The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 21, 2021, 04:52 PM   #1
Jacket67
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 16, 2016
Posts: 180
Anything .45 colt can do that .357 can't?

I'm interested in a Ruger Blackhawk with the convertible cylinders, or a Redhawk that allows moon clips for a "conversion". Deciding between .45 colt or .357 magnum. I'd love to own a .45 colt and have .45 acp already in the mix. I'd also love to own .357 and already have 9mm, which the Blackhawk has a cylinder for. To my knowledge, the .45 colt Redhawk is the only one of the two calibers that offers the option for moon clips with the respective shorter cartridges.

The main purpose of getting the revolver would be for woods carry in Colorado, particularly when hunting/fishing. I know that .45 colt can be loaded up to ~454 casull levels, but I'm currently not in a position to reload or heading into griz country any time soon.

Mountain lions, black bear, moose, and now wolves (albeit very few) are the main 4-legged threats in the woods that I know of. Would .357 mag handle these situations on the slim chance I'd need to?

I like that the .357 Blackhawk convertible shoots 3 calibers (.357, .38, 9mm), and I'd eventually pair it up with a Henry lever. I also have two 9mm pistols so ammo commonality is still there. But, I do really like the idea of owning .45 colt and having another option to shoot .45acp as well. From what I've seen with the current pandemic, .357/.38 is often sold out but I've been to 2 local stores that had .45 colt readily stocked (a plus in my mind of owning a less-popular caliber).

Of the two caliber options, which would you buy if you were in my shoes? Whatever caliber I don't get now, I will end up with at some point. Just want to make a better pick for my current situation.
Jacket67 is offline  
Old March 21, 2021, 05:16 PM   #2
peterg7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2017
Posts: 316
The .45 is more pleasant to shoot without hearing protection.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
peterg7 is offline  
Old March 21, 2021, 05:38 PM   #3
smee78
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 2,918
I would go with the 357/38/9mm option unless you reload. 45C ammo is expensive when you can get it. I know the ammo issue is a problem now but it will likely pass and will be available again at a cheaper price.
__________________
We know exactly where one cow with Mad-cow-disease is located, among the millions and millions of cows in America, but we haven't got a clue where thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists are
smee78 is offline  
Old March 21, 2021, 06:20 PM   #4
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,434
My choice -- a number of years ago, when I made it -- was the Blackhawk in .45 Colt with the .45 ACP conversion cylinder.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old March 21, 2021, 06:53 PM   #5
jaguarxk120
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,618
The 45 Colt can be loaded to almost any power level you want, from mild to wild.
Light loads with Trailboss can be shot all day long.
Load up some heavy bullets and it can stop almost anything.
For light practice just use some .451 round balls and a light charge if Bullsye.
jaguarxk120 is offline  
Old March 21, 2021, 10:47 PM   #6
rc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 1,742
I have a 454 blackhawk. Too big to really carry comfortably and I never load it to max speeds. It's brutal at 45 Colt +P levels. Avoid the Redhawk. Super redhawk is a much better gun with two action springs instead of 1. Smith 29s are good too. For woods carry I would suggest you get a smaller 4 inch GP100. The big bores are fun enough to shoot but if I had to choose my favorite revolver cartridge it's 357 mag because you can shoot 38 specials and due to frame size you'll be much more likely to actually have the gun if you ever need to pack it around. A well placed 357 slug is going to penetrate the skull of anything in North America and loaded with cast SWC or JSP will punch through a whole bunch of shoulder and hyde. Factory 45 Colt is WEAK. A handgun is more likely a big noise maker anyways when you have something dangerous in your way. If you want more power, get the 6 inch barrel GP100.

Last edited by rc; March 21, 2021 at 10:54 PM.
rc is offline  
Old March 21, 2021, 11:37 PM   #7
TruthTellers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2016
Posts: 3,878
I'm in your shoes now with the .45 or .357 for a lever action. It's a tough choice, but in a revolver it's an easier choice.

.45 Colt is more powerful than the .357 is from a revolver when loaded up beyond the SAAMI spec for standard .45 Colt pressure. Being in Colorado puts you square in the Rockies and there are some big animals around those mountains and I would go with .45 in the Blackhawk, it's what the Blackhawk was built to shoot. If you want a 9mm revolver that can shoot .357, get the Taurus 692 when they show up for sale again at a fair price in 2023.

Between the Redhawk and the Blackhawk Convertible, they'll both be able to shoot .45 ACP and .45 Super. I load .45 ACP I get free at the club to above +P pressures and with a revolver the case support is better than a semi auto, so I don't have concerns about a rupture. The difference tho is because the Redhawk uses a moon clip, you could also shoot .45 GAP and possibly .460 Rowland with it. The only downside is the accuracy with the shorter cartridges is not quite there as it is for .45 Colt and I put that on the lack of a roll crimp and the gas blow by from the jump from the shorter cases to the throat.

You can overcome that some if you reload.

I can't tell you which one to get, both have their pros and cons, one I'll tell you straight up with the Redhawk is the stock grips are terrible. They look gorgeous, but when shooting they are not fun or comfortable. You will replace them with a Hogue at some point.
__________________
"We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."
TruthTellers is offline  
Old March 21, 2021, 11:51 PM   #8
Alan0354
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 15, 2021
Posts: 541
45 can makes a bigger hole than 357.

Last edited by Alan0354; March 22, 2021 at 01:29 AM.
Alan0354 is offline  
Old March 22, 2021, 12:43 AM   #9
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,677
As a teen in the early 70s I got to shoot and learn my Father's pistols. He had a 6" S&W Highway Patrolman, Colt Govt models in .45 and .38 Super, and a few .22 pistols.

I got to shoot them about as much as I wanted, if I provided the ammunition. And this taught me handgun reloading.

Years later when I was grown up and had finished a hitch in the Army, I got the first pistol that was actually mine. A .45 Auto. About 3 years after that, I bought a 7.5" Ruger Blackhawk .45 convertible. My idea was to use the gun with the ACP cylinder to let me plink with my .45acp ammo and not have to hunt for my brass in the weeds. I didn't bother to get any .45 Colt ammo when I picked up the gun. On the way home I decided that I should have at least some ammo for the .45 Colt cylinder and stopped at another place and found a box of Winchester 250gr that rather pointed RN with the little flat point.

I made one "minor mistake", the first time I shot the gun was with those .45 Colt rounds. WOW! The gun roared, bucked in my hand and the barrel pointed at the sky!! (SA design, another thing new to me at the time).

From that point on, I was hooked. Firing ACP ammo in that gun was ..disappointing after that. I think maybe I've put 300 ACP rounds through the gun in 38 years. Lots of .45 Colt sent downrange.

I also have several .357s and I do load .357 Magnum hot. Either round, loaded to potential will do anything a sane person would ask a handgun to do, and some times things you wouldn't expect a handgun to be able to do.

The .45 Colt can be a beast (and a big beast) and so can the .357. Personally at beast levels I find the .357 to be a slightly more viscous beast, with a much, much worse bark.

Don't confuse the types of .45 Colt ammo. The standard load is a 250gr at the original black powder speed of between mid 800s and 900fps depending on barrel length. Handloading in a Ruger can surpass that easily.

Cowboy loads are made for Cowboy Action Shooting and are low velocity loads intended to generate low recoil for faster shooting playing those shooting games.

There are also heavy "Ruger only" loads available from specialty ammo makers which rival .44 mag power. (pre-panic what is available right now is anyone's guess)

Solid frame SA revolvers like the Blackhawk do not use moon clips, though one could cut a cylinder for them you would have to take that cylinder out of the gun to load and unload it. Nothing gained there, and a big drawback added. SA revolvers use a second cylinder chambered for the rimless round. You can't use moon clips and you don't need them.

A DA revolver with its swing out cylinder can use moon clips, and needs them for convenient ejection of rimless empties. Generally.

I'd add the .45 now and go with the .357/9mm later.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old March 22, 2021, 02:45 AM   #10
Grizzly2
Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2017
Posts: 88
You can see the holes you punch in your target with the .45s but with the .38/.357 you have to walk up to the target each time to check the results

The only reason I might have preferred the .38/.357 would have been for the cowboy shoots. They can be loaded a little lighter and maybe go a bit faster with lower times. But again, the .45s may gain you a score on an edge hit being wider.

During normal times, you probably will have more versatility with the 38/357 in your ammo choices and availability. It's just more popular and has many more selections. I could be wrong but I seem to remember the 9mm cylinder not being as accurate as the 38/357. For one thing, the 9mm bullet is undersized for the barrel but with the .45s they are both sized the same. I also may have heard that the throat in the 45 acp cylinder might be different than the 45 Colt making it a bit more accurate. Don't hold me to that though.

I had the 45 convertible in the '80s and for some strange reason found the 45acp cylinder to be more accurate with my handloads than the 45 Colt. Now I wish I'd saved that cylinder when I traded it. It would be nice for the 4 5/8 Ruger .45 Colt I have now that has been worked over and is smooth as silk.

Even in the little Charter Arms snubs, I prefer the .44 Special to the .38 Special even though I alternate almost evenly sometimes. Bigger holes are, well bigger. Honestly, you should be able to enjoy either one.

For walking the woods, knowing the .45 Colt has a hot load has always been comfortable on the hip. Could be because i've had it so long and maybe because i've never really been a .357 person.
Grizzly2 is offline  
Old March 22, 2021, 06:45 AM   #11
USSR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 2017
Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY
Posts: 1,442
I have many, many .357 Magnums. I like them. However, having shot several whitetails with them, I quickly came to the conclusion that it is a marginal deer cartridge in a handgun. Fast forward to my getting my first .45 Colt, a S&W Model 25-5. It replaced my .357 Magnum for deer hunting and quickly showed it's worth. With my 265gr SWCHP load at 1050fps, it put down deer as if you were shooting them with a rifle. With the size and type of animals you are talking about in Colorado, you would be seriously undergunning yourself with a .357 Magnum IMHO.

Don
__________________
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
USSR is offline  
Old March 22, 2021, 09:45 AM   #12
pete2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,566
One thing the .45 can't do if fit in a Model 19.............................
pete2 is offline  
Old March 22, 2021, 10:04 AM   #13
Bob Wright
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 2,986
What can a .45 do that a .357 can't?

Fire a bullet 7/16" in diameter.

Fire a bullet weighing 350 grains.

Knock over the steel targets at 200 meters with reliability.

Push a bullet at 870 f.p.s. weighing 255 grains.

Bob Wright
__________________
Time spent at the reloading bench is an investment in contentment.
Bob Wright is offline  
Old March 22, 2021, 10:26 AM   #14
RickB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2000
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 8,511
Momentum, baby.
__________________
Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.
RickB is offline  
Old March 22, 2021, 10:34 AM   #15
ballardw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 1,406
For the truly adventurous get some sabots and shoot .40 at high for pistol velocities and still shoot heavier bullets than .357 and some of the .44 sabots are close to .451 and take .357 bullets...
__________________
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
All data is flawed, some just less so.
ballardw is offline  
Old March 22, 2021, 03:00 PM   #16
Drm50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 10, 2014
Posts: 1,372
I’ve got 10 45cal handguns, by accident. I don’t have any interchangeable 45acp/ 45 Colt.
I have only three 357s left and one 44 & 41 mag. I’ve found the 45s much more pleasant to shoot than 357. Also have a couple K38s I shoot a lot. I will probably keep one 357, the m27
I like the boom of 45 instead of the nasty crack of 357. And if you aren’t going to use mag loads why not drop to 38sp. 357 is a good cartridge for the one gun guy.
Drm50 is offline  
Old March 22, 2021, 04:11 PM   #17
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 3,082
no.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old March 22, 2021, 07:37 PM   #18
STORM2
Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2021
Location: Texas
Posts: 75
I always liked the two boats with the two different size holes question. Which boat sinks first?
STORM2 is offline  
Old March 22, 2021, 08:04 PM   #19
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 3,082
Quote:
I always liked the two boats with the two different size holes question. Which boat sinks first?
The 357, because it goes thru the other side too.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old March 22, 2021, 08:37 PM   #20
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 4,063
Quote:
I always liked the two boats with the two different size holes question. Which boat sinks first?
The boat with the hole in the bottom, rather than the boat with the hole in the side above the water line.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old March 22, 2021, 10:39 PM   #21
rclark
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2009
Location: Butte, MT
Posts: 2,614
All, I know is the day I was in the middle of a small creek fly fishing, staring 'up' at a bull Moose chewing Willows on the bank ... It got me to thinking about the pea shooter on my hip. From then on I decided to carry a .4X... Truth be told, I doubt I could unholster in time anyway if he decided to jump me being only a few feet away... What-ever the pros and cons, it made/makes me more comfortable to now lug a big bore. Also, reading about those that actually went and still go looking for trouble (hunters), you don't find many that carry a pea shooter when handgun hunting unless it is for medium/small game or varmint.
__________________
A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.
rclark is offline  
Old March 23, 2021, 06:50 AM   #22
rodfac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 3,619
Keith once said, and I paraphrase here, that if you were limited to factory ammunition alone, the .45 Colt wouldn't be a bad choice. 250+ grains of bullet traveling at over 800 ft per second is nothing to sneeze at.

As I recall, he'd done some extensive work with the .45, but came to the conclusion that it was too fat for the cylinders/strength of the arms then available when subjected to some of his robust loading practices. Hence his predilection for the .44 Spl and later Magnum.

While I like both cartridges (.357 & .454 Colt) and would feel adequately armed with either as a finishing round when big game hunting, I'd say that more weight and a larger caliber with appropriate speed is necessary, when hunting with a short gun...read one of the big 40+ caliber Magnums or the .45 Colt loaded to "Ruger Only"levels.

YMMv, Rod
__________________
Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

Last edited by rodfac; March 23, 2021 at 06:56 AM.
rodfac is offline  
Old March 23, 2021, 09:00 AM   #23
JustJake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2020
Posts: 494
Quote:
Anything .45 colt can do that .357 can't?
Well, you never see ".357" Peacemakers being used in O.K.Corral re-enactments.
__________________
I use the Jake Brake every chance I get.
Don't care if it annoys you.
Hear me now?!
JustJake is offline  
Old March 23, 2021, 10:30 AM   #24
stinkeypete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 22, 2010
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,286
.45 Colt Ruger Only loads are NOTHING LIKE .454 Casull.

.45 Colt can hunt white tails, elk, moose, bear. .357 is not the best choice for game animals over 150 pounds and one might even say "irresponsible" first choice for larger animals if that's your hunting plan.

You're in Colorado. I think you should decide what you will really do with your pistol.

Hunt or Hike About with it or Plink.
Hunt.
If you're really going to hunt elk, moose or bear- .454 all the way. I owned a Freedom Arms 7 1/2" .454 Casull and weight is your very good friend- recoil is fierce. FIERCE. Ruger is now offering a "new model super blackhawk" in .454 casull.

.45 Colt loaded for Ruger Only is not an irresponsible choice for any of the game animals above, in my opinion. .357 is not a responsible choice unless you don't mind letting many animals go because you are not 100% sure you have that perfect shot placement. Recoil is STOUT.

Walking about.
45 Ounces empty, more than three pounds loaded. A Blackhawk is a lot of steel to take on your hip for a 8 mile hike in the mountains. It's heavy. For a .357, it's unacceptably heavy. Until you light off a hot .357 round because then that weight soaks up a snappy little round that's no powderpuff

My walkabout is the 16 oz. LCRX 3" in .38 +p. (My postal scale confirms that weight.) With .38 +p, recoul is snappy.

My other walking-about gun is a Ruger Single Six in .32 H&R Magnum. The smaller Single Six frame gets the weight down to 2 1/2 pounds. It's not as heavy as the .357 Blackhawk and does just the same number on rabbits or pine cones. Recoil is more than a .22 so you feel like it's there and big enough that it doesn't sound like you're spitting at a metal plate.


The idea of the conversion cylinder is great. In practice, I have not heard of anyone really using them. They sit in the grey box and help when you go to sell the pistol.

Plink.
I mean you just want a single action revolver to take out because you enjoy shooting.

Any Ruger Single Action is highly recommended. Out of the box they are all pretty good. After a while, they are all easy to slick up a little with just a little lubrication and changing a couple of springs from Wolf. $15 home gunsmith project.

After many years of trading through just about every Blackhawk, here is what I have whittled my collection down to:

Bowen "perfected hunter" .44 Magnum Bisley Blackhawk. My dad gave it to me, and it's arguably the pinnacle of Blackhawks. Why .44 Magnum? Well, there are factory loads from cowboy to heavy hunting. My old man didn't always feel like reloading ammo.

Ruger .32 H&R Bisley Single Six. Since I reload, all I can say is.. wow. This thing is so fun to shoot! There is no need to shoot every tin can with a howitzer. You can't buy one, which is partly why I love it, but you can get a Single Seven in .327 Fed Mag and simply shoot less stout loads. I like to keep my stuff sub-sonic because why make all that noise?

.38 LCRx. It's not pretty, it's not elitist. It weighs a pound. You toss it in your jacket pocket and go for a hike.

The thing about .44 Magnum or .45 Colt- you could not ask for a better cartridge to learn how to reload. If you want to be serious, reloading takes you to the next level. Make your pistol do what you want, plain and simple.
__________________
My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon.
Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.

Last edited by stinkeypete; March 23, 2021 at 11:26 AM.
stinkeypete is offline  
Old March 23, 2021, 01:41 PM   #25
Jacket67
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 16, 2016
Posts: 180
Reading some of the comments tells me I wasn't clear enough in the purpose of my "hunting pistol".

I would never intend on this being used as a primary hunting tool. It would be carried as a sidearm/protection gun secondary to my bow or rifle for the hunt. If that sways your opinions, please let me know.
Jacket67 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.10177 seconds with 10 queries