The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 6, 2011, 06:00 PM   #1
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,839
gunbreaking a troubled dog?

hello all.
here's my problem. my mom has a beautiful yellow lab that is perfectly suited as a bird dog. he loves water no matter the temperature and if you throw a stick for him you'll be his best friend for a month. the only problem is once when he was a hell raising puppy he ran away and one of our neighbors nailed him with a load of bird shot so now he is terrified of guns. even paintball guns and firecrackers have him cowering at the front door, whining. do I have any hope of turning him into a hunting dog or is he just doomed to be the family pet?
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

Last edited by tahunua001; November 6, 2011 at 10:15 PM.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old November 6, 2011, 06:15 PM   #2
buck460XVR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2006
Posts: 4,341
Many a gunshy dog has been turned into a great hunting dog. Patience and showing him that guns and the noise they produce are a good thing is the way to solve the problem. If he loves it when you throw a stick, throw one and then shoot a cap gun or a .22 when he is a good distance away and actively chasing it. Once he identifies the sound of a gun to something fun, you can move up to shotties if need be. If he's afraid of the guns themselves, you need to have one around when he is fed. Just set it by his food bowl. Don't know about Idaho, but where I live, it's against the law to shoot someone's dog unless it is threatening bodily harm. Was there a vet bill?
buck460XVR is offline  
Old November 6, 2011, 06:36 PM   #3
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,839
we live in the country and everyone owns guns so it's impossible to tell who shot him, it could have even been some idiot driving by and wanted some target practice. we live on a reservation and stray dogs run rampant and some are even mean and large enough that they'll lead packs all over the county. generally shooting stray dogs is not frowned on outside of city limits but it is still illegal if it has a collar and tags(which this dog had). there was no vet bill but it is not fun to try and dig bird shot out of a 6 month old dogs rump. luckily he must have been several yards out and booking it because he only caught two pellets

he is terrified of the guns themselves so as soon as he sees them he runs back to the house...usually we can sneak one and he doesn't notice until we shoot then he finished the task of fetching but he dropped that stick at my feet and and ran straight for the house...I've tried hooking his leash to my waist and shot a few dozen rounds out of the 22 at some pop cans but the poor guy was shaking so bad I decided to stop before traumatizing him anymore.

I may try to either feed him with the gun sitting there or maybe make him sit and if he doesn't move after a shot I can give him a treat.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
tahunua001 is offline  
Old November 6, 2011, 10:16 PM   #4
warbirdlover
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2009
Location: central Wisconsin
Posts: 2,324
I think you're fighting a losing battle if he's that tramatized by the sight of a rifle.
warbirdlover is offline  
Old November 7, 2011, 03:40 PM   #5
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,247
It's pretty hard to get them de-sensitized to guns and gunshots. I had a rescue Weimaraner that someone had shot with a shotgun, you could feel the pellets under her skin on the right side of her ribs. She was scared of anything you pointed at her, including guns, cameras, fingers, etc, and any loud noises would have her hiding in the basement (4th of July was no fun, believe me). But she was birdy as heck, so we would get her out to chase cripples and find lost birds after hunters had gone through a field, and she would find and retrieve birds just fine as long as she didn't hear any shooting. I took some birds one time and laid them on my vest with my shotgun to take a picture, and she came over and laid down right next to the birds and stayed there. She kept giving the shotgun a funny look, but she was just too birdy to leave the birds. I worked her in the field without shooting over her, and she did great. Started walking with a 20 ga and letting her work, then eventually transitioned into shooting a bird when she was on point and letting her get it, then walking back to the car. As long as she was in the birds, the shot didn't seem to bother her. By the time she was 12, she was deaf as a doornail, so she would hunt just fine. So, in summation, yes, it can be done, but it takes time. Lots of time. And trust.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Scorch is offline  
Old November 7, 2011, 07:19 PM   #6
grubbylabs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 2009
Location: Hansen Idaho
Posts: 1,465
Where in Idaho are you? If you are close to Pocatello I could try to help you out. but if you are in N. Idaho then I think its a little far.

Go to family dollar or other similar store and get a cheap cap gun.

Leave the dog in another room and let him here you put the food in the bowl and then bring it into the room you feed him in. Do this till he knows what is going on every time.

Then when he is used to that, put the food in the bowl then fire the cap gun, then give him the food.

It will likely take a while but he should get accustomed to the shooting and when he does you can move of to a starter pistol that uses a 209 primmer, then you can move up from there. Just remember to go slow.


And in Idaho, if your dog is near livestock it is fair game even if it has a collar.
__________________
* (Swinging club) Whack! whack! whack! *

Nope, the old nag's still dead .
(Capt Charlie)
grubbylabs is offline  
Old November 7, 2011, 08:39 PM   #7
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,839
GRUBBY,
no livestock around, it's all wheat and pea farms mostly. he would have had to have run about 4 miles before he came to the closest livestock.
I'm up outside of Lewiston so Pocatello is a while out. I like the dollar store cap gun idea, he responds to treats and clickers pretty well so the cap and food idea sounds like that might be the best bet.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
tahunua001 is offline  
Old November 8, 2011, 02:27 PM   #8
bejay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2008
Posts: 195
may be hard to train the dog from being gun shy some good ideas mentioned be interesting to see if it works for you.
bejay is offline  
Old November 8, 2011, 02:51 PM   #9
Saltydog235
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2010
Location: Pawleys Island
Posts: 1,563
I had a Shorthair, Abby, that I messed up and shot too close to her when she wasn't but 4 or 5 months old. She got real shy of the gun to the point she stayed between my legs every time I picked it up, no matter where. However, she loved the birds, retrieving and working. I sent her to a trainer that worked with her some and she broke it. I took her home and went hunting, as soon as I broke open the O/U its was the same. I finally switched over to a Benelli and she broke a little away and worked but was still hesitant. I put the gun down and let her work the birds, run them up and get really involved. I'd let her go and wait until she was well off before just pulling the trigger to make noise. Eventually she got to where she hardly ever paid attention to it and ran with the boys. She ended up being a heck of a birddog and family member.

I've had some good dogs in my life but there isn't one that can ever take her place with me. Give it time, be gentle but firm, don't push it too had and work with the dog, take what it gives you and build on it. Patience is the key to get one back.
Saltydog235 is offline  
Old November 8, 2011, 02:57 PM   #10
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,839
I would love it if he would just cower between my legs haha, at least that way I would have something to work with...he's a very smart dog, he recognizes guns whether it's a paintball gun, a nail gun, a revolver or an AR15...he doesn't spook with pipes, poles, rebar, and doesn't spook when you point at him but as soon as he sees any kind of gun he is outta there.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
tahunua001 is offline  
Old November 8, 2011, 03:22 PM   #11
Saltydog235
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2010
Location: Pawleys Island
Posts: 1,563
Abby knew the difference between the Benelli and the O/U and a rifle.
Saltydog235 is offline  
Old November 8, 2011, 08:14 PM   #12
grubbylabs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 2009
Location: Hansen Idaho
Posts: 1,465
The important part is to develop a routine and introduce it slowly. Pretty soon you will be setting the food dish down and then shooting the cap gun and he will be all over the food. But Like I said I would start out with letting him hear the food hit the bowl and then after he is used to that, shoot the cap gun either just before or just after the food hits the bowl. He will soon learn to associate the cap gun with something positive. Then you can move up to something louder like a starter pistol.
__________________
* (Swinging club) Whack! whack! whack! *

Nope, the old nag's still dead .
(Capt Charlie)
grubbylabs is offline  
Old November 8, 2011, 11:30 PM   #13
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 8,262
pans

I start my pups with pans. Yeah, soup pans. Put the food down, back off 20-30 feet or more and and wack pans together. After a couple of days, , I do it closer, etc and soon right over them.

Then I go to the cap pistol, and I do it backed off, 20-30 feet or more. Work in close over a week or so.

Then .22, same deal, then ........eventually the .410, all starting from a distance, all slow and easy. Regular, every feed .

MIght try that w/ your lab. Heck, you might start with hand claps.
bamaranger is offline  
Old November 9, 2011, 06:46 AM   #14
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,839
the pans wont work since it's not the loud noises that seems to disturb him but the sounds resembling gunshots. he loves clapping and isn't phased by banging metal. he isn't bothered at all when we're splitting firewood with mauls and wedges but if he thinks there's a gun he runs
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
tahunua001 is offline  
Old November 9, 2011, 08:54 AM   #15
L_Killkenny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,676
You can and probably should try much of the advice given but in reality, I give you less (maybe way less) than a 10% chance of fixing this dog. Tried it all before on multiple dogs with zero success.

LK
L_Killkenny is offline  
Old November 9, 2011, 09:52 AM   #16
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
It can be VERY EASY to fix or it won't happen at all...

I prefer to find a shotgun sport field or a gun range if no shot gun field around...

Park a far piece from the place in the best "dog walking" direction... Walk the dog normally getting closer and closer with frequent stops and petting etc. until he calms down and repeat.

Work slow and steady... I have broke dogs of this who would pee down their leg if a firecracker went off 200 yards away...

Some dogs will not get over it, IMHO, no matter what that california people trainer says...

Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old November 9, 2011, 10:56 AM   #17
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
HogDogs advice is very good.... sounds very "Dog Whisperer" to me. In fact, Caesar had one dog with this very problem. His method wasn't EXACTLY like Brent's but very similar. Keeping the dog calm is key. Start with tiring them out with a good long run THEN do as Brent suggests.
Tired and calm makes good training.
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives...
...they just don't plan not to.
-Andy Stanley
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old November 9, 2011, 11:32 AM   #18
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,839
I dont know what you are talking about with people trainers and caeser and brent and all that but yes it is all good advice
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
tahunua001 is offline  
Old November 9, 2011, 12:42 PM   #19
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578

Caesar is "The Dog Whisperer"

Brent is HogDogs.... Also known as "The Pig Whisperer"

Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old November 9, 2011, 12:52 PM   #20
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,839
ok that sheds a little light on the situation.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
tahunua001 is offline  
Old November 9, 2011, 03:08 PM   #21
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
Caesar Milan is the Dog Whisperer of TV fame...
His claim to fame is... "I rehabilitate dogs... But I train people."

So I call him the "People Trainer"

He is usually SPOT ON but I feel there are genetically pre-disposed dogs who will never "rehabilitate" including some "dog aggressive" specimens from "game dog" stock we use as catch dogs... some just cannot be broke and not all need trained by "Bad Owners" to be severely "broken arrow"...

Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old November 9, 2011, 03:53 PM   #22
rbursek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2011
Location: Milwaukkee, WI
Posts: 152
I sure find the original post unusual or the dog is!! The dog was shot once in the ass, hit with just a couple pellets and is now afraid of even the sight of a gun, but not the sight of vehicles. That is one heck of an intuitive dog!!! I just think this is strange.
Bob
rbursek is offline  
Old November 9, 2011, 05:09 PM   #23
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
Bursek, Don't try to reason... I have many dogs who never felt the "hot shot" but they find some where else to be when I walk out with it...

Many of my dogs don't like sight of a gun. They will not be happy about goin' for a ride if I take a gun with me and it is a single shot ever month or so to one per week that they know.

Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old November 10, 2011, 11:27 AM   #24
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,839
hogdogs...

you may have unwittingly gave me another idea. he loves to go for rides, especially if he gets to ride in the back seat instead of the bed. maybe loading him up and putting a couple guns in the seat next to him might help to break his initial fear of the guns themselves.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
tahunua001 is offline  
Old November 10, 2011, 06:17 PM   #25
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
Load the guns first and see if he will load... I have dogs that relate the sight of a gun in my hands in the house to the boom they will soon hear but none have a problem with the gun leaning on the wall and such...

They ain't afraid of guns... they are afraid of me with guns...

Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.07137 seconds with 10 queries