If the CLEO wont sign off? - Page 2

frick74 · March 8, 2011, 02:26 PM

Had the CLEO refuse here in PA, Westmoreland County Sherriff, when, it was the Sheriff that was considered the CLEO, now its your local police chief, or the lowest level Officer that would KNOW YOU the best.

Bottom line, the court ruled he had no obligation to sign the form.

What about a corporation?

I thought a corporation could do what a trust does, but the assets are owned and utilized by the owners, with no concerns for the use of the assets as in a trust.

5RWill · November 27, 2011, 02:43 AM

EDIT nvm can't use the farm as i thought it was mistakenly a corporation, it's a partner ship.

I know resurrecting an old thread. But my birthday is less than 3 months away and i'll be taking a trip to Mississippi auto arms inc to have a chat with them about getting my Ops. Inc. 12th model. Since my dad farms is it possible to write it off on the farm. Treating it as a corporation. Hence the A + B farms inc.?

260 Rem · December 9, 2011, 11:16 AM

Quote:

It no longer matters what a Police Chief or Sheriff personally thinks about form-4's.

The Supreme Court has ruled...ANY public official who refuses to review any application for a lawful process becomes PERSONALLY liable and cannot be defended by the political subdivision that employ's Him/Her for his illegal conduct.

This case came from very strange bedfellows....the applicant for a parade permit was the KKK., who the Sheriff did not like, ...and their attorneys, the ACLU ran the appeal all the way up. I have had a few CLEO's refuse to review and consider form-4's. All I did is ask the name of their City/County Attorney was...and made a phone call. In every case, I had a call back from the CLEO saying PLEASE submit the form-4 and it would be considered......and all came back signed off.

Has anyone else tried this tactic to get signoff?

Indi · December 9, 2011, 11:37 AM

Hi, good luck on getting your suppresor. I went the cleo sign off route,got my fingerprints and all, and 2 months later the cleo told me he wouldnt sign off

i was disappointed but when i told my class 3 he redid the paperwork, and we did the trust route. Now im waiting for ATF to approve my paperwork, they already cashed my checks for the stamp. I would recomend you check out major-malfunction.com this is where i bought my cans. I was given a price well below msrp. Paperwork was pretty simple. Once you get your paperwork completed and sent in you can check nfatracker.com to see your statis.

To the above post. I wish i knew that before, I know CLEO do not have to sign the paperwork, but im sure they can not reject you from trying.

Skans · December 9, 2011, 12:08 PM

Your Class III dealers know which CLEO's will and won't sign off in a particular region. Also, your CLEO knows if he will/won't sign off. A phone call can save a lot of trouble and paperwork.

divil · December 9, 2011, 12:54 PM

There is no one particular LE official for any given area that you need to sign off, according to the ATF:

Q: What law enforcement officials’ certifications on an application to transfer or make an NFA weapon are acceptable to ATF?
As provided by regulations, certifications by the local chief of police, sheriff of the county, head of the State police, or State or local district attorney or prosecutor are acceptable. The regulations also provide that certifications of other officials are appropriate if found in a particular case to be acceptable to the Director. Examples of other officials who have been accepted in specific situations include State attorneys general and judges of State courts having authority to conduct jury trials in felony cases.

[27 CFR 479.63 and 479.85]

5RWill · December 9, 2011, 03:16 PM

I talked a little to the class 3 dealer in oxford (1hr hour away). They said they would be willing to help. Which i'm going to talk to them but i'm also going the trust rout. I want it where if my dad want's to take my SPR with the Ops. Inc. 7th model out to the farm just incase he sees a beaver/coyote he doesn't have to worry about it. Or per say if i get a suppressor for the 18" .243. I want my brother and my dad to be able to use it.

Skans · December 10, 2011, 08:46 AM

Here's the problem with getting Judges, District Attorneys etc. to sign off:

1. They generally are going to be less familiar with firearms laws than the Police.

2. They are not going to have access to any ability to investigate the applicant to verify he's not a drunk, wife-beater, etc. (The local paper made these 2 things were real issues when we had a CLEO that would sign off: "SHERIFF SCARY SIGNS PAPERWORK TO ALLOW DRUNK WIFE-BEATER TO HAVE A MACHINEGUN")

3. If a Judge, etc. signs for some people (friends), but not for others, that has a bad appearance.

November 27, 2011, 02:43 AM	#27
5RWill Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,654	EDIT nvm can't use the farm as i thought it was mistakenly a corporation, it's a partner ship. I know resurrecting an old thread. But my birthday is less than 3 months away and i'll be taking a trip to Mississippi auto arms inc to have a chat with them about getting my Ops. Inc. 12th model. Since my dad farms is it possible to write it off on the farm. Treating it as a corporation. Hence the A + B farms inc.? __________________ Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me." Last edited by 5RWill; November 27, 2011 at 12:09 PM.

December 9, 2011, 03:16 PM	#32
5RWill Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,654	I talked a little to the class 3 dealer in oxford (1hr hour away). They said they would be willing to help. Which i'm going to talk to them but i'm also going the trust rout. I want it where if my dad want's to take my SPR with the Ops. Inc. 7th model out to the farm just incase he sees a beaver/coyote he doesn't have to worry about it. Or per say if i get a suppressor for the 18" .243. I want my brother and my dad to be able to use it. __________________ Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me."

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March 8, 2011, 02:26 PM	#26
frick74 Member Join Date: March 7, 2011 Posts: 34	Had the CLEO refuse here in PA, Westmoreland County Sherriff, when, it was the Sheriff that was considered the CLEO, now its your local police chief, or the lowest level Officer that would KNOW YOU the best. Bottom line, the court ruled he had no obligation to sign the form. What about a corporation? I thought a corporation could do what a trust does, but the assets are owned and utilized by the owners, with no concerns for the use of the assets as in a trust.

December 9, 2011, 11:37 AM	#29
Indi Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2011 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 231	Hi, good luck on getting your suppresor. I went the cleo sign off route,got my fingerprints and all, and 2 months later the cleo told me he wouldnt sign off i was disappointed but when i told my class 3 he redid the paperwork, and we did the trust route. Now im waiting for ATF to approve my paperwork, they already cashed my checks for the stamp. I would recomend you check out major-malfunction.com this is where i bought my cans. I was given a price well below msrp. Paperwork was pretty simple. Once you get your paperwork completed and sent in you can check nfatracker.com to see your statis. To the above post. I wish i knew that before, I know CLEO do not have to sign the paperwork, but im sure they can not reject you from trying.

December 9, 2011, 12:08 PM	#30
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Your Class III dealers know which CLEO's will and won't sign off in a particular region. Also, your CLEO knows if he will/won't sign off. A phone call can save a lot of trouble and paperwork.

December 9, 2011, 12:54 PM	#31
divil Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2009 Posts: 506	There is no one particular LE official for any given area that you need to sign off, according to the ATF: Q: What law enforcement officials’ certifications on an application to transfer or make an NFA weapon are acceptable to ATF? As provided by regulations, certifications by the local chief of police, sheriff of the county, head of the State police, or State or local district attorney or prosecutor are acceptable. The regulations also provide that certifications of other officials are appropriate if found in a particular case to be acceptable to the Director. Examples of other officials who have been accepted in specific situations include State attorneys general and judges of State courts having authority to conduct jury trials in felony cases. [27 CFR 479.63 and 479.85]

December 10, 2011, 08:46 AM	#33
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Here's the problem with getting Judges, District Attorneys etc. to sign off: 1. They generally are going to be less familiar with firearms laws than the Police. 2. They are not going to have access to any ability to investigate the applicant to verify he's not a drunk, wife-beater, etc. (The local paper made these 2 things were real issues when we had a CLEO that would sign off: "SHERIFF SCARY SIGNS PAPERWORK TO ALLOW DRUNK WIFE-BEATER TO HAVE A MACHINEGUN") 3. If a Judge, etc. signs for some people (friends), but not for others, that has a bad appearance.