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Old March 16, 2007, 07:28 AM   #1
ECLIPSE45ACP
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357 magnum

Hey guys , gotta ?. I have been thinking about using 231 instead of 296 for my python. I just hear too many bad things about 296 (squibs, picky crimps,+ they need to be compressed?) 231 will shoot close to 1500 FPS around 8 grains where it takes nearly 20 to push the 1966 FPS velocity with 296 with a
125 JHP. what are your opinions?
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Old March 16, 2007, 07:59 AM   #2
Mike_In_MD
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Only about 5.6 gr of Alliant Bullseye powder is needed to push a 125 JHP at 1500 FPS. You basically get about 375 more rounds per pound of powder compared to W231. That's just something else to think about.


EDIT: Note this load data is wrong see below.

Last edited by Mike_In_MD; March 16, 2007 at 08:31 AM.
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Old March 16, 2007, 08:03 AM   #3
ECLIPSE45ACP
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this may be a dumb question, but am I gonna get the same pop that I do with say a factory remington 125 JHP loading the 231 or the bullseye? Also do I need to use a magnum primer if I am not loading 296?
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Old March 16, 2007, 08:11 AM   #4
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Eclipse,

I made a mistake...it's actually around 8 gr of bullseye to get that velocity. Sorry about that. Also, that load is based on a Fed 200 primer and 1.57 OAL. I hear that W231 is cleaner and that bullseye is a little more accurate. I've only used Bullseye powder shooting target loads in 38, 357 using 148gr LWC, and 45ACP using 180 LSWC. I've never used W231. Fast powders like W231 and Bullseye don't need a magnum primer. Bullseye is faster burning than W231.
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Old March 16, 2007, 08:31 AM   #5
ShootingNut
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Think you will find

powder manufacturers reccomend magnum primers, regardless of powder series used, when loading the .357 magnum.
Personally, I take their advice rather than expierimenting on my own.
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Old March 16, 2007, 09:05 AM   #6
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"powder manufacturers reccomend magnum primers, regardless of powder series used, when loading the .357 magnum.
Personally, I take their advice rather than expierimenting on my own."

This worries me because my speer manual manual shows use of both magnum and regular primers. For slower burning powders like

h110
296
2400

It shows magnum primers were used but for loads like

imr4227
Blue Dot
Bullseye
HP-38

Regular Small pistol primers were used.
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Old March 16, 2007, 10:52 AM   #7
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Speer is weird about primers though. My old Speer manual insisted that magnum primers be used for any ball powders across the board,which is not entirely correct,and is a silly rule for small rifles, IMHO. In my experience magnum primers usually are needed for large charges (say 10grs+) of slow powders for .357 (296,H110,LilGun,2400,BlueDot,AA#9,etc).
You're not going to get top velocities within reasonable pressure limits using any of the faster powders (Bullseye,231,etc). Don't believe the velocity numbers you read in manuals. No one shooting a 4-8" vented barrel .357 revolver is getting a 125gr bullet to 1500fps with 231 or 1900fps with 296 unless they are getting ungodly pressures and sticking cases like crazy. Heck my loads with 296 were sticking cases and flattening primers at about 1500-1550fps,which is 100fps faster than factory published loads. That was way too hot for that powder. If the factories could safely get 1900fps out of a 125 gr bullet in a .357 revolver,we'd see those numbers on their factory loads.
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Old March 16, 2007, 11:36 AM   #8
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Winchester has pretty much dropped production of magnum primers for handguns.

As for 296, it's a fine powder.

I've loaded a lot of it in .357 over the years. Never had a squib, and never needed to use compressed loads.

The crimp needs to be firm, but that's largely the case with any of the slow burning powders suitable for use in a magnum handgun cartridge.
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Old March 16, 2007, 02:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
As for 296, it's a fine powder.

I've loaded a lot of it in .357 over the years. Never had a squib, and never needed to use compressed loads.
Same here , 296 along with H110 have been my most used magnum handgun powder. Accuracy has been very good to excelllent with everything from 125 grain 357 loads all the way up to 300 grain 44 mags. Never had any kind of misfire or squib using any magnum powder , or any powder for that matter.

Just get a good reloading manual , preferably with the exact bullet you using in the data , for example - if you were shooting a lot of Hornady 158XTPs get the Hornady data for 357 magnum using 158 XTPs.

Some of the powder companies have data available as well.
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Old March 16, 2007, 06:49 PM   #10
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may be old school, but I have always liked 296 for 357 mags, very good accuracy and a nice long recoil while getting all the velocity. 231 and other fast burners are just have too "sharp" a recoil (with larger cases) for me.

Now in 38's I will just about always grab the 231 or AA5. Bullseye is also very accurate but I hate cleaning anymore than necessary.
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Old March 17, 2007, 01:32 AM   #11
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I like TightGroup for my "go-to" .357 Magnum range load.
I use 7gr behind a 125gr JHP/JSP. The powder is lit with a Winchester Small Primer. This load is a nice solid 1,100 f.p.s. avg. velocity (measured). Comfortable, yet a magnum feel.

I only use magnum primers if they are called for in the specific load, not based upon the caliber. I've never heard of powder manufactures recommending magnum primers for all .357 Magnum loads. I have heard that specific powder recipies call for magnum primers. For instance, many 2400 recipies do not call for/require a magnum primer where most (if not all) H-110 recipies do.

Bob
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Old March 17, 2007, 09:40 AM   #12
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I have personally posted about 296 & 110..have had excellent results in .357 & 44 mag, but AWFUL results in .38 spl...ONLY squib loads, regardless of primer, load (weight) or crimp. I use mostly Unique now, but I'm also tryimng to get down to one powder for all handguns, plus use it in 12 gauge shotgun.. I'm pretty tired of buying/trying new powders and having parts of containers of powder everywhere...Also, just because you have a magnum doesnt mean you have to shoot magnum loads ALL the time.
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Old March 18, 2007, 01:56 PM   #13
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For .38 and lead .357 I use 231. For jacketed .357 I now use 296 exclusively with a CCI 550 mag primer. Never a problem. If you have squibs, your playing with something you shouldn't with mag powders, namely powder charge. There isn't much room to play. Just load them to published data and shoot.
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Old March 20, 2007, 10:53 PM   #14
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DOGJAW: I've done #3, and it will absolutely stunt your growth, if you know what I mean...
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Old March 20, 2007, 11:12 PM   #15
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Dumb Question

What's a squib?
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Old March 21, 2007, 05:35 AM   #16
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A squib when a bullet that is fired does not have enough force behind it to clear the barrel.

FM12, I was at a good sized party one night located on a farm. The women were lined up at the bathrooms, so the men would go out behind the barn. One aquaintence walked back to the party with eyes as big as baseballs. He did number three. He was stone sober after that.
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