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January 23, 2013, 06:47 PM | #26 | |
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..... and Londinistan is a "whole other country" ...... |
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January 23, 2013, 06:50 PM | #27 | |
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January 23, 2013, 07:09 PM | #28 |
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IME, telling a Scot he is an Englishman is akin to calling an Alabama native a Yankee ......
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January 23, 2013, 07:35 PM | #29 |
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VODRyTnc#gid=0
kimio, see if that link takes you to a spreadsheet put together by the Guardian.UK newspaper of firearm homicides as reported by the UN (IIRC). Might be WHO. Apparently some nations do not provide said info.
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January 23, 2013, 10:43 PM | #30 | |
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It can be hard to compare murder and suicide rates of different countries. I think that Great Britain lists only solved murders as "murders", until solved, it's a "suspicious death". I may be wrong though. If two people get in a fight and one dies, is it a murder, manslaughter, or an accidental death? Is dying as a result of doing something "suicidal" a suicide or an accidental death? In some cultures, suicide brings so much shame to the family that authorities will list it as an accidental death to spare the family of the stigma. All I'm saying is take these statistics with a grain of salt. They also try to tell us that the US has one of the highest infant mortality rates of any developed country. The truth is that hospitals in the US save more premature infants than any country in the world and if we fail to save one, it goes on record as an infant death, not a miscarriage. |
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January 24, 2013, 09:00 AM | #31 |
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To me, statistics are for Statists. What difference does it make what happened to "the average guy" someplace else sometime in the past? I'm concerned with me and mine, in the here and now, and our futures.
It is irrelavent to me, personally, what the murder rate, or violent crime rate, or infant mortality rate is for Brittain, Australia, Mexico, Botswana, or whatever: I have been endowed by my Creator with the right to defend myself, and using the likelyhood of having to do so, either arguing for or against is stupid: it is my inalienable right, and not up for debate. To put it in terms that the folks that do not understand that they have a right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness might understand: I'll bet the victims of the narco-terrorists wished they had the right to have a gun on them when the gangs showed up to kidnap, torture and kill them. 'I ain't going out like that.' |
January 24, 2013, 02:44 PM | #32 | |
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The United Kingdom has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the world with 0.07 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants in 2009 compared to the United States' 3.0 (over 40 times higher) and to Germany's 0.21 (3 times higher). |
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January 24, 2013, 05:35 PM | #33 | ||||
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And that is a hypothesis I would disagree with. Quote:
Guns the only real variable?! Alabama Shooter had it right with: Quote:
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If the problem exists in the US, then you can be sure the reasons for and solutions to this will have originated in US society and will be the result of a myriad of factors that have been developing and evolving over decades.
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Last edited by Pond, James Pond; January 26, 2013 at 11:22 AM. |
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January 24, 2013, 08:05 PM | #34 |
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Victory! I managed to bring an anti over to our side
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January 24, 2013, 08:27 PM | #35 |
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Whenever some grabber brings up Europe as a great example of peace and civility, I simply start rattling off their genocides, the last of which only ended in 1999 due to NATO intervention. Europe is hardly a great example of peace and morality. Niether is Asia or Africa or the Middle East. When you start including genocides then North America is actually a very good example of tolerance and peace.
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January 24, 2013, 09:06 PM | #36 | |
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Oh you mean this?
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Yeah, just ignore that because those European people are just too stupid and primitive. ETA: Oh yeah, Kosovo, not on the list.
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January 24, 2013, 09:47 PM | #37 |
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AS, may I ask where you pulled that from?
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January 24, 2013, 10:13 PM | #38 |
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Guns cause suicide? Gun free Japan has twice the suicide rate of the US.
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January 25, 2013, 01:58 AM | #39 | |
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http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/filea...R03-Kosovo.pdf They were looking at practical ways to disarm the natives and were trying to determine if it was worth it. Know what else you should take a look at? This: http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/filea...Collection.pdf A 2001 report heralding the success of disarmament programs in El Salvador, Mali and especially South Africa. If there is a smoking gun to idiocy there it is. Now that the rapists (literally) are in charge of South Africa... lets just say that the US is in no danger of overtaking them in per capita.
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January 25, 2013, 10:14 AM | #40 | |
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I guess it's now considered a worse thing, in some places, to kill your attacker with a gun (that would be recorded as an "intentional homicide committed with a firearm", would it not?) than to be beaten to death by that attacker (that would be a "murder"). I'll keep my gun, thankee. You keep your moral superiority, such as it is..... |
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January 25, 2013, 02:49 PM | #41 | |
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Quote. Unlike post-war Germany, North Americans refuse to acknowledge this genocide. Almost one and a quarter million Kanien'ke:haka (Mohawk) were killed off leaving us only a few thousand survivors. There was a systematic plan to destroy most of the native people by outright murder by bounty hunters and land grabbers, disease through distributing small pox infested blankets, relocation, theft of children who were placed in concentration camps called "residential schools" and assimilation. PS Some times people should look closer to home before slagging of other countries. Mods can delete this if they want. I think its relevant as posters seem happy to have a go at other countries. And talk about how civilized America is. Last edited by manta49; January 26, 2013 at 02:25 PM. |
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January 25, 2013, 04:34 PM | #42 |
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My question still stands, manta......
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January 25, 2013, 05:14 PM | #43 | ||
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United States of America 15,241 Number. 5 Rate. 2009. United Kingdom 724 Number. 1.2 Rate. 2009. Quote:
Last edited by manta49; January 25, 2013 at 05:19 PM. |
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January 26, 2013, 10:31 AM | #44 | |
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Back on topic. What I do find interesting in regard to firearm deaths in the US is the limited number of actual homicides when compared to the number of firearms owned. I do factor out suicides as I believe those individuals would use any means available to them. Call it 15,000 homicides (+/-) annually in a nation of 330 million with who really knows how many firearms? Call it 200 million+/-. Given the state of medical technology today, I'm sure more shooting victims or gunplay participants have been kept alive, reducing the number of actual deaths. I do wonder what the number of GSWs annually is in the US? 4X the deaths? 5X? Dunno.
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January 26, 2013, 12:05 PM | #45 | |||
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To tie this back into the topic, firearms sales were heavy restricted and mostly illegal to tribal Indians. When it came time for them to try to protect their rights under the law they were woefully unprepared to assert them and lost every war resulting in even more cruel treatment. This is an excellent argument against gun control and I am glad you brought it. Who is to say what would have happened if the Indians had been well armed? I am betting history would have been quite different.
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January 26, 2013, 12:29 PM | #46 | |
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But I think there's broader implications. Certainly an armed native population would have put up a better resistance, and this is clear justification for RKBA. But I suspect that in this case what would have occurred is the same result with much higher attrition and a protracted timeline. To raise public awareness would have required active press reporting, and at that time the organized press would have been (was) on the side of the government. No one was reporting the plight of the native population, so there was no social pressure on the government to change policy. The whole of our rights must work together synergistically or they don't work at all. If we loose RKBA then eventually we loose the rest. History is a wheel, unfortunately. |
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January 26, 2013, 02:50 PM | #47 | ||
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QUOTE]Dog the Bounty Hunter actually claims he is Native American. I did not see him stealing any children or handing out blankets but who knows what happens off camera?
[/QUOTE]Earlier post edited. That doesn't change the fact that the treatment of American Indians was similar to the treatment of the Jews in germany on a smaller scale. Quote:
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January 27, 2013, 12:39 AM | #48 | |
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January 27, 2013, 01:16 AM | #49 |
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Discuss this with a woman who was raped and the perp had no handgun. Debate loss for the liberals. Those are the kinds of statistics these conversations leave out. Also, those death rates include imminent self defense fatalities, which in my opinion is not a gun death at all. It's a Darwin one.
Lastly, if two drug dealers/violent crime offenders kill each other, do we really need to include those?
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January 27, 2013, 06:35 AM | #50 | |
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