Highly disappointed and bummed out!!

[roy reali]

There are some folks here that want to ban certain types of hunting. They base their position on the unnecessary suffering of animals caused by certain hunting methods. I want to add another ban to the list.

I enjoy bird hunting. But I must admit that I occasionally pick up a downed bird that wasn't exactly dead. Yes, I did dispatch the thing quickly, but it did suffer. Not only that, I have on rare occasions not been able to find my quarry. This was not due to any lack of effort on my part, the bird was just not to be retrieved. Now, if the bird was alive but wounded, its suffering might continue for an extended period of time.

I know of other bird hunter with similar experiences. If you are a bird hunter, lost or crippled birds are probably not unheard of either.

Therefore, to alleviate bird suffering, all bird hunting with shotguns needs to be banned. Of course, hunting them with centerifire rifles should be allowed. After all, not many birds would suffer much from a well placed shot from a .243 or a .30-30. The quality of the table fare might suffer, but at least our feathered friends won't!

[publius]

Glad you ended the animal's suffering. As an avid bowhunter, it is a humane method of taking animals, there are just limitations you have to recognize. you should be proficient and only take perfect close shots. Another thing that would help very much is anectine. This is a poision that will stop the heart in sufficient amounts. Unfortunately it has been outlawed in many States and is very hard to get in most. It's use would greatly diminsh the number of lost animals. Just another example of the Government legislating things they know nothing about.

[davlandrum]

Publius - I am also an avid bowhunter, but am 100% against poison. All poison does is create the perception that bowhunters need it in order to humanely kill animals.

The anti's have all the ammo they need without giving them more.

I am actually surprised to even hear it brought up. I think you would be hard pressed to find any bow hunting proponent that would advocate it. We don't need it.

[rrp]

I also take exception to blaming bow hunters for wounding too many deer. I have deer hunted well over 40 years, with bow, rifle and handgun. I hunt the same areas for all seasons. I have went up to 10 years of bow hunting without coming upon a wounded or freshly killed unclaimed deer. I have never had a gun hunting season without seeing a wounded or dead deer that someone didn't claim. I think it has to do more with numbers of hunters. In a typical gun season Wisconsin sells in excess of 600,000 licenses. Many of these are sold to people that do not handle or shoot a firearm any other time of the year. It's not uncommon to find or see 5 or 6 unclaimed deer in the nine day season. We have on the average 250,000 to 300,000 registered kills a year with all of the extra permits given out to keep the deer population at safe and healthy limits. The few wounded during the bow season don't have anywhere near the impact on the population as our harsh winters would if we wouldn't take as many as we do. Again, kudos for dispatching the wounded animal. Poaching is just plain wrong with a bow or a rifle unless you absolutely need the meat to feed your family in hard times.

[sc928porsche]

In my 50 years of hunting I have seen a lot of wounded game. Of the deer, most of them were from arrows but just barely. What upsets me is not what was used but instead that they were not tracked down. Once you hit the game, it is your responsibility to finish the job. Period!

I wounded an animal when I was young and spent almost 2 days tracking him down. I am not shure what caused my shot to go high, but it went in above the lungs and below the spine. I am sure that the animal suffered terribly for those two days and was hobbling along untill I put him down. To me, just letting him go because finding him was going to be very difficult was not an option.

This lesson is also why I now prefer to hunt with "cannons". I would rather loose some meat than loose the animal.

[J270]

I whent back this weekend, and to make a long story short,the yotes were fat and happy. It kind-of makes me feal a little better, knowing mother nature did not let her go to waste.

P.S The lord granted me an opertunity to harvest a nice 2x2 yesterday,
and I took him up on it. It's been A wile since Ive had Buck Fever, wow no drug can compare with that. but Im probably preaching to the quire!

Be safe out there

Jason

[davlandrum]

J - congrats! Blacktail?

[Brian Pfleuger]

I could not agree more.
I know three good bowhunters. I have seen each of these guys put five arrows in a row into a silver dollar sized target at 40 yards.
Yet, each of these guys has told me stories of how they have taken 30 yard shots, and hit the deer, but it got away.
The deer flinched, or the arrow hit a twig etc.
Then they always say, "But an arrow wound will heal up with no damage."

Yeah, right.
More often than not that creature will go off into the woods and suffer for a few days and die.

I know that gun hunters cripple deer. But bow hunters cripple and wound deer to an extravagant degree.
If it were up to me bow hunting would be illegal.

I have seen each of these guys put five arrows in a row into a silver dollar sized target at 40 yards.

Many gun hunters can't do that, should guns be banned?

But bow hunters cripple and wound deer to an extravagant degree.

Bull! Got some data to back that up? I see more wounded animals from guns. Most bow hunters are careful and ethical people. We only get ONE shot. I have seen many, many guys with guns with the attitude of "Let the lead fly, they'll die if you hit 'em"

That said, I hunt with both weapons and most people who hunt are responsible.

[ryalred]

I'm a bow hunter and I am totally against anyone hunting illegally, with a gun or a bow. But now as to the ethics of bow hunting. Most bow hunters are very conscientious hunters. Most practice hours upon hours and are good shots. I have a self imposed maximum range for taking a shot (30 yds) and I let many go within that range because they are not positioned properly for a good shot. Even so, I have lost 3 or 4 deer that I've shot with my bow through my many years of hunting. However, people loose deer that they shoot with guns. I believe that if you hunt long enough you'll even loose a deer you shot with a gun. That doesn't make you an unethical hunter. We owe it to the animals we hunt to become as proficient as we can in the type of hunting we do. We need to make some self imposed limits on what shots we'll take. Well, that's my nickel's worth.

[Tuckahoe]

There are two sides to every story....What if the hunter with good intentions made a bad shot or hit a branch with his arrow and spent the next nine hours walking and looking for the wounded animal. Would that make you feel better?
Bow hunting is not evil.

Does California allow dogs for tracking deer? A good track dog could have ended this much quicker.

[J270]

Hey davlandrum! yes it was a Blacktail. I would est. about 90lbs field dressed, made some real good jerky out of him yesterday. It always seems to take two hours to make, and the next day its gone in two minutes

[davlandrum]

J - Nice!

Blacktail population around here has really taken a beating, at least it seems that way to me. Hairslip syndrome, ever expanding 'burbs, etc. Added to that is the fact that a lot of the big timber companies have locked their gates makes it pretty frustrating.

I did not get drawn for Eastern Oregon (mule deer) this year, so will be struggling to find a blacktail.

[J270]

dav what is hairslip syn.

[davlandrum]

J - From the ODFW website - I think we call it hairslip, since it looks like hairslip from taxidermy

Deer Hair Loss Syndrome (DHLS)

DHLS is a new illness not seen before it was first documented in black-tailed deer in 1995 on Naval Sub base Bangor in Washington. By spring 2002, DHLS had spread south through western Oregon into Jackson and Josephine counties. It is called a syndrome because the exact cause is not known. Deer exhibiting hair loss have large numbers of lice which cause irritation. The typical pattern seen in deer suffering from DHLS includes a darkening of the hair in patches or over large portions of the body, often becoming apparent Dec. – Apr. Hair loss occurs as deer rub, bite, and scratch their hair off causing the appearance of white or yellow patches. As the hair is rubbed off, deer start losing energy reserves and often the coat appears “wet” or in rough condition. Deer can appear emaciated or gaunt, appear slow and lethargic and are often seen biting, licking and chewing their hair, and may have diarrhea. Death can occur, most likely from exposure to the elements. Some deer recover and appear to grow new summer coats. Biologists suspect some deer that appear to recover in summer suffer symptoms again the following fall and perish. ODFW field personnel will be collecting lice and other samples from hunter harvested deer that appear to be suffering from this syndrome.

Here is a link to more info

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/wildlife/diseases/hairloss/

[J270]

As far as I know we dont have that here, (thank god). Their was a rumor of some Blue tonge,but I never saw or new annyone who delt with it first hand.

It would seem ethical to send a hairless deer home, Hairslip sounds like an agonizing and painful way to go.

Hey dav when does youre season start? Sorry you didnt get go after that big muley. (always wanted to do that)

Ill mentaly send you anny blacktail mojo that I have left over.

ooowwwwwwmmmmmmm...Tag a big one....ooowwwwwmmmmm

[davlandrum]

Bowhunting starts Aug 30 (yes, 10 more agonizing days). We will bowhunt elk, and then rifle deer starts 4 October. I drew a doe tag, so can actually (in theory) get 2 deer.

I can't complain about the Eastern Oregon draw. We have been pretty consistent getting drawn 2 out of every 3 years. When we do get drawn, we have been very successful, at least at filling freezers. If we ever get an elk during bow season, and therefor have meat in the freezer, we can hold out for a big set of horns. So far, meat has been way more important to us.

Hardest part is when we don't go east, we don't have a "go to" spot. We have lived in the area on and off since we were kids, but all the old "standbys" are now either behind locked gates or so overgrown you can't hunt. Filling a doe tag is one thing, but finding a buck is a challenge.

Thanks for the mojo - I need all I can get.

[J270]

yea! buck meat is a form of curency in this house

I wish that Cal would do more doe hunts, but as you all know hunting and the herd are not wel taken care of here.

Im 31 years old and been in the woods since I was 12,hunting deer. I have never herd of or seen anything done to help the herd. They dont seem to mind to take your money for tags and sutch. ( I have not seen a warden all year)

no authority just seems to test the ethics of to many hunters :barf:

[davlandrum]

J - what part of CA are you in? You might have mentioned it before, and I can't remember...

The only time I have seen any kind of LE while hunting were 1) Rifle Elk season in Eastern Oregon. Warden came by once a day to check on us. First day he checked us off against a list of tag holders names, after that it was just to see if we got anything and chat a bit. And 2) Where we bow hunt elk, some IDIOT had arrowed a cow (a moo cow, not a female elk) on one of the farms down the mountain. Sheriff had the arrow in hand and was checking fletchings for a match.

I think it is a systematic shortage of money for LE. In the county where I live, there are 2 sheriffs on duty at any given time. From one end of the county to the other, it is probably at least 3-4 hour drive. If there is a property crime in the county, they just send you the forms in the mail and you never see an actual person. I think they would show up eventually if you shot someone trying to do you harm...Basically, we are expected to protect us and ours.

[J270]

I live in Lakeport. Its about 3 hours noth of San Fran. Im a 10min drive from one of the greatest bass fishing lakes in our country Clear lake. (lake co.)

The bass fishing and family is the only thing keeping from moving to a state with better hunting!