31
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Longdayjake-- it happens, I have muffed a couple shots myself, it's what you do after that counts. Hunt long enough and it happens to all of us, well most of us, there are always a few that are lucky or perfect.
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Old April 11, 2011, 06:22 PM   #32
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me:
Quote:
the recoil is so low that you can get back on target very fast for multiple shots
jimbob86:
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And here I thought the idead was 1 well placed shot, and not to shoot yoour dinner to pieces......
LOL. True. I didn't make myself very clear. I was making a case for how the 6.8 would be a strong contender for a tactical rifle at short range. i.e. If you were in urban warfare or on a S.W.A.T. team or something. I know this is not what the OP's intentions are so I did get off tangent a little. I was just trying to explain the 6.8's strong points. I do believe it's a great round. And it packs quite a punch. But so does the 6.5G and I love mine.

me:
Quote:
Infact at very close ranges (sub 25 yards) the 6.8 would be superior, not necessarily because of knock down power, but because of lack of recoil. The great thing about the 223/556 is the recoil is so low that you can get back on target very fast for multiple shots. I believe the same is true for the 6.8.
Longdayjake:
Quote:
My experience is that they both kick about the same. I personally can't tell much difference between the two and a 5.56. Its so little recoil that its almost negligible.
Again I agree the recoil is very close but the 6.5 does kick a little more. At close range you can shoot the .223/5.56 on full auto and stay on target. I think I would have a hard time staying on target with my 16" tactical in Grendel on full auto. Again I know the OP's intentions are for hunting so this is extra info that the OP may deem not needed. I was just trying to explain my views on each round (6.8 vs 6.5G) and I probably did a poor job of it. I would say the difference in recoil for the purpose of hunting is negligable.
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Old April 11, 2011, 08:24 PM   #33
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I had given some thought to buying a 6.8 bolt action, for a deer rifle for my recoil shy daughter ...... I already load for .270 WIN, though the 100 and 110 grain varmint bullets may not work very well ...... then again, they were designed to come apart at .270 WIN velocities ..... at 6.8 speeds, they may hold together better........ what do you guys think?

Then again, it being a bolt action, I could have them put a long throat in it, and just launch 130 grain ballistic tips ...... just thinking out loud....
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Old April 11, 2011, 08:34 PM   #34
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Jinbob86, for 6.8spc use the Nosler 110 Accubond or Barnes 95gr TTSX
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Old April 11, 2011, 08:51 PM   #35
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I say the 6.8 SPC is better, hands down.
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Old April 11, 2011, 11:09 PM   #36
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I personally think that 6.8 makes a great AR caliber but a pretty sad bolt action.
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Old April 11, 2011, 11:30 PM   #37
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If you have a .270, just use that. I use Corelokt 130 gr ammo. Works just fine, not as sexyhighspeedlowdrag as this other stuff but it has been around long enough to have been proven effective.
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Old April 12, 2011, 12:07 AM   #38
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Lot of great info and discussion here guys, I appreciate all the input. At the moment im starting to lean towards the 6.8 SPC. Now, generally speaking will any manufacturers upper mate up positively with my lower? or are there any combinations i should avoid? For the record my AR-15 is a SR-556, for which ruger does make a 6.8 SPC upper for, but im not opposed to mixing and matching manufacturers as long as its perfectly reasonable to do so.
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Old April 12, 2011, 06:44 AM   #39
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Madball, If you get a 6.8, make sure it has a SPC2 chamber and 1:11-1:12 twist with 3-5 grooves. Each one of those options will allow a reduction in pressure and an increase in velocity. DO NOT GET THE RUGER 6.8, they use a SAAMI chamber and 1:10 6 groove barrel.

ARperformance or Bison Armory are the best options available in 6.8, and yes any AR15 upper will work on any AR15 lower.
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Old April 12, 2011, 09:34 AM   #40
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For once I agree with Bedlamite. The Ruger is indeed chambered for the anemic SPCI. Any other upper will fit on your lower. ARperformance is probably your best bet.
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Old April 12, 2011, 12:20 PM   #41
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I forgot to mention (though it is probably a moot point by now) that there is supposedly going to be some steel cased 6.5 grendel coming on the market that will be priced similarly to 7.62x39 steel cased stuff. Obviously it won't be premium ammunition, but at least it will be something to practice with.
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Old April 12, 2011, 12:53 PM   #42
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I personally think that 6.8 makes a great AR caliber but a pretty sad bolt action.
What would be sad about a hyper efficient cartridge delivering 1,000+ ft. lbs of energy to 300 yards with a bullet that will still expand when it gets there, yet will not come apart at close range, with a bullet that I already have in stock? I am thinking the 130 gr SGK launched at 2300 f/sec could be done in a 20-22"" barrelled youth scaled bolt gun, and done without generating recoil that daughter Jac would find ...... problematic. She was fine with a Marlin 30/30 pushing a 150 gr bullet @2200....

Quote:
If you have a .270, just use that. I use Corelokt 130 gr ammo. Works just fine, not as sexyhighspeedlowdrag as this other stuff but it has been around long enough to have been proven effective.
Oh, I have a couple of .270's ...... the kids (especially 12 y.o. Jac, who is a distance runner and built like a greyhound!) find them overly large and heavy..... and I'm kind of averse to down loading a .270 down to 2300 ...... seems like a lot of empty space in that big case (bad ju-ju?) ...... then there's the issue of 4 or 5 different loads for the same caliber, but different guns AND for different shooters........ I already downloaded some 130's for Eldest (to 2800 f/sec) last fall...... THIS year I want MY RIFLE back!
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Old April 12, 2011, 12:55 PM   #43
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....... Or I could just say to hell with it, and start stocking yet another bullet diameter, and get Jac a .243 or .260 .........
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Old April 12, 2011, 02:27 PM   #44
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Or I could just say to hell with it, and start stocking yet another bullet diameter, and get Jac a .243 or .260 .........
This is what I would do.

For me the reason that a 6.8 spcII is a poor bolt action gun is because the chamber is designed for reliability and velocity but not for accuracy. I like my bolt guns to be hyper accurate. Especially if I am going to go through the trouble to rebarrel an action. If you are just wanting to get something handy for your kids to use then there are plenty of other calibers that you won't have to get a special barrel for that will work just as well or better. .243 and .260 are good examples. Though they aren't as effecient from a 16" barrel they will probably get you more performance.
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Old April 13, 2011, 05:24 AM   #45
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http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...m-the-old-site

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...ld-site-Part-2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5_mm_Grendel
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Old April 13, 2011, 07:25 AM   #46
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For me the reason that a 6.8 spcII is a poor bolt action gun is because the chamber is designed for reliability and velocity but not for accuracy.
Interesting, because sub MOA is easy to get with the 6.8.
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Old April 13, 2011, 08:07 AM   #47
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6.8 not accurate?

Take a look,,, and then try to tell me it's not accurate.

This is from a target I was zeroing a new rear sight on. 10 shots fired at 100 yards. The first 4 were low and right. I clicked up and left 6 times with 6 shots.
The 6th one touched the right lower edge of the square.

My friend Bob Ellis was on the spotting scope and he told me "come up one and left one, and shoot me a group"
I did as he said, and fired the last 4 rounds.

Seems pretty accurate to me.....

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Old April 13, 2011, 10:00 AM   #48
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My hell guys. All I said was that the chamber is not designed for high accuracy. I also said that some people do get high good accuracy from them. BUT the chamber of the SPCII is not one that leads to high accuracy. I didn't just make this up. I got it from the 6.8 forums.

Read post number 6 on this link. (written by a popular manufacturer of 6.8 stuff)

http://68forums.com/forums/showthrea...l=1#post183239
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Old April 13, 2011, 04:11 PM   #49
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Oh it's not a "counter attack" LongdayJake


Just showing the way things are with one of the 6.8s I have made. I have built about 30 of them.
Some have only shot about 1 MOA or a bit over, , but a few like the one that I shot the above group with, shoot as well as about any rifle you can find.
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Old April 15, 2011, 08:26 AM   #50
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It's not that a 6.8SPC gun can't be accurate. I spent good money getting ARP's barrel and expect it.

Longdayjake is referring to how the case diameter, shoulder angle, bullet length, and overall length can be selected to make a highly accurate caliber. Some features are better at it than others. The 6.8SPC designers deliberately chose not to include them because they were looking for more POWER from a 14.5" milspec 2MOA gun. Not setting a 600m record for smallest group.

A short fat case, steep shoulder, and long bullet, even in the same overall length, will be inherently more accurate - but you have to shoot it at extreme ranges to take advantage of it, much less see it. The difference is the BC, which means the bullet loses less energy over longer distances, and takes longer to go subsonic and tumble. Just a matter of what you prioritize in the features you select. That's what the inventor of the PPC case design did, and he's earned a trophy case of collective awards that many others pulled the trigger on.

Overall, the accurizing of either gun in it's caliber is about the same. Optic, furniture, and trigger varies little among the precision crowd. Without the caliber engraved on the port cover, you might not be able to see any difference. Sighted in at the same distance, most of the trajectory difference is covered with a candy wrapper.

Longday shoots both calibers, it's an informed opinion.
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