So what happened to my nickel plated brass?

[Nick_C_S]

it's the acid... mine do the same... try running a load with only the soap & pins,

That's what I did - no Lemi-Shine for the first two tumbles.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

& they still turned black ???

if so, what are you using for soap ???

[Nick_C_S]

Pics or it didn't happen

Here they are now. Nice n shiny and ready for reloading. My corn cob in the flash hole removal system (compressed air burst) worked like a champ. Although, I don't want to make that a part of my normal reconditioning process



As you can see, some of the nickel is wearing thin now; and that's perfectly okay.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

BTW... you didn't shoot those with black powder did you ???

[Nick_C_S]

they still turned black ???

Yes.

if so, what are you using for soap ???

Dawn. One squirt out of your basic pump bottle.

[Nick_C_S]

you didn't shoot those with black powder did you ???

No. I did not.

[schmellba99]

Interesting, haven't run into that problem with the nickel plated brass I have.

I did have issues right off the bat with my wet tumbler, but I was using the liquid Lemi Shine rinse aid, not the powder. It's not the same stuff - left my brass clean, but with a very dull (almost brown) finish. Next batch was with the powder and they came out looking like new.

Nickel plating will come off with corncob and walnut, and the SSTL pins aren't as abrasive as people think - the consistency of the water, pins, soap and brass is almost like a slush. The pins agitate the water and soap more than they do actually abrading anything off the brass.

[Nick_C_S]

Nickel plating will come off with corncob and walnut, and the SSTL pins aren't as abrasive as people think - the consistency of the water, pins, soap and brass is almost like a slush. The pins agitate the water and soap more than they do actually abrading anything off the brass.

From my personal experience, I agree with this completely. The pins mostly agitate the water/soap solution. They do get into the crannies too - like the primer pockets.

[sawdustdad]

I keep a pair of welding goggles next to my vibratory tumbler so I don't damage my retinas dumping nickle plated .38 brass into my media separator. I'm using walnut hull media with a touch of Dillon rapidshine. I'd post a picture but they all come out way overexposed

[Nick_C_S]

Your future's so bright, you gotta wear shades

I'm still confused as to what happened. I've wet tumbled nickel brass before with no problem. It seems if there's just a few mixed in with regular brass, it's fine. But if there is a large quantity of them, it's a problem. ??

Anyway, when I have large quantities if nickel stuff, I don't think I'm going to ss pin tumble. Just vibra tumble with corn cob.

[CarJunkieLS1]

I tumble/clean all sorts or metals for a living in a manufacturing plant. I've been doing it for 7 yrs. I use dry tumble, wet tumble, media, etc. etc.

IMO the reason your nickel brass turned that way is because there is some sort of grease (sizing lube) along with particles of powder and nickel plating that aren't able to be "suspended" in your media/tumbling solution. If it were me I would use some form of degreaser on the inside of your tumbler and clean it thoroughly. I'd do the same thing with your SS media after that I'd thoroughly rinse out your tumbler and media w/ plain water.

You'll know if that is your problem when you clean it.

[Nick_C_S]

The inside of the tumbler is clean, as are the pins. Isn't Dawn dishwash soap a degreaser? Because that's what I use for tumbling.

At any rate, I tumbled some 10mm and 40 today. A small percentage of the brass was nickel plated - about 15 of them, or so. Everything came out nice n shiny - including the nickel plated stuff. Go figure.

[McCarthy]

Maybe there is some electrolytic charge going on. Brass consists of copper and zinc. Nickel and zinc is being used in batteries (Nickel–zinc battery). Maybe the electrical charge reverses the nickel plating, but only when the amount of nickel matches the requirements.

[CarJunkieLS1]

You say your media is clean...but you said that when you take a paper towel and wipe the brass that stuff comes off also that grey stuff comes off your SS pins when you hold them in your hand.

In my experience when material like that is present its because your media and solution mixture can't suspend the particulates so it sticks to anything it can.

[Nick_C_S]

There was a film of some sort on the nickel brass and the pins. But it didn't just "wipe" off with a paper towel. It took a thorough rubbing for it to come off - a polishing action, if you will. None the less, yes indeed, there was something there.

As for the pins being dull looking: I had a bunch of 44 Mag brass that needed to be tumbled, so I took this opportunity to do so. The Mag brass (non-nickel) - as well as the pins - came out nice and shiny. So whatever it was came off and went into suspension in the water this time.

Then today, I tumbled some 10mm & 40 S&W - with a few nickel among them. Again, the result was normal - nice, shiny brass; the nickel too.

Go figure. Seems that there is something about the quantity that caused the original problem.

[Nick_C_S]

Yesterday, I tumbled 200 pcs 38 Spl (all Starline), and they came out sightly tarnished looking and kind of dull. Same process as always.

Today, I tumbled about 150 pcs of 10mm (a few were nickel), and they came out bright n shiny. Same process as always.

Go figure. I'm seeing no rhyme or reason to this.

[McCarthy]

They suggest running the SS pins alone once in a while in order to clean them. Might be worth a try.

[Nick_C_S]

But I'm using the same pins every day, and getting different results.

In fact, since my last post, I tumbled some 45 ACP and they came out brilliant bright.

That said, there would be no harm in cleaning the pins by themselves. Next time I need to tumble, I'll run the pins by themselves first, then tumble the brass.

[Mavrick79]

After every batch I rinse out my SS pins and tumbler. I've found if I don't my results get progressively worse or less shiny.

[Unclenick]

I've had nickel wear off cases just from resizing, long before the stainless pins.

Nick,

A couple of things come to mind: One has been covered: The pins need to be tumbled by themselves for awhile when new, not only to remove lube used to help the process of cutting them, but to dull the edges at their ends where they were cut.

The main issue seems likely to be a galvanic reaction of some kind. That could happen in either acid or base solutions, just as you can make either acid or alkaline batteries. You probably aren't getting the exact same pH in your solutions every time unless you mix components carefully. There is probably an optimal pH range you can operate in and that you have to adjust the mix to achieve.

What you could try is a pH neutral cleaning solution. Citric acid is commonly used to adjust detergent pH in shampoos down from alkaline, and you could do that using one of the inexpensive plant pH meters from a big box garden center. Amazon has one for under $5. Just keep the electrodes clean with a non-metallic (don't want to contaminate the electrodes) cleaning pad, like a Scotch-Brite pad. These meters work by creating a battery by galvanic reaction between their two probe materials in an aqueous solution. They don't need batteries, for that reason. So if you neutralize the solution well enough that it doesn't show on the meter, I don't expect you have enough ionization to cause trouble for your nickel cases, either. You can, however, check the solution with the meter part way through the cleaning process just to be sure you aren't changing the pH by getting small amounts of metal into solution.

You could also just keep a record of pH readings for your solutions and note what they were when the solutions seemed to behave well, then aim adjustment at those numbers.

It is possible fine particles of brass are embedded in the drum surface that could react. You might try tumbling some water and vinegar with the pins for an hour or two to be sure to clear the surface off, then rinse the pins off and tumble the pins in water only for a while to clean them, too.

You could try using distilled water or RO DI water as a base mix, just in case traces of something in your tap water are contributing to the issue.

[Will-j]

U-Nick.... Just askin' now; But what effect would using something like OXY-CLEAN have on the brass/pins?
WILL

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I've done 2 sets of pins now, & I always just run a good squirt of Dawn, & a teaspoon of granular Citric Acid ( my regular tumbling solution ) on new pins for a cycle or two of the timer, & rinse before I add brass... seems to work well for me...

NICK... I agree with the galvanic assessment... I may have to get a quick plant PH meter to test water...

speaking of water... I'm betting distilled water would be best to use ( in fact my new Frankford Arsenal tumbler recommends that in the instructions ) I just use soft tap water... however there are still many impurities, salt residue, minerals, etc. from soft water... plus water varies a lot with mineral content, & concentrations across the USA... betting the discolor of the nickel has as much to do with salt level, or mineral content of the water, aided by galvanic activity??? next tumble of nickel cases I might try with distilled water to see if there is a difference in the finished color of the nickel cases

[SHR970]

Dawn detergent contains 12-23% sodium sulfamate salts. Salts in and of themselves are not the issue.

I suspect that the sulfamates are a main part of the issue; see my previous post.

[Gravedigger56]

Oops. I never cleaned my pins prior to use.

My first batch of brass was a mixture of brass and some nickel and they came out looking like brand new cases.

Can't remember specifics but I read on some forums that you should only use the "blue" dawn because of the ingredients or lack of. Also I was told that many wet tumblers are switching to Armour All wash & Wax instead of Dawn because not only do the cases look better but are more resistant to tarnishing during storage.

[Nick_C_S]

The pins were pre-tumbled clean when new, before using.

I think part of what's happening is that my water here is hard. And its composition probably varies from day to day (it's municipal water - not from a well). I also think that when I haven't used the tumbler in a while, it seems the issue is worse.

My last three batches (chronicled in above posts) got progressively better as I tumbled them one batch right after the other. So there's something going on there. I checked the inside of the drum, and it seemed clean. I'm in a dry climate. The pins dry quickly because I'm the climate here is very dry; and also because of the wicking effect. Just sitting in the media separator, they dry in just a couple days. Right now, I have them in the sun - they'll be dry in a few hours.

Hard water.
Probably not getting the PH just right.
"Stale" pins / dirty tumbler.

I think I've got a combination of things going on.