Helping a newbie with with a Hornady LNL AP... primer feed

Magnum Wheel Man · January 21, 2013, 07:11 AM

1st off, I don't reload ( currently ) with a progressive, but have been loading for over 20 years off a one of several single stages...

buddies family bought him a progressive for his 1st press... got a couple issues...

1st issue... the press seems to be missing a spring wire clip that goes into the drop tube. that keeps the correct length collar for the powder measure in place, I suspect he'll have to contact Hornady & get a replacement part...

2nd, the primer shuttle does not reliably feed primers... he didn't know how sensitive the press was to dust, & has had it set up in his heated garage ( in which he also does wood working ) so even though he did the initial clean & dry lube a while ago, in accordance with the DVD, we went through & cleaned everything again yesterday, to remove any saw dust ( which there was alot of crud initially in the primer shuttle mechanism ) but even re-cleaned, it seemed to have an issue binding up... I found that by loosening the riser tube screw a little, we could make it work "some", by dropping the handle a little past where the shuttle should have started moving, then giving a wiggle to the riser tube, would often allow it to free up, & we could continue to prime... I got all his dies set up, & with all the issues priming, we did that as a seperate process, mostly, & since we couldn't use the powder measure, we pulled cases at that stage & scaled some charges ( enough for 25 cartridges ) then seated the bullets, for finished cartridges, so I know everything is set up right...

so... in talking with a couple other buddies, that have the LNL AP, sounds like the primer shuttle is a common problem... is that something that the user can fix, or does that require sending it in ???

hounddawg · January 21, 2013, 08:07 AM

Biggest issue I have had with the primer system is dust and dirt. Keep a can of canned air handy. However fromwhat you are describing it sounds like part # 8 (exploded diagram at back of book) needs adjusting. Hard to tell without being there but the first you and him need to do sit down and watch the CD that came with the press, all of it. Secondly call Hornady's toll free customer service number if you stil can't figure it out. They were very patient with me. They will spend as much time as needed to troubleshoot.

On the powder drop tube I have no clue what you are referring to,the 3 drop tubes just slide down into the measure from the top, there are no springs that hold them in. Once again, get some ice tea and popcorn and watch the CD. The instructional videos on it are great

Magnum Wheel Man · January 21, 2013, 08:20 AM

Ok... so when you drop the different length sleeves into the drop tube, on his, they just fall out of the bottom... we can see a machined ring in the drop tube, that we figured must have had some sort of a clip, that kept the sleeves from just dropping out the bottom ???

hounddawg · January 21, 2013, 01:12 PM

Ok you got me curious enough to take mine apart to look, there is a C clip style snap ring, part #24 on page 18 of the lnl powder drop book, that keeps them from dropping through. Call Hornady CS and tell your buddy's is missing. Part # is 392722 retaining ring. Kind of weird because my powder drop came fully assembled with one of the tubes already installed as I remember. Guess they don't these days

Magnum Wheel Man · January 21, 2013, 02:10 PM

Thanks for the reply's... We did watch the DVD, when I came over ( at least most of it ) & pictured in the DVD, the tubes were in the the powder hopper, not in the tube ( at least now ??? )

still curious on the primer set up... the plastic wheel follows the rod correctly, just that the shuttle doesn't come out after the wheel pulls away from the rod... seems like the shuttle is tight in the housing ( casting line, burr, or something ??? ) by loosening the nut so the riser could rock a little, it helped, but still seemed to bind up on occasion...

& I did tell him these are highly sensitive to dust & dirt, & he's going to have alot of problems if he leaves it where he's doing woodwork...

hounddawg · January 21, 2013, 03:06 PM

the plastic wheel follows the rod correctly, just that the shuttle doesn't come out after the wheel pulls away from the rod

the wheel is part of the shuttle, where the wheel goes the shuttle goes

the newer ones have a aluminum wheel

a spring hooks on the outside of that wheel axel and that brings the shuttle back towards the shell plate as the ram lowers you need to call the CS line, something here is making no sense at all

Magnum Wheel Man · January 21, 2013, 03:11 PM

I guess I'm not explaining well... the wheel "tracks" with the rod fine, but lifts off the rod & sticks out ( yes the spring is intact ) & can & does snap in, if you wiggle the riser... in fact on one, primer, it snapped one across the room

rajbcpa · January 21, 2013, 04:05 PM

After 5 months of total frustration, I gave up on my new Hornady LNL progressive press. Currently, Hornady has some very serious quality control issues.

I had the same issue you describe here and a dozen more issues that never got resolved. The press simply would not run. I bought a Dillon 550 and it works without issue.

I would call Hornady Customer Service. I don't beleive they can resolve these issues but you should try anyway. When they send parts it takes at least 7 business days, so beware. Most of the time they are nice but "pig" slow.

Good luck.

techrecruit · January 21, 2013, 04:52 PM

I'm new to reloading as well and just now starting to use the press but am working on a brass preparation project right now and not fully loading off of it.

While depriming and sizing a ton of 9mm brass i had several parts just fly apart on me. For the life of me I can't figure out where they go. I know one end of the spring goes on a plate by the shell plate but not sure how everything else goes and also if i've actually broke a part, missing a part, etc...

Can someone post a good picture of what it's supposed to look like (up close). Couldn't find anything up close online.
See my pictures for reference of parts I found.

Magnum Wheel Man · January 21, 2013, 04:55 PM

Look at your DVD, for a starter... you need to change the shuttle ( I think ) to switch from large & small primers, so this is made to take apart repeatedly... it should be explained in the DVD ( BTW, I don't have a LNL, so I plead ignorance

)

hounddawg · January 21, 2013, 05:34 PM

I guess I'm not explaining well... the wheel "tracks" with the rod fine, but lifts off the rod & sticks out ( yes the spring is intact ) & can & does snap in, if you wiggle the riser... in fact on one, primer, it snapped one across the room

Ok I got it now. The primer seater punch has some crud in it and is causing it to sit a bit proud. Test this by unscrewing the seater punch a couple of threads or take it completely out and see if the shuttle behaves. If so push the seater punch up and blow the crud out of the bottom out with some canned air until the punch will fully retract inthe threaded punch assembly. One grain of 231 in that primer system can jam up the entire sequence of operation. The slide will be catching on the pin if the pin is not flush or slightly below the shellplate

I am far from being a mechanical genius but once I learned to keep thing squeeky clean, it functions perfectly. In the last year and a couple of months my LnL has loaded ?? K now. Loaded close to 2K 9mm's in the last week. About once every hundred rounds I would stop and take my air compressor and blow off any powder that had fallen onto the shell plate.

That first night of using mine I was as frustrated as you sound and becasue of the exact same problem. However the Hornady rep spent probably 30 - 45 minutes on the phone with me the next day and everything started to click. Just remember first thing to do in any malfunction is check for crud keeping things from cycling as they should

look at this image, it is upside down but if the punch is not flush or slightly below the threaded holder that will stop the slide from moving fully forward and can jam it from going back also. If you feel any resistance stop and find out what is causing it, that is most likly the reason your wheel popped off. I am speaking from experience here LOL.

[IMG]

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That primer punch is the one part of the press that really needs to be rethought out in my opinion. One flake of powder in it can bring the entire press to a standstill. A friend of mine who also has one and I were discussing that today. A couple of grooves in the punch that pushes the primer into the case would stop the crud from causing it to sit high like I suspect yours is. Those simple grooves would allow the crud fall out the bottom and eliminate 99% of the jams and malfunctions

schmellba99 · January 21, 2013, 05:48 PM

I had a couple of issues with my primer seater when I first got started, but a few minutes of deductive reasoning and fine tuning got it fixed just fine.

Things I would recommend:

1. Polish the groove your seater slides in and out of.
2. Polish the under side of your primer seater (the part with the wheel)
3. Use some graphite powder (or use a pencil and color all over both parts) to provide dry lubrication that won't gum anything up
4. My LnL AP does not have any sort of clip on the primer drop tubes - the drop tubes have a shoulder machined into one side that sits in the reciever that is bolted to the press. Unfortunately these should have been threaded, because inertia with a tube full of primers will eventually unseat the drop tube. I ordered a couple of the recievers that bolt to the press and JB welded the drop tubes into them. Have not had so much as a hint of problems out of my priming system since then.
5. Keep a long handled paint brush (one of those small fine ones that is about 1/4" wide) and every time you need to refill the primer tube, brush down the press and the primer seater. It takes about a minute and will save you a lot of time. About every 300 rounds, check the allen screw that holds the shell plate in and make sure it is tight. Sometimes it will loosen up just a smidge and can throw the shell plate off. About every 1000 rounds, I typically take the shell plate off and clean everything with the brush real good.

Like any other machine (yes, even Dillons) it takes some learning on how it operates and training yourself on the mechanics with a progressive.

hounddawg · January 22, 2013, 07:49 AM

Here are those pics you requested, if that was not exactly what you were looking for let me know. BTW see those flakes of powder in the pics. One of those in wrong area will bring the press to a halt. If your buddy insists on leaving his press in a woodworking area he needs to thoroughly clean it before every use or he will end up frustrated and giving up on the press.

One thing I did do earlier when looking at mine was removed the slide and sanded a small radius on the front (where the primer sits) bottom of the slide to help it ride up and over that punch. Also took a few thousandths off the slide in the same area so if the punch is slightly protruding it will not contact the bottom of the slide, hopefully the primer will just ride up in the slide. Have not really tested doing real loading yet so not sure how it will do

Magnum Wheel Man · January 22, 2013, 08:16 AM

Thanks for the pics & suggestions guys... I'll probably print this thread so he can keep it handy to help trouble shoot... I hope he can move his press into the house somewhere ( I'm sure dependant on the MRS ) because he does a fair amount of woodworking in the heated garage, so I think he's always going to have issues with cleaning his press...

will suggest recleaning & perhaps some polishing of the shuttle body & housing track & examining the primer punch area...

hounddawg · January 22, 2013, 08:52 AM

I would bet he has a air compressor, all he has to do is blow it off before use and periodically when loading. Remove the primer punch and make sure the punch will seat flush in it's holder and there is no debris under the shell plate. In between loading he can dip it in sawdust, well that is a bit extreme but you get the picture.

Once again though I cannot recommend Hornady's toll free line enough, people there will walk him through any and all problems. I have never been on hold more than a minute or two and their people are fantastic

schmellba99 · January 22, 2013, 12:07 PM

Techrecruit:

Your first picture shows the complete large primer slide, as well as the wheel, and pin from the small primer slide (the broken part in your 3rd picture). The other part is the spring that connects the primer slide to the base.

Your second picture shows where the primer slide should be installed. The wheel fits on the cam rod (the bent piece that threads into your press base). This is what actuates the primer slide in conjunction with your spring from picture #1.

This is all very clearly illustrated in the master parts and assembly instructions with your press.

January 21, 2013, 08:20 AM	#3
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Ok... so when you drop the different length sleeves into the drop tube, on his, they just fall out of the bottom... we can see a machined ring in the drop tube, that we figured must have had some sort of a clip, that kept the sleeves from just dropping out the bottom ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

January 21, 2013, 01:12 PM	#4
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	Ok you got me curious enough to take mine apart to look, there is a C clip style snap ring, part #24 on page 18 of the lnl powder drop book, that keeps them from dropping through. Call Hornady CS and tell your buddy's is missing. Part # is 392722 retaining ring. Kind of weird because my powder drop came fully assembled with one of the tubes already installed as I remember. Guess they don't these days __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

January 21, 2013, 02:10 PM	#5
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Thanks for the reply's... We did watch the DVD, when I came over ( at least most of it ) & pictured in the DVD, the tubes were in the the powder hopper, not in the tube ( at least now ??? ) still curious on the primer set up... the plastic wheel follows the rod correctly, just that the shuttle doesn't come out after the wheel pulls away from the rod... seems like the shuttle is tight in the housing ( casting line, burr, or something ??? ) by loosening the nut so the riser could rock a little, it helped, but still seemed to bind up on occasion... & I did tell him these are highly sensitive to dust & dirt, & he's going to have alot of problems if he leaves it where he's doing woodwork... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

January 21, 2013, 03:06 PM	#6
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	the plastic wheel follows the rod correctly, just that the shuttle doesn't come out after the wheel pulls away from the rod the wheel is part of the shuttle, where the wheel goes the shuttle goes the newer ones have a aluminum wheel a spring hooks on the outside of that wheel axel and that brings the shuttle back towards the shell plate as the ram lowers you need to call the CS line, something here is making no sense at all __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

January 21, 2013, 03:11 PM	#7
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I guess I'm not explaining well... the wheel "tracks" with the rod fine, but lifts off the rod & sticks out ( yes the spring is intact ) & can & does snap in, if you wiggle the riser... in fact on one, primer, it snapped one across the room __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

January 21, 2013, 07:11 AM	#1
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Helping a newbie with with a Hornady LNL AP... primer feed 1st off, I don't reload ( currently ) with a progressive, but have been loading for over 20 years off a one of several single stages... buddies family bought him a progressive for his 1st press... got a couple issues... 1st issue... the press seems to be missing a spring wire clip that goes into the drop tube. that keeps the correct length collar for the powder measure in place, I suspect he'll have to contact Hornady & get a replacement part... 2nd, the primer shuttle does not reliably feed primers... he didn't know how sensitive the press was to dust, & has had it set up in his heated garage ( in which he also does wood working ) so even though he did the initial clean & dry lube a while ago, in accordance with the DVD, we went through & cleaned everything again yesterday, to remove any saw dust ( which there was alot of crud initially in the primer shuttle mechanism ) but even re-cleaned, it seemed to have an issue binding up... I found that by loosening the riser tube screw a little, we could make it work "some", by dropping the handle a little past where the shuttle should have started moving, then giving a wiggle to the riser tube, would often allow it to free up, & we could continue to prime... I got all his dies set up, & with all the issues priming, we did that as a seperate process, mostly, & since we couldn't use the powder measure, we pulled cases at that stage & scaled some charges ( enough for 25 cartridges ) then seated the bullets, for finished cartridges, so I know everything is set up right... so... in talking with a couple other buddies, that have the LNL AP, sounds like the primer shuttle is a common problem... is that something that the user can fix, or does that require sending it in ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust... Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; January 21, 2013 at 08:04 AM.

January 21, 2013, 08:07 AM	#2
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	Biggest issue I have had with the primer system is dust and dirt. Keep a can of canned air handy. However fromwhat you are describing it sounds like part # 8 (exploded diagram at back of book) needs adjusting. Hard to tell without being there but the first you and him need to do sit down and watch the CD that came with the press, all of it. Secondly call Hornady's toll free customer service number if you stil can't figure it out. They were very patient with me. They will spend as much time as needed to troubleshoot. On the powder drop tube I have no clue what you are referring to,the 3 drop tubes just slide down into the measure from the top, there are no springs that hold them in. Once again, get some ice tea and popcorn and watch the CD. The instructional videos on it are great __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

January 21, 2013, 04:05 PM	#8
rajbcpa Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2012 Posts: 321	After 5 months of total frustration, I gave up on my new Hornady LNL progressive press. Currently, Hornady has some very serious quality control issues. I had the same issue you describe here and a dozen more issues that never got resolved. The press simply would not run. I bought a Dillon 550 and it works without issue. I would call Hornady Customer Service. I don't beleive they can resolve these issues but you should try anyway. When they send parts it takes at least 7 business days, so beware. Most of the time they are nice but "pig" slow. Good luck.

January 21, 2013, 04:55 PM	#10
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Look at your DVD, for a starter... you need to change the shuttle ( I think ) to switch from large & small primers, so this is made to take apart repeatedly... it should be explained in the DVD ( BTW, I don't have a LNL, so I plead ignorance ) __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

January 21, 2013, 05:34 PM	#11
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	I guess I'm not explaining well... the wheel "tracks" with the rod fine, but lifts off the rod & sticks out ( yes the spring is intact ) & can & does snap in, if you wiggle the riser... in fact on one, primer, it snapped one across the room Ok I got it now. The primer seater punch has some crud in it and is causing it to sit a bit proud. Test this by unscrewing the seater punch a couple of threads or take it completely out and see if the shuttle behaves. If so push the seater punch up and blow the crud out of the bottom out with some canned air until the punch will fully retract inthe threaded punch assembly. One grain of 231 in that primer system can jam up the entire sequence of operation. The slide will be catching on the pin if the pin is not flush or slightly below the shellplate I am far from being a mechanical genius but once I learned to keep thing squeeky clean, it functions perfectly. In the last year and a couple of months my LnL has loaded ?? K now. Loaded close to 2K 9mm's in the last week. About once every hundred rounds I would stop and take my air compressor and blow off any powder that had fallen onto the shell plate. That first night of using mine I was as frustrated as you sound and becasue of the exact same problem. However the Hornady rep spent probably 30 - 45 minutes on the phone with me the next day and everything started to click. Just remember first thing to do in any malfunction is check for crud keeping things from cycling as they should look at this image, it is upside down but if the punch is not flush or slightly below the threaded holder that will stop the slide from moving fully forward and can jam it from going back also. If you feel any resistance stop and find out what is causing it, that is most likly the reason your wheel popped off. I am speaking from experience here LOL. [IMG][/IMG] That primer punch is the one part of the press that really needs to be rethought out in my opinion. One flake of powder in it can bring the entire press to a standstill. A friend of mine who also has one and I were discussing that today. A couple of grooves in the punch that pushes the primer into the case would stop the crud from causing it to sit high like I suspect yours is. Those simple grooves would allow the crud fall out the bottom and eliminate 99% of the jams and malfunctions __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; January 21, 2013 at 06:04 PM.

January 21, 2013, 05:48 PM	#12
schmellba99 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 803	I had a couple of issues with my primer seater when I first got started, but a few minutes of deductive reasoning and fine tuning got it fixed just fine. Things I would recommend: 1. Polish the groove your seater slides in and out of. 2. Polish the under side of your primer seater (the part with the wheel) 3. Use some graphite powder (or use a pencil and color all over both parts) to provide dry lubrication that won't gum anything up 4. My LnL AP does not have any sort of clip on the primer drop tubes - the drop tubes have a shoulder machined into one side that sits in the reciever that is bolted to the press. Unfortunately these should have been threaded, because inertia with a tube full of primers will eventually unseat the drop tube. I ordered a couple of the recievers that bolt to the press and JB welded the drop tubes into them. Have not had so much as a hint of problems out of my priming system since then. 5. Keep a long handled paint brush (one of those small fine ones that is about 1/4" wide) and every time you need to refill the primer tube, brush down the press and the primer seater. It takes about a minute and will save you a lot of time. About every 300 rounds, check the allen screw that holds the shell plate in and make sure it is tight. Sometimes it will loosen up just a smidge and can throw the shell plate off. About every 1000 rounds, I typically take the shell plate off and clean everything with the brush real good. Like any other machine (yes, even Dillons) it takes some learning on how it operates and training yourself on the mechanics with a progressive.

January 22, 2013, 07:49 AM	#13
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	Here are those pics you requested, if that was not exactly what you were looking for let me know. BTW see those flakes of powder in the pics. One of those in wrong area will bring the press to a halt. If your buddy insists on leaving his press in a woodworking area he needs to thoroughly clean it before every use or he will end up frustrated and giving up on the press. One thing I did do earlier when looking at mine was removed the slide and sanded a small radius on the front (where the primer sits) bottom of the slide to help it ride up and over that punch. Also took a few thousandths off the slide in the same area so if the punch is slightly protruding it will not contact the bottom of the slide, hopefully the primer will just ride up in the slide. Have not really tested doing real loading yet so not sure how it will do __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

January 22, 2013, 08:16 AM	#14
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Thanks for the pics & suggestions guys... I'll probably print this thread so he can keep it handy to help trouble shoot... I hope he can move his press into the house somewhere ( I'm sure dependant on the MRS ) because he does a fair amount of woodworking in the heated garage, so I think he's always going to have issues with cleaning his press... will suggest recleaning & perhaps some polishing of the shuttle body & housing track & examining the primer punch area... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

January 22, 2013, 08:52 AM	#15
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	I would bet he has a air compressor, all he has to do is blow it off before use and periodically when loading. Remove the primer punch and make sure the punch will seat flush in it's holder and there is no debris under the shell plate. In between loading he can dip it in sawdust, well that is a bit extreme but you get the picture. Once again though I cannot recommend Hornady's toll free line enough, people there will walk him through any and all problems. I have never been on hold more than a minute or two and their people are fantastic __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

January 22, 2013, 12:07 PM	#16
schmellba99 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 803	Techrecruit: Your first picture shows the complete large primer slide, as well as the wheel, and pin from the small primer slide (the broken part in your 3rd picture). The other part is the spring that connects the primer slide to the base. Your second picture shows where the primer slide should be installed. The wheel fits on the cam rod (the bent piece that threads into your press base). This is what actuates the primer slide in conjunction with your spring from picture #1. This is all very clearly illustrated in the master parts and assembly instructions with your press.