$200 box of primers!!!!!!!! - Page 2

Reloadron · March 4, 2021, 05:58 PM

Thank you Unclenick for a most informative post. Hopefully many will take to heart what you have well covered. One only need look at the market (DJIA) to see where this is all going.

Thanks again for sharing some actual data.

Ron

hounddawg · March 4, 2021, 06:28 PM

make friends at your LGS. Tuesday I got a call from the owner of one of our local stores I have been hanging at every couple of weeks. He sold me 2K of Federal SRP's at $50 plus tax per thousand. His entire shipment was sold to locals that had been frequenting his store, they never hit the shelves

dahermit · March 4, 2021, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordvader

The last gun show I went too a few days ago were going for $400 per case of 1000. Which is ridiculous.

Was that the price the vender's had listed or were they actually selling for that much?

Logs · March 4, 2021, 07:07 PM

"That's a pretty picture right there. Even prettier sitting on your shelf I bet ."

I have no use for them since I don't reload. I did pick up some 55 Grain Sig 243 ammo for $30 a box.

tangolima · March 4, 2021, 08:50 PM

True story. During the last shortage, I saw an ad on our club's newsletter. CCI large rifle primers, 2 sleeves for $12. 6 cents a primer was double the normal price. Primers were also nowhere to be found. Out of desperation I called and setup a time to pick up at the guy's home. But strangely he asked whether I was serious. Well, I was. When I handed him the $12, he looked at me and said the primers were for $120!

I showed him the newsletter. It was clearly printed on it $12. $120 for 200 primers was so silly that the editor must have thought it was typo and changed it to $12. Compared to bad, $200 for 1,000 primers doesn't sound too bad.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

5whiskey · March 4, 2021, 11:00 PM

I too fear this will last quite a long time for a number of reasons. Most of them logistic as UncleNick pointed out (though I wasn’t aware of those specific issues, that is disheartening as it will only compound the problem).

We have more gun owners now than ever before. A lot more. The big boys aren’t expanding manufacturing facilities, they’re just double timing existing plants. All primers and most powder goes to factory ammo manufacturers. What that essentially tells me is we will have to see factory ammo pricing/availability largely return to sane levels before we ever see much of any components availability for reloading other than a smattering here and there. The thing is, the millions of new gun owners have shifted the demand curve I’m afraid. After the last glut when ammo manufacturers got burned by expansion and demand subsequently falling off the cliff, they are hesitant to expand right now for what’s viewed as a temporary run on ammo. I’m personally not so sure it’s temporary. Certainly we probably won’t hold this demand level forever, but I don’t see it going back to even close to where it was before.

And with shipping as it is, raw materials are probably a hangup as well. While I haven’t heard of the federal plant shutting down for lack of materials, I bet they’ve been low enough to be concerned at least once or twice. Federal may be dying to ramp up a new facility as they see a long term demand increase, but material availability may be so weak a new factory couldn’t be supported by current supplies. I don’t know any of this for certain, I’m mostly just proposing likely logistic problems.

Coronavirus has showed the weakness of the “just in time” supply chain in a number of areas. Thank goodness I stocked up on components last April I would be nearly out now. What I would bet a hundred bucks on, and I’m not a gambling man, is that will not see the bottom drop out in a few months. We may see some easing, possibly, but nothing like price/availability of 2019. Heck I dare say nothing like price or availability of 2009, as bad as that was. I think we all agree this one is significantly worse.

Constrictor · March 6, 2021, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prof Young

Local on-line auction closed yesterday. Several "bricks" of small pistol primers went for $200 plus each.

RIDICULOUS!

But if people are willing to pay . . . .

Life is good. (A touch crazy at times too.)

Prof Young

I sold a bunch of primers for $200/1000 this morning. Bought a nice vintage model 29 with the profits.

Reloadron · March 7, 2021, 08:24 AM

Quote:

I sold a bunch of primers for $200/1000 this morning. Bought a nice vintage model 29 with the profits.

Maybe I should sell some. At $200 per thousand I would part with 5,000 SPP or LR for a grand. I sold off 43 Lbs of powder at $12 Lb.

Ron

recoil junky · March 7, 2021, 10:32 AM

I had read about what Nick was reporting as well. Containers from/to the U.S. sitting on the dock "lost" for weeks violates International Trade Federation policy yet countries were still doing it. It's a political thing.

As to civilian reloading supplies, it's the gougers out to make a buck and panicked buyers that are inflating the cost. We've all seen the videos from major manufacturers CEO's showing they are "pumping out" product as fast as humanly possible which I believe to be true. With only one domestic carrier (UPS) willing to ship primers and powder to the individual buyer the bottleneck is being exacerbated ten fold at this time.

RJ

Average Joe · March 7, 2021, 11:03 AM

Pretty soon, they will give you a free gun with every purchase of a box of primers.

BCR1 · March 8, 2021, 03:03 AM

Hopefully, the Ginex primer pre-sell going on produces positive results and product actually arrives. Mixed reviews on the quality but they have to be better than trying to re-arm fired ones.

Bill

Maxwell Haus · March 8, 2021, 05:44 AM

I have been using the Ginex large rifle primer , no issues at all . I really like them, they are a tight fit which works great in used brass where the primers pockets are getting a bit
loose .

surveyor · March 9, 2021, 12:19 AM

There were 3 bokes cci 450's (3k) at the LGS that were priced $130/k, someone came in looking for mil primers and wondering if they would work. I told him difference between them and mil primers was the anvil, and I use the 450's in match loads..
They were sold before I left..

**44 AMP** · March 9, 2021, 01:32 AM

Some years back, Remington has some electrically fired ammo and guns to shoot it. Didn't sell well. Perhaps it is time someone revisits that idea??

Electrically fired ammunition has been in use in artillery since WWII. It's never been widespread in small arms ammo, but, perhaps now???

Sure would change the lock time a bit...

And, I think it would settle the whole "case driven forward by the firing pin" issue, as well...

Of course, the down side would be we'll still have shortages, they'll just be shortages of electrically primed CASES, not percussion primers...

TruthTellers · March 9, 2021, 07:46 AM

Why didn't you buy any? Those may be the last bricks of primers ever made... worth every Benjamin.

**Unclenick** · March 9, 2021, 01:46 PM

A lot of primers from abroad are tight. The Tula primers for example. CCI was like that before they revamped their primer line in 1989. I could not get my Dillon Square Deal to seat the old ones to flush with my case heads no matter how hard I tried. It's not a problem now, though. It turns out it was due to burrs on the lips of the primer cups. CCI figured out how to eliminate them.

This 2017 article suggests Ginex had a problem with size early on, though.

Maxwell Haus · March 10, 2021, 05:04 PM

From that same thread . All I can say is folks can speculate all they want, unless you try them you have no clue.

Quote:

I ran a side by side comparison between Ginex and Wolf LR primers. In my 284 Shehane, they produced identical groups and velocity. I hope this helps,

stagpanther · March 10, 2021, 05:09 PM

Quote:

A lot of primers from abroad are tight.

I bought several thousand Ginex as an emergency back-up--they are in fact tight--and deep, but I believe they were made to be useable in Nato ammo.

**Unclenick** · March 10, 2021, 06:33 PM

I still have two slips of 5,000 of the tight Tula primers, both in the NATO spec format, and they fit, but they challenge my thumb using a hand tool to try to get them to reconsolidate the recommended -0.003". That said, they also produce the smallest velocity SD's I've ever got out of a Garand. Numbers between 5 and 10 fps with Varget and the last of my old Brigadier 4065 with the 175-grain SMK bullets. The Russians do know how to make a consistent performing primer.

THEWELSHM · March 10, 2021, 10:45 PM

I'm dropping of 1000 CCI small primers to a buddy tomorrow, he is trading me some .22 lr and an IOU. Not leaving a mate hanging in these times. I did score 8lbs of 2200 this week though

thewelshm

Reloadron · March 11, 2021, 08:37 AM

Thinking about dropping off 5,000 LR at my friends shop. Seller & Bellot primers and I have more than I'll ever use. He can put them out on consignment. No clue what I'll ask on them but I will tell him to sell in lots of 1,000 only.

Ron

Maxwell Haus · March 11, 2021, 10:29 AM

My son has a customer that just bought primers online . Seller did not have the right credentials , they were shipped air mail . They were found, he is now in some trouble, not sure about seller . Same seller shipped him powder by air, that made it through OK . Not sure what happens from here , but those high priced primers just got more expensive .

Reloadron · March 11, 2021, 05:58 PM

Quote:

My son has a customer that just bought primers online . Seller did not have the right credentials , they were shipped air mail . They were found, he is now in some trouble, not sure about seller . Same seller shipped him powder by air, that made it through OK . Not sure what happens from here , but those high priced primers just got more expensive .

Bound to happen. Dozens of primers being sold online person to person and we know all of these sellers are not qualified to ship HAZMAT. The best thing your son's customer can do is plea ignorance and he was just on the innocent receiving end. Good luck on that. The person shipping them has real problems. Plenty of packages USPS are subject to X-Ray and pretty sure at this point the feds know what to look for. Oh well.

Anything I sell powder or primers is face to face cash.

Ron

**44 AMP** · March 12, 2021, 01:31 AM

Quote:

they were shipped air mail . They were found, he is now in some trouble, not sure about seller . Same seller shipped him powder by air, that made it through OK .

I don't see how someone on the receiving end can be held responsible for the shipper violating shipment rules. CFR1910.xxx covers hazardous material shipment, including placarding, packaging, container spacing spill protection, and many other things. Smokeless powder and primers are in different classes for shipment, and so have different rules, including what can, and cannot be shipped by air.

Lots of interesting facts buried in those thick regulation books.

The SHIPPER is responsible for seeing those rules are followed, not the recipient of the shipment.

and as a general rule, smokeless powder is classed as a flammable solid, not an explosive. Primers are explosives.

Maxwell Haus · March 12, 2021, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

I don't see how someone on the receiving end can be held responsible for the shipper violating shipment rules. CFR1910.xxx covers hazardous material shipment, including placarding, packaging, container spacing spill protection, and many other things. Smokeless powder and primers are in different classes for shipment, and so have different rules, including what can, and cannot be shipped by air.

Lots of interesting facts buried in those thick regulation books.

The SHIPPER is responsible for seeing those rules are followed, not the recipient of the shipment.

and as a general rule, smokeless powder is classed as a flammable solid, not an explosive. Primers are explosives.

Speculate all you want . The receiver received a penalty already . FACT

March 4, 2021, 06:28 PM	#27
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	make friends at your LGS. Tuesday I got a call from the owner of one of our local stores I have been hanging at every couple of weeks. He sold me 2K of Federal SRP's at $50 plus tax per thousand. His entire shipment was sold to locals that had been frequenting his store, they never hit the shelves __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

March 4, 2021, 07:07 PM	#29
Logs Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 1999 Location: BLUEGRASS STATE KY USA Posts: 1,780	"That's a pretty picture right there. Even prettier sitting on your shelf I bet ." I have no use for them since I don't reload. I did pick up some 55 Grain Sig 243 ammo for $30 a box. __________________ NRA LIFE MEMBER

March 4, 2021, 11:00 PM	#31
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,667	I too fear this will last quite a long time for a number of reasons. Most of them logistic as UncleNick pointed out (though I wasn’t aware of those specific issues, that is disheartening as it will only compound the problem). We have more gun owners now than ever before. A lot more. The big boys aren’t expanding manufacturing facilities, they’re just double timing existing plants. All primers and most powder goes to factory ammo manufacturers. What that essentially tells me is we will have to see factory ammo pricing/availability largely return to sane levels before we ever see much of any components availability for reloading other than a smattering here and there. The thing is, the millions of new gun owners have shifted the demand curve I’m afraid. After the last glut when ammo manufacturers got burned by expansion and demand subsequently falling off the cliff, they are hesitant to expand right now for what’s viewed as a temporary run on ammo. I’m personally not so sure it’s temporary. Certainly we probably won’t hold this demand level forever, but I don’t see it going back to even close to where it was before. And with shipping as it is, raw materials are probably a hangup as well. While I haven’t heard of the federal plant shutting down for lack of materials, I bet they’ve been low enough to be concerned at least once or twice. Federal may be dying to ramp up a new facility as they see a long term demand increase, but material availability may be so weak a new factory couldn’t be supported by current supplies. I don’t know any of this for certain, I’m mostly just proposing likely logistic problems. Coronavirus has showed the weakness of the “just in time” supply chain in a number of areas. Thank goodness I stocked up on components last April I would be nearly out now. What I would bet a hundred bucks on, and I’m not a gambling man, is that will not see the bottom drop out in a few months. We may see some easing, possibly, but nothing like price/availability of 2019. Heck I dare say nothing like price or availability of 2009, as bad as that was. I think we all agree this one is significantly worse. __________________ Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946 Last edited by 5whiskey; March 4, 2021 at 11:05 PM.

March 9, 2021, 12:19 AM	#38
surveyor Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2007 Posts: 771	There were 3 bokes cci 450's (3k) at the LGS that were priced $130/k, someone came in looking for mil primers and wondering if they would work. I told him difference between them and mil primers was the anvil, and I use the 450's in match loads.. They were sold before I left.. Last edited by surveyor; March 9, 2021 at 12:25 AM.

March 9, 2021, 01:32 AM	#39
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,923	Some years back, Remington has some electrically fired ammo and guns to shoot it. Didn't sell well. Perhaps it is time someone revisits that idea?? Electrically fired ammunition has been in use in artillery since WWII. It's never been widespread in small arms ammo, but, perhaps now??? Sure would change the lock time a bit... And, I think it would settle the whole "case driven forward by the firing pin" issue, as well... Of course, the down side would be we'll still have shortages, they'll just be shortages of electrically primed CASES, not percussion primers... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

March 4, 2021, 05:58 PM	#26
Reloadron Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2016 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs Posts: 1,750	Thank you Unclenick for a most informative post. Hopefully many will take to heart what you have well covered. One only need look at the market (DJIA) to see where this is all going. Thanks again for sharing some actual data. Ron

March 4, 2021, 08:50 PM	#30
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,879	True story. During the last shortage, I saw an ad on our club's newsletter. CCI large rifle primers, 2 sleeves for $12. 6 cents a primer was double the normal price. Primers were also nowhere to be found. Out of desperation I called and setup a time to pick up at the guy's home. But strangely he asked whether I was serious. Well, I was. When I handed him the $12, he looked at me and said the primers were for $120! I showed him the newsletter. It was clearly printed on it $12. $120 for 200 primers was so silly that the editor must have thought it was typo and changed it to $12. Compared to bad, $200 for 1,000 primers doesn't sound too bad. -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

March 7, 2021, 10:32 AM	#34
recoil junky Member Join Date: June 20, 2014 Location: TheElkHuntingCapitol CraigCO Posts: 60	I had read about what Nick was reporting as well. Containers from/to the U.S. sitting on the dock "lost" for weeks violates International Trade Federation policy yet countries were still doing it. It's a political thing. As to civilian reloading supplies, it's the gougers out to make a buck and panicked buyers that are inflating the cost. We've all seen the videos from major manufacturers CEO's showing they are "pumping out" product as fast as humanly possible which I believe to be true. With only one domestic carrier (UPS) willing to ship primers and powder to the individual buyer the bottleneck is being exacerbated ten fold at this time. RJ

March 7, 2021, 11:03 AM	#35
Average Joe Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2005 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,325	Pretty soon, they will give you a free gun with every purchase of a box of primers.

March 8, 2021, 03:03 AM	#36
BCR1 member Join Date: January 25, 2021 Location: Chattanooga Posts: 108	Hopefully, the Ginex primer pre-sell going on produces positive results and product actually arrives. Mixed reviews on the quality but they have to be better than trying to re-arm fired ones. Bill

March 8, 2021, 05:44 AM	#37
Maxwell Haus member Join Date: December 14, 2016 Posts: 113	I have been using the Ginex large rifle primer , no issues at all . I really like them, they are a tight fit which works great in used brass where the primers pockets are getting a bit loose .

March 9, 2021, 07:46 AM	#40
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,890	Why didn't you buy any? Those may be the last bricks of primers ever made... worth every Benjamin. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

March 9, 2021, 01:46 PM	#41
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,093	A lot of primers from abroad are tight. The Tula primers for example. CCI was like that before they revamped their primer line in 1989. I could not get my Dillon Square Deal to seat the old ones to flush with my case heads no matter how hard I tried. It's not a problem now, though. It turns out it was due to burrs on the lips of the primer cups. CCI figured out how to eliminate them. This 2017 article suggests Ginex had a problem with size early on, though. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 10, 2021, 06:33 PM	#44
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,093	I still have two slips of 5,000 of the tight Tula primers, both in the NATO spec format, and they fit, but they challenge my thumb using a hand tool to try to get them to reconsolidate the recommended -0.003". That said, they also produce the smallest velocity SD's I've ever got out of a Garand. Numbers between 5 and 10 fps with Varget and the last of my old Brigadier 4065 with the 175-grain SMK bullets. The Russians do know how to make a consistent performing primer. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 10, 2021, 10:45 PM	#45
THEWELSHM Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2015 Location: Brandon Fl Posts: 237	I'm dropping of 1000 CCI small primers to a buddy tomorrow, he is trading me some .22 lr and an IOU. Not leaving a mate hanging in these times. I did score 8lbs of 2200 this week though thewelshm

March 11, 2021, 08:37 AM	#46
Reloadron Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2016 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs Posts: 1,750	Thinking about dropping off 5,000 LR at my friends shop. Seller & Bellot primers and I have more than I'll ever use. He can put them out on consignment. No clue what I'll ask on them but I will tell him to sell in lots of 1,000 only. Ron

March 11, 2021, 10:29 AM	#47
Maxwell Haus member Join Date: December 14, 2016 Posts: 113	My son has a customer that just bought primers online . Seller did not have the right credentials , they were shipped air mail . They were found, he is now in some trouble, not sure about seller . Same seller shipped him powder by air, that made it through OK . Not sure what happens from here , but those high priced primers just got more expensive .