why does everybody hate uber magnums?

[10-96]

In a way, isn't using a .243 on prairie dogs sorta uber-magnum-ish?

Uh-oh... Ladies and gentlemen please excuse me- I seem to have found myself awash in guilt.

Great post Globemaster. Well said.

[Art Eatman]

Two sorta-separate facets to this, seems like. One is the distance factor; the other is that of the power.

Distance: More of a challenge to one's shooting skill than to one's skill at getting somewhere in the vicinity of up close and personal. All in all, it seems to me that only a miniscule percentage of all hunters try for these Omigod hellaciously long shots. Not worth talking about, really.

The power thing, however, seems to be far more common in the world of Magnumitis. As near as I can tell from gunstore BSing, many of the people who want more power than is commonly used (generally, .30-06 and on downward from there) seem to believe that such power is necessary for what I call mid-range shots: From 200 to 300 yards, approximately.

I'm talking here about the guy who generally will never see a buck out past a hundred yards or so, and rarely see a buck which will field-dress over 150 pounds. But he still gets sucked in for a 7Mag or a .300 WinMag or even more.

I dunno. Maybe it's part of a dream of going to Big Elk country and seeing a Royal at 500 yards. But it's sure not part of 95% of whitetail hunting...

[mt_dren]

I do not hate them...

how many times have you hunted hard all season, and there is that trophy bull/fat cow right at the limit for your gun?
well the uber magnums have been designed just for that!

:barf:
It happens...oh well the elk wins this year...it is called hunting not shooting. Just because a rifle has a longer shooting range doesn't mean the person has the skill or knowledge to do so successfully. Also, if it is 500 yards away and I can't get move another 200 yards closer maybe I should rethink my hunting strategies and tactics.

Additionally, I'm just happy to be out hunting with family and friends. You don't have to shoot something to have a good time.

i know everybody says "too many people just wound the animal at long range" .

I would agree...how many people have regular access to practice at 500-1000 yards?

what about the .30-30, .308, .243 hunters out there that get a bad shot at close range?

It happens regardless of caliber. Just because you use a magnum at 100 yards doesn't mean it is dead. It is all about placement.

you might say: "what about the guys that go out and and shoot 500+ yd after only sighting in their rifles?"
to which i reply, "what about the even more people that do the same with their .270's and such?"

I know MY limits and stick by them...not the rifle's limits as my rifles are plenty accurate past my limits.

so what if shooting at $500+ yds isn't YOUR idea of hunting, if you like to sneak around with your "under powered" .30-30 and get within 50yd of of the target go ahead.
i say hunt your own hunt, and let others do the same.

What is next? Using tanks at distances 20 miles away? I can easily walk within 500 yards or most game I'm hunting so where is the challenge?

[Bigfatts]

how many times have you hunted hard all season, and there is that trophy bull/fat cow right at the limit for your gun?

Never. 100yds is a long shot in the Florida scrub. I don't mind people who hunt with the super duper uber deer stompers but it's not needed in 99% of ethical hunting. I hunt with a .30-06, if there is an animal outside it's range limit I wouldn't take the shot even with an uber whatever. If you want to hunt with a .338 super mag that's cool, but don't take shots you shouldn't. Me, I'll stick with my old under powered .30-06.

[Slamfire]

If you don't use a Magnum, you will be "robbed" of a kill



And then, because you are a real man, using a real magnum, you don't have to aim. The magnum will do the rest for you.




Me, I don't care for the recoil. And I don't care for the attitudes I have observed behind the uber magnums.

[Fat White Boy]

I notice in the Weatherby ads, the guy isn't wearing Camo!! Obviously an outdated ad...

[sserdlihc]

I don't hate them or anyone who shoots them. I just hate to shoot them.

[Kreyzhorse]

I don't hate the uber's, it's just that in most cases, they don't do any thing any better than a standard cartridge.

My opinion is that most uber mags are sold to drive new gun sales and not because they are really just better rounds.

[GeauxTide]

I've had three Mags, a Mark V 7mmWeatherby, a Mod 70 7mmRM and a M 700 7mmRM. I just gave my 70 Classic LH to my oldest son and got a RH to replace it. A bad cervical disk has increased my recoil sensitivity over the years.

The thing I've noticed about the Ultra Mag type cartridges is the general average of 8% velocity increase for a 40% increase in powder. Chronograph results rarely equate the factory claims. The 2.5" belted case still gives a much better increase in velocity over the '06 based cartridges for the amount of powder increase.

[BGutzman]

[L_Killkenny]

I'm gonna admit it, I'm a magnum hater. Why? Because in 99.9% of hunting cases they aren't needed. It's funny how critters have evolved into having armor plating. Rounds like the .357 and 30/30 are no longer powerful enough. Etc. Etc. I don't hate long range hunting. As a matter of fact I'm guilty of taking many shots that aren't with-in the "point blank range" of the gun and cartridge I'm shooting. Whether it be my 12 ga, my 22-250, my 30/30, etc etc. So you could say I hate em because of the gun rags and internet zealots that tout them. If you "NEED" a magnum you're doing something wrong. I don't care if the range is 20 yards or 1000. I don't care if you're shooting a gopher or a grizzly.


Now, I don't mind all mags. I like the .357 and the .22 mag. That's about it.
LK

[HiBC]

Actually,my long range varmint rifle for coyotes and even an occasional prairie dog is an M-70 Laredo in 7mm Rem mag with a Leupold 4.5-14 M-1 long range .

When I'm elk hunting,I have a light,#3 douglas bbl'd FN with a Garret Accra-lite in .375 Chatfield Taylor,(270 gr bullet at 2600 FPS).Decent 300 yd trajectory.Do I need it?No,I would happily use my .257 to kill elk.I built the .375 after an Alaskan trip that involved a bear taking a bite of my wife.
And,I enjoyed having coffee with Elmer Keith.I really like that rifle.

If my wallet and priorities would permit,I'd like to build a 338 Lapua or a 338 RUM just to shoot 300 gr MK's at rocks 3/4 mile away.Seems to be almost like having a .50.

.For me,it is not at all about "hating?" a caliber.(bizarre concept)

What sometimes occurs,it is a lot like buying a car or motorcycle that has 780 hp and goes 170 mph.That is not a big deal.

But we have all seen what happens when a young fellow's first wheels are a 160 mph crotch rocket.

Buying a machine does not make a 160 mph driver,and buying a magnum does not make a 700 yd shooter.While there are special high performance rifles like the 300 win,the 338 lapua,and the 50 bmg being used by our military snipers,the standard is the .308.

I know of folks who think pheasant hunting is about piling into a 4wd suburban,going to a "hayseed state" and racing across planted winter wheat fields ,jumping out and blazing away when birds start to rise.
They told stories of cross the canyon herd shooting with .338's.at 600.700 yds.That sort of activity,I hate.

I think muscle cars and fast motorcycles are way cool.I'd really like to have an AC Cobra with a boss 429 under the hood.

But I drive a 1983 Tercel 4wd wagonFor 13 years,same one..Because,folks,its like a .257 Roberts.In its own way,it is better than an AC Cobra.Partly because I have not had a traffic ticket in over 20 years

Partly,it has 6 gears forward with a granny low lock,and gets 28 mpg on the highway,and takes me anywhere I need to go.Just like a .257

[sc928porsche]

No such thing as overkill, only underkill.

[davlandrum]

I am not a hater, but they are not for me. I had a 7mm Weatherby Mag for a while, and I would flinch just taking it out of the safe. I hated that gun because it would drain my wallet when I PRACTICED with it (which I kinda feel compelled to do ) and beat me black and blue while doing it.

I am a 300 yard at best shooter. I do not have the time to spend at the range, nor the resources to be more than that. For what I do, you could make the arguement that my -06 is overkill, but to each their own.

No such thing as overkill, only underkill.

Actually, there is no such thing as underkill either. What there is, is a lack of understanding the limitations of both the cartridge and the shooter. If you stick to the limits of that combo then dead is dead.

[James R. Burke]

My wife uses a .243 for deer, and if she gets a bad shot at any range she just wont take it. Leave them walk with any caliber. Mags are great if thats what your into I have nothing bad to say about them. I reload for a few friends that use Mags. They always score, but know when and when not to take a shot. That really holds true for distance on leaving them walk if you need to. How many practice that even 200 plus yard shot, and are good at it. I mean in a fast sitiuation. No doubt lots of folks on this forum are pro's at it and take great pride in there shooting skills. I wish I could shoot that could, thats why I need to know when to leave them walk, with whatever caliber I am using. But back to the Mags nothing wrong with them at all there are some great ones out there. Again there are lots of folks who have great skills at long range shooting. I wish I did. At one time I was alot better but I guess that age thing creeped up on me, even reloading shooting alot, I know the rifle is bettet than me. Were I hunt most shots are under 100 yards, and I would say the average is about 50 to 75 but there fast, and quick. You need to decide very fast if it's a good shot and what you want, or again leave it walk and wonder. Which I think is better than a wounded animal, or something that was not has big as you wanted. If you leave it walk who knows might come back. Or the next year bigger. Which I have had happen to me a few times, and I new it was the same deer only bigger. Just my thoughts.

[kwells6]

for me... the only "magnum" i was is the poor man's magnum, the 35 Whelen... it will kill ANYTHING i'd ever want to hunt, and if it wont, my 45-70 will...

I use a 243 and a 30-30 on deer. nothing more is needed. Dropped a buck this year at 78 yds with a 243. thats the LONGEST shot I've ever had to take, and it was comfortable to me.

[Ryanfromcanada]

"It happens...oh well the elk wins this year...it is called hunting not shooting. Just because a rifle has a longer shooting range doesn't mean the person has the skill or knowledge to do so successfully. Also, if it is 500 yards away and I can't get move another 200 yards closer maybe I should rethink my hunting strategies and tactics.

Additionally, I'm just happy to be out hunting with family and friends. You don't have to shoot something to have a good time."


Exactly , you beat me to it. Im not so blood thirsty as to shoot at a deer too far. I feel im a slightly better than average shot, Not amazing but pretty solid. I still dont like to take shots past 100 yards with my 32 winchester because further than that and there is a much better chance that i might miss the mark by a few inches. I can ring the gong at 200 yards with that rifle standing, but i can ring it better at 100 !

[5whiskey]

Sorry, haven't taken time to read any other post before putting my .02 cents in there (I rarely do this, but will now).

I'll tell you exactly what irks me about uber magnums. It's not the fact that they exist, because they do in fact have a use. What irks me is the macho mentality of "I need a magnum". I feel it's a form of compensation for a percieved inadequacy. I'm not saying that everyone who owns a magnum suffers from this, but it definately exists. Why else would someone subject themselves to heavy recoil and twice the price ammo to go tree stand hunting for bambi in the woods, where the longest shot will be under 100 yards. It happens. Often.

There are legit uses for magnums. If you're going to harvest a ram on the other side of the gorge from you, well a 7 mag will make that 700 yard shot easier and deliver more energy to the target. The truth is, though, that very few hunters have that level of skill or the time to develope it.

My practical reasons for being anti magnum is that I target shoot often. Magnums are simply more expensive to keep running. You're looking at ammo that's at least 50% more expensive (no I don't roll my own), and barrels having a throat life of 2 or 3000 rounds.



To sum it up, I'm not a hater of a magnum. You don't have to list your reasons for owning a magnum to me. If you seem intelligent, I will assume you have a good reason for owning one. If you seem very noobish to hunting and/or shooting, I will assume you have a magnum simply because it's a magnum and not out of a real need. BTW, this post comes from an owner of a 7mm magnum . I shoot .270 and below alot more these days

[hickstick_10]

That being said I'm a hypocrit, I hunt with a Henry 44 magnum

[cubesmoothie]

Smacking deer and squirrels with a .338 lapua is epic fun. Barely notice the recoil after a 5th of vodka. Why should i care if someone things its wrong? I'll go bag a whitetail with a .25 acp if i damnwell please.

[Quickdraw Limpsalot]

I don't hate 'em...

...I just don't need 'em.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by cubesmoothie

Smacking deer and squirrels with a .338 lapua is epic fun. Barely notice the recoil after a 5th of vodka.

Very classy of you. Yeeeesssss, go shoot squirrels with a big gun while you're DRUNK! That is not only stupid, but illegal in some places.

[Daryl]

Like anything, they can be "mis-used" pretty easily.

I wish I had a nickel for every "hunter" I've talked with who thought that having a .300 RUM or some such similar chambered rifle automatically made them a long range marksman. Too many folks know next to nothing about exterior ballistics and terminal affects of their chosen bullet, yet they'll never admit it.

To the question "what about that animal that's just at the edge of your rifle's capability...the uber-magnums are made just for that"? Every cartridge and rifle has a "limit" to it's range, and folks tend to try stretching those ranges. In the case of the "uber-mags", their effective range can easily extend far beyond the capabilities of the shooter.

Which means naught if the shooter can actually use the rifle/cartridge/load combo to the limit, or is willing to limit themselves to their own abilities. Too many aren't, and most won't admit it fer nuthin'.

So, I don't "hate" the uber-magnums. What I dislike is the way they're used by some who are incompetent in their own abilities, won't admit it even to themselves, but think that using an "uber-mag" will somehow make them better equipped for long range shooting.

Most north american big game will be just as dead with a .308 as it will be with a 30/378 Wby with good shot placement from each out to 300 yards. The idea behind the "uber-mags" is to extend the effective range of the firearm, and to do that the shooter has to increase their own ability as well. If someone isn't willing to do that, there's no need for the bigger bang-stick.

I've done almost all of my big game hunting (30+ years worth) with either a .243 Win, .270 Win, or a 7mm Rem mag, and I've yet to feel limited with the effective range of any of them. A fefw friends tried to talk me into moving up to a 7mm RUM, and my question is a simple "Why?". The 7mm Rem Mag has done everything I needed on animals up to the size of elk and bison without a single hickup, so I have no need for more power, more recoil, more blast, and more cost in my shooting.

For those who use the big magnums, I'd suggest shooting out a barrel or two. If you haven't, then you probably don't have the experience to know long range exterior ballistics like you should.

To each their own within their capabilities, but I won't condone shooting past what a person's experience level allows, and the crazy thing is that those with the experience to do it usually don't have to.

Daryl

[ZeroJunk]

It's hazardous to be satirical on a forum.

[Daryl]

It's hazardous to be satirical on a forum.

Especially when one is recalcitrant to the expertise of the deified masses.

But when asked, I tell it like I see it. I would ask no less from others if I asked their opinion.

It validifies the statement, "Be careful what you ask for."

Daryl