Nickel plating

[JLK]

I don't know any thing about the process of nickel plating a gun so any information would be appreciated.
I would like a nickel plated 1911.
Can I send a gun with blue or parkerized finish off and have it nickel plated ?
How would this effect the markings on the gun ?
Approximately how much would this cost?
Where is a good place to have it done ?
Thanks

[Jim Watson]

Bright nickel is $375 at Ford's.
http://fordsguns.com/home/4837274

Markings of a blue gun should not be affected by the little bit of polishing necessary and the tiny buildup of the plating.
A Parkerized gun might be rougher under the phosphate surface and the roll marks be at some risk if you want it shiny. There were a lot of surplus 1911s plated and some of them came out looking pretty good, some didn't.

An alternative would be to buy stainless and have it polished out. Nearly as expensive as plating, though.

[T. O'Heir]

"...send a gun with..." Yep. Take all the springs out and send only the parts you want a 19th Century finish on. Nickel tends to flake off over time.
Industrial hard chrome is a way better finish.

[SaxonPig]

"Industrial hard chrome is a way better finish."

Oh dear God...the horror...

[johnwilliamson062]

Oh dear God...the horror...

We started off with high gloss nickel. I'm not sure how chrome is causing an adverse reaction.

http://www.apwcogan.com/finishes-metal-finishes

A bit about nickel on that page also. Unless you are trying to fill in some rough spots I think hard chrome is going to win out.

[Skans]

I have to second the hard-chrome, although I don't care for polished chrome on guns. A good brushed hard-chrome is fairly scratch resistant and won't flake or pit. Industrial hard-chrome is not the same thing as show chrome.

I might even prefer a good bright nickel finish to polished stainless. Polished stainless seems to get scratched just by looking at it from 10 feet away! A good nickel job won't flake, or at least not for many decades, if reasonably taken care of.

[Bill DeShivs]

Of course industrial hard chrome is a better finish. Hard chrome can be done in satin, matte, or shiny finishes.

But the OP wants nickel. Properly applied nickel does not "flake off" with proper care, and is a beautiful finish. Nickel holds up better than Duracoat or Ceracoat, so I don't think it's a 19th century finish.

If shopping for a gun to be nickeled, skip the Parkerized ones unless they are dirt cheap. Parkerized guns will have to be polished to achieve a bright finish.
A brand new Colt gun in bright blue can be chemically stripped and nickeled without further polishing. Other brands may not be finished as well, and may require minor polishing. Plating itself doesn't wash out lettering, as the build up is both IN the lettering and ON the surface. Polishing a gun can wash out lettering, as only the surface is being polished. A good plater/polisher will not wash out strong markings.

Ford's is an excellent place to have nickel plating done.

[mete]

There are two types of nickel plating. Electrolytic and electroless. Electroless plates nickel + phosphorous. It's color is grey and it's somewhat harder than electrolytic. Browning made some BHPs with that.
Chrome is either decorative or Hard chrome . Hard is what they build up worn shafts .Properly done it doesn't peel easily and wears very well.
Whatever to want make sure it's done by a company that has experience in plating guns !!

[Scorch]

Can I send a gun with blue or parkerized finish off and have it nickel plated ?
How would this effect the markings on the gun ?
Approximately how much would this cost?
Where is a good place to have it done ?

1- Yes, you can send a blued or parkerized gun for electrlytic or electroless nickel plating. You can count on having to get them polished.
2- The markings on the gun should be unaffected (depending on who polishes it), nickel goes on .001"-.003" thick.
3- Cost depends on where the gun gets sent, but plan on spending $300-ish.
4- I send guns to AWP Cogan. I have had a couple of guns a year done by AWP Cogan, and the work is very good. DO NOT send guns to Techplate in CA, they will ruin them.

As far as which is best (hard chrome or nickel), they are as different as apples and oranges. Nickel is a very good finish and very durable. Hard chrome is also an excellent finish and very durable.

[James K]

To some extent, it is a matter of preference, but from a standpoint of durability, chrome will usually be more durable. Nickel plate is considered by many folks to have a "warmer" appearance and a better looking finish, less "harsh" than the typical chrome finish. (For a comparison, the old S&W and Colt factory finishes are nickel; most modern inexpensive guns, like the Raven, are chrome plated, like an automobile bumper.)

Jim

[johnwilliamson062]

Properly applied nickel does not "flake off" with proper care,

If proper care is siting in a safe I agree. If you want to limit the time frame to a few decades I will agree. Keep in mind proper care eliminates a fair number of cleaners. Anything with ammonia to start(I think it is ammonia). I have some quite old hard-chromed wrenches that have been used extensively, stored poorly, and generally neglected at times. Mostly bought out of barn/garage/estate sales. Still look much better than most nickel finished guns from 50 years ago.

[Dufus]

I have a Colt Series 70 Government Model that has a satin nickle finish.

Purchased 1976.

The finish is still as good as new and this handgun is not a safe queen by any means.

[Bill DeShivs]

Electroless nickel looks exactly like electrolytic nickel. The application process is different. Electroless nickel can have additives like phosphorus or boron, but most is simply nickel. EN can be somewhat harder than plain nickel. No nickel is as hard as industrial chrome.
Most factory nickel finishes are electroless nickel.

I knew the wive's tale of ammoniated cleaners would come up.
Generally, ammoniated cleaners-properly used will do no harm to a nickel finish. Some gun owners had guns plated by commercial plating shops. These shops used a copper underplate (which is not necessary.) this underplate can be damaged by SOAKING the gun in ammoniated cleaners, but proper usage will not harm even these guns.

I do plating- both electroless and electrolytic.

[Satchmoeddie]

I replate electric guitar parts in nickel all the time. You can do it yourself. Check out Caswells, plating supplies, and go with actual electroplating. Nothing quite looks like nickel plate. Chromium platings are too rich, deep and mirror like. Nickel is silvery and brighter. Cast parts are notoriously the hardest to plate, and extruded parts like pipe & wire are the easiest. Copper pipe is what every DIY plater starts with. Any good plating job with nickel, gold, or black oxide needs a copper or brass underplate, so you plate the gun in copper or brass, then plate it in nickel, after the copper plate. This type of nickel plating will NOT flake off, bubble off, or pit. Like painting 98% of the job is in the preparation work, such as stripping the old plating, polishing, cleaning, electro-cleaning, rinsing, pre-etching, rinsing, then you do your under plate work, and the same cleaning steps, (without the stripping) all over again. You use a 12 volt power supply, electro-cleaning, electro-pre-etching, and a nickel plating solution with a nickel anode, and plate up your gun parts. The parts I do are smaller than a gun frame, but I do a lot of cast parts. My beakers will not do a gun, but I assure you a good experienced plater will make it look absolutely gorgeous. I am an amateur DIY'er and I do very nice plating, but only on parts no larger than 4 pocket combs, stacked together.

[James K]

"These shops used a copper underplate (which is not necessary.)..."

True. but so did factories and that is the major problem. The nickel was either not properly applied in some places, mainly the muzzle and the front of the cylinder, or firing literally blew it away, because those are the places peeling generally starts. Of course the old guns did use copper undercladding, and that was the problem. The nickel itself is not affected by ammonia cleaners, but once an area of nickel is lost, allowing the ammonia to reach and dissolve the copper, the plating will begin to peel.

The copper is not necessary with modern plating techniques, but even high quality guns, like S&W revolvers which were nickel plated, had a copper undercladding. AFAIK, S&W has completely discontinued nickel plating, since stainless steel is available throughout its line, so the original reason for plating, preventing rust from moisture or perspiration, is no longer an issue.

Jim

[Bill DeShivs]

I have no knowledge of any modern gun manufacturer using a copper underplate. It is not necessary, so why would they?

[Skans]

copper under-plate is used on car and motorcycle parts mainly to smooth out small defects in the base metal. Also, I believe you can't directly apply chrome to aluminum - not sure about this, but I was told this when I was sending a lot of motorcycle parts off for chroming.

[Jim Watson]

I got a Colt Mk IV Series 70, billboard roll marks, therefore out of the early to mid 1970s cheap because some nitwit had laid it on a buffer and burned through the nickel to the copper strike on one side of the slide. I know 40 years is a long time in human terms, but not long in "gun years." Designs and methods don't change fast, so I consider it a fairly recent example. With copper.


Sure looked factory. I have seen enough local Bubba Bumper Bright guns to be familiar with cheap aftermarket plating and what was left of this one was very nice.

[Bill DeShivs]

But, was it factory nickel? I assume it was.

Aluminum requires an underplate of copper for nickel or chrome.

[Slopemeno]

Colt definitely used copper underplating with their satin nickel plated steel parts. We stripped a couple of satin nickel Colts to build comp guns from, and getting those little areas of copper out of the nooks and crannies in the frame was a pain.

[Bill DeShivs]

Interesting!

[Satchmoeddie]

Nickel plating plates over copper super well, and that is why almost everyone who really cares about doing good work, uses a copper under-plate. I assure you any quality nickel plate job on machined, milled, extruded, or cast aluminum, needs a copper under-plate. Zamak or other cast alloy metals will also have a very inferior plating job, if it is not under-plated with copper, or brass. The same is true for steel, white cast, or grey cast steel, milled or machined high carbon, silicon steel, low carbon, etc. Gold plate also benefits from a cuperous underplating of copper or brass. Guitars get sweat on them for hours on end, and no underplating results in the plating bubbling off, pitting, flaking off, and generally turning into a huge mess. Japanese plating was notoriously bad for many years, but now China, Korea, and Indonesia are taking the lead in crummy plating. Yes, removing old plating is a massively huge PITA, but 98% of a new plating job in in preparing the metal. If it is not too obtrusive tiny bits of copper can be left behind, if they are in an inconspicuous locations, and the plating is thin, and feathers in well with the rest of the surface. It's best to go to bare metal, and you can use an etching gel to eat away at copper plating in tight places. Copper takes on nickel plating really really well, and that is why platers use it. If the nickel plate does not take well, it is right back to square one again.

[Bill DeShivs]

Yes, nickel plates on copper well.
But that's not the reason copper is used. It's used because there is a contrast between the copper and nickel, and you can see when the nickel has fully covered the copper. Copper is not necessary on steel, and not using it does not cause an inferior product.
I do plating- nickel, gold, copper, brass, and cobalt. I also am a musician and have built (and plated) quite a few guitar parts. Copper underplating makes no difference on steel parts, sweat or otherwise. Most guitar parts are Zamak or zinc these days. These materials eventually corrode no matter what is plated on them.

[arquebus357]

I would like to verify that Colt's nickel plating had a copper base. I had an Colt Python that was a Georgia State trooper's service revolver. Where the nickel was wearing off from holster use, you could see the copper layer over the steel.

[Bill DeShivs]

And I have a Colt (factory nickel) with worn plating that shows NO copper, so they must have used both processes.